Help me understand the logic behind Weighting All Tasks/Assessments so heavily

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the other problems of the 90/10 split is that some classes end up having almost all assignments practice and just a few all tasks/assessments. If a math class does a ~weekly "exit ticket" that is classified as an assessment, that is great. There are enough grades in the book to cushion. If there are just 2-3 small assessments in a quarter and then 1-2 bigger county formatives, then being a little slower to pick up a new concept can suddenly derail a grade. Teachers that classify too much as practice/prep aren't ultimately doing a student any favors. I'd much prefer a 70/30 split or (similar to what we used to have) 10% homework/20-30%classwork or formative assignments/60-70% summatives or tests)

Now no more than 7 hw and 12 all task assignments are allowed at my school. I think there should be twice as much practice as assessment if the purpose of practice is preparation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how it works in most university level classes. Homework is essential to do, but worth a small percentage of grades. It makes sense to me, as tests actually measure a students ability. On homework, you expect the student gets some help.

Again, homework is not the only thing that falls under the prep/practice category. There is a good chunk of classwork (such as warm-ups) that also fall under this category.

Grades are supposed to be a measure of student understanding of content. Why should practice and preparation, even done in class, be part of the 90% category? We are grading knowledge, not behavior. In this age of everyone get a trophy, the idea that classwork is only worth doing if it “earns points” has crept into student (and parent) thinking, and it is a real problem. Students shouldn’t need an extrinsic motivation (like points) to do what they need to do to learn.

+100. The acquisition of knowledge is not about grades. Positive grades is the motivation, along with the subsequent things that can come with that achievement. If you want those things, do the work that is needed for YOU to achieve the outcome YOU desire. These is a key lesson on independence that folks expect students to learn and put into practice as they progress through school levels.

[Anonymous]

Structural Mass Grade Inflation by Policy and Algorithm. MCPS measures and policies are designed to raise mean GPAs, ensure very, very few students fail, all students are promoted to the next grade, and that most high schools maintain graduation rates above 90%. Here is how the 10% category, coupled with other changes over the past 5 years, ensures all students are likely to pass: (1) A 100% is awarded to all submitted work in this category, even work with just a student's name on it. Therefore, this weighted category will average 100% unless a student make zero attempt at the assignment. (2) All unsubmitted work in the 90% All Task category receives a grade of 50% and no work is supposed to have reduction in grades due to lateness. But once a category has been weighted at 90%, the weighting does not matter; what matters is the points assigned to a particular assignment. This, too, the district tries to influence by saying no one assignment shall count for more than 20% of the final quarterly grade. (3) These changes, coupled with the fact that attendance can no longer impact a students' grade in any meaningful way, means that all students can receive a quarterly grade of at least 60% (50% + 10%). (4) In the rare event that a student does not have a grade of 60% and the teacher refuses to acquiesce to administrative, counselor, and parental pressure, the administrator can override the grade and award an Incomplete. (5) Taken with the "Grading Pattern" scheme, a student could earn a 89.5% (A) first quarter, an 59.5% (D) the second quarter, and still receive a grade of a B, despite their average being only a 74.5%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:this is how a lot of college courses are graded, especially STEM related classes. may as well get them ready early

10% HW
90% tests/quizes/final

+1. I also disagree with the comment that MCPS is preparing the kids well. What matters most in universities / colleges are finals. Homework was never made important in a serious college. Too much cheating / plagiarism. Frats and Sororities all had stacks of prior Homework that the kids were copying. Typically Community Colleges or low-end schools weigh the homework higher than finals.

But, if the parents are all for it, so be it. Their kids will just get hammered.

