Most over-ranked/under-ranked LACS on USNWR?
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Anonymous
It is the practice of east coast schools to avoid merit aid, largely mirroring long established Ivy League practices, which were rooted in collusion. Many great schools outside the east coast provide merit aid and various other scholarships. Vandy. Duke. W&L (ten percent of the school gets a merit based full ride). Davidson has merit based full rides. Every school wants the best students- and providing generous financial aid in general is a way to get students in the door. You are just framing this as kowtowing to USNWR for merit aid schools. Yes, lower ranked schools need to be more aggressive with merit aid to attract top students. It's only natural and there is nothing wrong with it. Everyone at these schools is better off if they can attract a nice group of very strong students. Duke proivdes merit aid while Bates does not- does that make Bates better than Duke? LOL |
Anonymous
Not really. My DC is headed off to a school that provides merit aid but we will not be getting any. I am happy this school provides merit aid because it means DC will be surrounded by many strong students from middle class/upper middle class backgrounds, some of whom probably got into very top ranked schools. The school provides both need based aid and merit aid. Again, wealthy people don't really care about 10-30k discounts. Perhaps some of the merit aid does go to what you might consider a "very wealthy" kid - so be it. He or she earned it. The savings can be spent on grad school. |
Anonymous
I have no problem with schools that only offer need based aid, but I also have no problem at all with schools that offer merit based aid in addition to need based aid, and as I explained, I think it is very valuable that these schools exist and provide options to students whose families are not poor but also not rich enough where 80k a year makes sense for a bachelors degree. |
Anonymous
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Haverford is overrated. Franklin Marshall is underrated. FM grads actually make more than Haverford and most if not all of the NESCACS.
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/search/?search=Franklin%20and%20Marshall%20College&page=0&sort=threshold_earnings:desc&toggle=institutions |
Anonymous
If you're evaluating colleges based on likelihood of moving into the top 1%, sure, Haverford is a poor choice. |
Anonymous
Collusion? Please explain. Instead of cherry picking the southern schools that you know that offer merit aid, how about doing some research: https://www.newamerica.org/education-policy/higher-education/higher-ed-watch/merit-vs-need-based-aid-what-the-research-says-2/ "research shows that the increasing availability of merit aid has largely come at the expense of low-income students" |
Anonymous
+1. It is cherry picking. The Johnson Scholarship is an aberration at W&L (min 4.13 gpa) and, like the Jefferson at UVA was and is designed to lure the most high stats kids that would otherwise go Ivy. Duke’s is the same but only hands out 7-8 merit scholarships and they, coincidentally, almost always go to URM or first generation who might otherwise go Ivy. The rest pay $82-88k a year as we did. (The Jefferson is not run by UVA but by alums who wanted to offer full rides to scholars heading IVy). That’s why these southern schools do it but those scholarships are few and far between. The argument about Bates is twisted logic. |
Anonymous
This is about another suit against the Ivies for agreeing to no athletic scholarships, but it includes some about the merit aid collusion
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-03-11/ivy-league-athletic-scholarship-lawsuit-exposes-cartel-like-behavior |
Anonymous
https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2022/12/08/following-antitrust-expiration-merit-and-athletic-scholarships-become-an-option-for-the-ivy-league/ It's kind of obvious that any dollar that potentially goes to not low income students doesn't benefit low income students. But there is sooooo much money out there for low income students. Is it the end of the world that some money is used for other priorities? By this logic, all athletic scholarships should be cancelled. Even schools that provide some merit aid seem to primarily provide financial assistance based on need. |
Anonymous
It's not cherry picking. Richmond also does merit scholarships. Not offering merit scholarships is an Ivy thing that became an east coast thing. Merit is much more prevalent outside the east coast and frankly it is probably why schools like Duke and Vandy are right up there with Ivy League schools now, if not superior. With respect to LACs, I think having the ability to offer merit aid is a HUGE long-term advantage now that a degree costs 80k/yr. What these need only schools have created is a situation where half the kids get almost full rides (because they are low income) and half the kids pay full price (because their parents are investment bankers). This is not healthy and the pool of families willing to pay full price will probably shrink as we get towards 100k/yr. Especially when there are reasonable alternatives that may rank slightly lower in USNWR (and with average test scores that are practically the same). |
Anonymous
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Most of the top LACs outside the east coast offer merit aid, including (in descending US News order):
Claremont Mckenna W&L Davidson Grinnell Richmond Colorado Macalester Harvey Mudd Kenyon These schools are well positioned to climb the rankings over the next decade, as their need only competitors limit their addressable market to low income and highly affluent. As they climb the rankings, as many of them have been, they will draw more affluent students who are not focused on merit aid and just want to be part of the excellent student body. Mark my anonymous words. |
Anonymous
That's wishful thinking. Merit aid is not tied to income, so nothing saying it brings more MC families in. Merit aid is something schools offer when they are trying to grow their applications, but by design it's a limited time offer (at least they'd like it to be). A school like Reed has exited that phase, and can focus all their aid into need. The next level is to offer even more need based aid, like packages with zero loans, and to more income levels. |
Anonymous
Nothing saying it will bring more middle class families in but... logic! If someone is a mega-millionaire, do you think they care about saving $20k a year on their kid's education? Do you think they would turn down Williams because they got $35k from Dickinson? of course not. Merit aid appeals to families for whom $50-100K is a lot of money and for whom that kind of money is so important they are willing to accept a lower "prestige" degree. Rich people apply ED and that is half the class. They are price insensitive and just want their kid to go to the best school possible. Not so rich people evaluate offers RD. There are some exceptions where rich people are swayed by the merit award, but I think it's odd to argue that these sums of money matter more to people who have a lot of money as opposed to people who don't have a lot of money. LOL that "Reed has exited that phase." Reed is dog poop compared with the list of schools that offer merit aid provided above. Reed's test score profile is inferior to all of them. The merit aid schools will win long-term because there will be no reason for top students to pay a premium for what will be a non-premium product. |
Anonymous
I think the Northwestern LACs in general are very underrated. I am convinced it’s because of continued antagonism towards Reed. |
Anonymous
| I do think that the focus of popular universities is moving west and south. |