How hard will Blair's Functions class be for a kid who currently finds Algebra 2 "easy"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by the functions class. If magnet precalc is an average of 45 minutes of class and 60 minutes of HW for 270 school days, that’s 472.5 hours of math. Then if functions is 45 minutes of class and 4 hours of HW for 180 days that’s 855 hours. Why so much more time? Is there additional content? Or are 14 year olds just really inefficient at HW? Or are people exaggerating?

For starters, Functions is compacted Precalculus. It covers everything Precalculus covers (supposedly) but in two semesters instead of three semesters. The magnet precalculus class supposedly is compacted Hon. Algebra 2 and Precalculus. So Functions covers two years of honors math in one year.

DC took functions, so I don't know how much time precalculus takes for homework but functions involves a lot of proofs and is a very hard class. It probably does average 15-20 hours of homework per week to get an A for most kids. It's designed to weed out students who aren't very serious about math. Yes, 14-year-olds are inefficient at homework, especially since most have never before had to do proofs like that.

According to DC, more than half of the magnet kids are more interested in biology and chemistry than in math, physics, or computer science. Unless your child is in the latter group there is no reason to put them through the functions class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by the functions class. If magnet precalc is an average of 45 minutes of class and 60 minutes of HW for 270 school days, that’s 472.5 hours of math. Then if functions is 45 minutes of class and 4 hours of HW for 180 days that’s 855 hours. Why so much more time? Is there additional content? Or are 14 year olds just really inefficient at HW? Or are people exaggerating?

For starters, Functions is compacted Precalculus. It covers everything Precalculus covers (supposedly) but in two semesters instead of three semesters. The magnet precalculus class supposedly is compacted Hon. Algebra 2 and Precalculus. So Functions covers two years of honors math in one year.

DC took functions, so I don't know how much time precalculus takes for homework but functions involves a lot of proofs and is a very hard class. It probably does average 15-20 hours of homework per week to get an A for most kids. It's designed to weed out students who aren't very serious about math. Yes, 14-year-olds are inefficient at homework, especially since most have never before had to do proofs like that.

According to DC, more than half of the magnet kids are more interested in biology and chemistry than in math, physics, or computer science. Unless your child is in the latter group there is no reason to put them through the functions class.

Would regular magnet precalc cover the same material like proofs in more time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by the functions class. If magnet precalc is an average of 45 minutes of class and 60 minutes of HW for 270 school days, that’s 472.5 hours of math. Then if functions is 45 minutes of class and 4 hours of HW for 180 days that’s 855 hours. Why so much more time? Is there additional content? Or are 14 year olds just really inefficient at HW? Or are people exaggerating?

For starters, Functions is compacted Precalculus. It covers everything Precalculus covers (supposedly) but in two semesters instead of three semesters. The magnet precalculus class supposedly is compacted Hon. Algebra 2 and Precalculus. So Functions covers two years of honors math in one year.

DC took functions, so I don't know how much time precalculus takes for homework but functions involves a lot of proofs and is a very hard class. It probably does average 15-20 hours of homework per week to get an A for most kids. It's designed to weed out students who aren't very serious about math. Yes, 14-year-olds are inefficient at homework, especially since most have never before had to do proofs like that.

According to DC, more than half of the magnet kids are more interested in biology and chemistry than in math, physics, or computer science. Unless your child is in the latter group there is no reason to put them through the functions class.

Would regular magnet precalc cover the same material like proofs in more time?

The teachers say it’s the same content, but DC who dropped back to Precalc said Functions is not just more, it’s harder. I think they don’t have time to cover everything in class, so there is some amount of self teaching.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone had a kid who took precalc in 8th? If so, what did they do? Functions (figuring more content), or is there an option of moving to Analysis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by the functions class. If magnet precalc is an average of 45 minutes of class and 60 minutes of HW for 270 school days, that’s 472.5 hours of math. Then if functions is 45 minutes of class and 4 hours of HW for 180 days that’s 855 hours. Why so much more time? Is there additional content? Or are 14 year olds just really inefficient at HW? Or are people exaggerating?

For starters, Functions is compacted Precalculus. It covers everything Precalculus covers (supposedly) but in two semesters instead of three semesters. The magnet precalculus class supposedly is compacted Hon. Algebra 2 and Precalculus. So Functions covers two years of honors math in one year.

DC took functions, so I don't know how much time precalculus takes for homework but functions involves a lot of proofs and is a very hard class. It probably does average 15-20 hours of homework per week to get an A for most kids. It's designed to weed out students who aren't very serious about math. Yes, 14-year-olds are inefficient at homework, especially since most have never before had to do proofs like that.

According to DC, more than half of the magnet kids are more interested in biology and chemistry than in math, physics, or computer science. Unless your child is in the latter group there is no reason to put them through the functions class.

Would regular magnet precalc cover the same material like proofs in more time?

The magnet teachers say it does. Since DC took functions, I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to be invited to take functions and about a quarter of the invited kids drop down to precalculus

I am wondering how a student be invited to take functions? Will there be an assessment in the beginning of the school year? My DC is taking H. Geometry in their 8th grade. Without taking Algebra 2, I am wondering if they would be considered / tested at least? Thank you in advance!

Their teacher might recommend them. (That is the case at TPMS). Or, they may be recommended during the summer camp experience.

Presumably they also have to indicate that they want to do it when they register for courses? I think mine could be recommended but I encouraged him to select precalculus instead. Is there a chance he could be recommended regardless?

If he's recommended for functions you can put him in precalculus. If he hasn't had algebra, it's not likely he will be recommended for functions, and it would be very hard for him to be successful in that class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to be invited to take functions and about a quarter of the invited kids drop down to precalculus

I am wondering how a student be invited to take functions? Will there be an assessment in the beginning of the school year? My DC is taking H. Geometry in their 8th grade. Without taking Algebra 2, I am wondering if they would be considered / tested at least? Thank you in advance!

Their teacher might recommend them. (That is the case at TPMS). Or, they may be recommended during the summer camp experience.

Presumably they also have to indicate that they want to do it when they register for courses? I think mine could be recommended but I encouraged him to select precalculus instead. Is there a chance he could be recommended regardless?

If he's recommended for functions you can put him in precalculus. If he hasn't had algebra, it's not likely he will be recommended for functions, and it would be very hard for him to be successful in that class.

You must mean algebra 2? He’s sailed through magnet geometry, but I don’t see any reason to push him beyond the already accelerated track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had a kid who took precalc in 8th? If so, what did they do? Functions (figuring more content), or is there an option of moving to Analysis?

Asker: Is your kid on this track?

This is extremely rare -- less than 1 kid per middle school school per year, on average. No one else's experience would be relevant; you need to meet with the school and teacher.
That's either Algebra 1 in 5th (I know 1 kids across multiple schools who did this), or doing a quick Geom in the summer (because of the meme that Geometry is a waste of time dead-end that no one needs to learn).

Skipping HS precalc depends a lot on whether the kid truly mastered precalc (like, qualified for USAJMO, or AOPS Academy / Alcumus scores vouches for mastery), or skated by in a rush and should use 9th grade to solidify the understanding in Functions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It allows kids to take higher level science and math electives.

You mean they don't have those at college?

Students who are less advanced before college do not have enough time in 4 years to take more advanced classes in college.

Um, no - colleges often make students take their own versions of certain courses anyway. And besides, what is the race headed towards? Higher salary? Grad school (when everyone works at their own pace anyway)? To what extent is speed sacrificing depth and mastery?

It's simple "math". Every course you take before college opens up room in the schedule to take another course deeper into the track or an elective. Colleges often *don't* make students take their own versions, especially students who are highly qualified.
No matter what your student does, some students will spend college time taking courses your student already completed in high school. Maybe calculus, maybe physics, maybe Spanish. And vice versa for other other students.

Some students master material faster than others, and are motivated to spend more hours per week, and more months per year, in study. This is a magnet thread. Some of these kids will go to Harvard and in their first-year take a 2-semester course that packs in 4-semesters worth of Honors curricula in Linear Algebra, Group Theory, Real Analysis, and Complex Analysis.

I would never recommend skimming over a course to rush ahead, but if a student can do well in the material faster, or as an extra elective, then they can open up more opportunity in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had a kid who took precalc in 8th? If so, what did they do? Functions (figuring more content), or is there an option of moving to Analysis?

Asker: Is your kid on this track?

This is extremely rare -- less than 1 kid per middle school school per year, on average. No one else's experience would be relevant; you need to meet with the school and teacher.
That's either Algebra 1 in 5th (I know 1 kids across multiple schools who did this), or doing a quick Geom in the summer (because of the meme that Geometry is a waste of time dead-end that no one needs to learn).

Skipping HS precalc depends a lot on whether the kid truly mastered precalc (like, qualified for USAJMO, or AOPS Academy / Alcumus scores vouches for mastery), or skated by in a rush and should use 9th grade to solidify the understanding in Functions.

PP here,

I'm the parent of a seventh grader, not in MCPS. He does his math through AOPS, and he could be on this path, or he could take a detour if that makes more sense.

Of course, he could also not get into Blair. I recognize that. I'm just curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had a kid who took precalc in 8th? If so, what did they do? Functions (figuring more content), or is there an option of moving to Analysis?

Asker: Is your kid on this track?

This is extremely rare -- less than 1 kid per middle school school per year, on average. No one else's experience would be relevant; you need to meet with the school and teacher.
That's either Algebra 1 in 5th (I know 1 kids across multiple schools who did this), or doing a quick Geom in the summer (because of the meme that Geometry is a waste of time dead-end that no one needs to learn).

Skipping HS precalc depends a lot on whether the kid truly mastered precalc (like, qualified for USAJMO, or AOPS Academy / Alcumus scores vouches for mastery), or skated by in a rush and should use 9th grade to solidify the understanding in Functions.

Like said above in one of the posts, function teaches you proof, which is a critical component for math and physics paths. The closest test material that I can think of for middle schooler is the UMD high school math contest Part II. Have your kid working on a set and check against the answer key to see if he is ready. https://mathcomp.math.umd.edu/past-contests/

You’ll definitely need to talk to Mr O and Mr Schwartz and probably take a test.

PP here,

I'm the parent of a seventh grader, not in MCPS. He does his math through AOPS, and he could be on this path, or he could take a detour if that makes more sense.

Of course, he could also not get into Blair. I recognize that. I'm just curious.

[Anonymous]

Why would a 7th grader be on this thread?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It allows kids to take higher level science and math electives.

You mean they don't have those at college?

Students who are less advanced before college do not have enough time in 4 years to take more advanced classes in college.

Um, no - colleges often make students take their own versions of certain courses anyway. And besides, what is the race headed towards? Higher salary? Grad school (when everyone works at their own pace anyway)? To what extent is speed sacrificing depth and mastery?

It's simple "math". Every course you take before college opens up room in the schedule to take another course deeper into the track or an elective. Colleges often *don't* make students take their own versions, especially students who are highly qualified.
No matter what your student does, some students will spend college time taking courses your student already completed in high school. Maybe calculus, maybe physics, maybe Spanish. And vice versa for other other students.

Some students master material faster than others, and are motivated to spend more hours per week, and more months per year, in study. This is a magnet thread. Some of these kids will go to Harvard and in their first-year take a 2-semester course that packs in 4-semesters worth of Honors curricula in Linear Algebra, Group Theory, Real Analysis, and Complex Analysis.

I would never recommend skimming over a course to rush ahead, but if a student can do well in the material faster, or as an extra elective, then they can open up more opportunity in college.

This is a magnet thread... duh yeah. that's why the question. what's the hurry? better to go in depth than be in a hurry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It allows kids to take higher level science and math electives.

You mean they don't have those at college?

Students who are less advanced before college do not have enough time in 4 years to take more advanced classes in college.

Um, no - colleges often make students take their own versions of certain courses anyway. And besides, what is the race headed towards? Higher salary? Grad school (when everyone works at their own pace anyway)? To what extent is speed sacrificing depth and mastery?

It's simple "math". Every course you take before college opens up room in the schedule to take another course deeper into the track or an elective. Colleges often *don't* make students take their own versions, especially students who are highly qualified.
No matter what your student does, some students will spend college time taking courses your student already completed in high school. Maybe calculus, maybe physics, maybe Spanish. And vice versa for other other students.

Some students master material faster than others, and are motivated to spend more hours per week, and more months per year, in study. This is a magnet thread. Some of these kids will go to Harvard and in their first-year take a 2-semester course that packs in 4-semesters worth of Honors curricula in Linear Algebra, Group Theory, Real Analysis, and Complex Analysis.

I would never recommend skimming over a course to rush ahead, but if a student can do well in the material faster, or as an extra elective, then they can open up more opportunity in college.

This is a magnet thread... duh yeah. that's why the question. what's the hurry? better to go in depth than be in a hurry!

Function is more in-depth and faster paced at the same time than pre-calc. And from parent point of view, Blair magnet does sometimes save you $$. A lot of the alumni entering prestigious colleges (e.g., UC Berkley) can finish undergrad courses in 3 years - practically saving parents 50K+ bucks.

[Anonymous]

It's irritating that a 7th grade parent, not even in MCPS, not to mention not even accepted at the magnet, comes on here asking specific questions about her child and acting like her child is already in and not revealing her child's situation until many people have taken the time to respond.