Finals only matter in some universities/colleges and then only some classes. I had two university professors who told everyone their grade before finals and then let you choose if you wanted to sit for the final. The reason being that unless you were within 2-3 points of the next highest grade you weren’t likely to get a higher grade regardless of how you did on the final. However, doing bad could risk your current grade. Made for better classes because students worked hard all semester so as to not need to take the final.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Structural Mass Grade Inflation by Policy and Algorithm. MCPS measures and policies are designed to raise mean GPAs, ensure very, very few students fail, all students are promoted to the next grade, and that most high schools maintain graduation rates above 90%. Here is how the 10% category, coupled with other changes over the past 5 years, ensures all students are likely to pass: (1) A 100% is awarded to all submitted work in this category, even work with just a student's name on it. Therefore, this weighted category will average 100% unless a student make zero attempt at the assignment. (2) All unsubmitted work in the 90% All Task category receives a grade of 50% and no work is supposed to have reduction in grades due to lateness. But once a category has been weighted at 90%, the weighting does not matter; what matters is the points assigned to a particular assignment. This, too, the district tries to influence by saying no one assignment shall count for more than 20% of the final quarterly grade. (3) These changes, coupled with the fact that attendance can no longer impact a students' grade in any meaningful way, means that all students can receive a quarterly grade of at least 60% (50% + 10%). (4) In the rare event that a student does not have a grade of 60% and the teacher refuses to acquiesce to administrative, counselor, and parental pressure, the administrator can override the grade and award an Incomplete. (5) Taken with the "Grading Pattern" scheme, a student could earn a 89.5% (A) first quarter, an 59.5% (D) the second quarter, and still receive a grade of a B, despite their average being only a 74.5%.

Actually, if you earn 50% in the All Tasks Category and 100% for just turning in assignments in the Practice and Prep category, you will have a 55% overall grade. This is calculated by 0.9(50) + 0.1(100) = 55%

This is not passing, but pretty close to the 59.5% that is required to earn a D. In order to earn a D in the class, the student must have a 55% in the All Task Category. This is calculated by 0.9(55) + 0.1(100) = 59.5% which rounds to a D. If they earn the D in the second quarter, they can just skip the first quarter and pass the semester with no passing grades.

Overall, the student does not need to actually earn a passing grade on anything to pass a class in MCPS (as long as they turn in all the practice and prep assignments which are grades for completion and not accuracy). I would imagine most students have passed something that was graded for accuracy, but it is not a requirement.

Can you imagine taking Algebra 2 after "passing" Algebra 1 with a D in the second and fourth quarters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One thing to point out about the "practice/preparation" section is also sometimes called "completion". For at least some types of classes, the grade is simply did the student try all the problems, NOT did the student successfully complete the problems. The grade is often (but not always and not in every class) an "all or nothing" grade; you either tried and get full credit, or you didn't and get no credit (or half credit depending on the grading policy of the individual teacher or school; there is some debate about whether not turning in an assignment at all should get credit, with teachers generally opposed to giving half credit where no effort has been shown, while admin pushes for giving half credit. Again mileage may vary with individual teachers and schools.

So one problem with counting the practice/prep/completion as a higher percent is that might require teachers to increase the workload by actually grading the assignment. Back in the good old days, when admin let teachers teach, that was standard. But now, with hundreds of hours of "unfunded mandates" for various admin-required paperwork foisted upon teacher's time, few teachers have the time or bandwidth to grade daily assignments and get them back quickly. Hence 10%; it can AT MOST change a grade by a letter.

Think of it as simply the 10% bonus for showing the teacher on a daily/regular basis that you are at least trying.

The nice thing about the completion category is that a student can at least earn a D if they just submit all their assignments. That way a student who is really having a hard time learning the material can pass because they tried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So at the high school level, MCPS weights All Tasks/Assessments at 90% and Practice/Prep at 10%. Not sure if this applies at MS as well.

I understand the motive behind this is to reduce the impact and influence that homework has on a student's grade, as I understand some in MCPS have come to believe that requiring homework for all students is unfair and unequitable, since not all students have the stability and support at home to do homework daily.

But 90% vs 10% seems unreasonably weighted, because if you don't practice, how can you expect to do well on assessments?

And unfortunately, the message kids receive (sometimes from teachers themselves!!!) is that they don't really need to worry about missing or skipping practice/prep assignments "since it's only 10%" of their grade. And with the automatic 50% rule, not doing those homework assignments doesn't tank their grade like if they were getting 0s for missing those assignments.

Even if I were to buy into the premise that classwork and assessments matter more than homework, the current weights seem off and self-defeating, since consistent prep and practice is key to developing and demonstrating mastery on assessments. So why not do 80% All Tasks/Assessments and 20% Prep/Practice. Or why not 70/30 split?

Just looking for context and history here behind this decision and what evidence was used to decide on the 90/10 split.

I think it's great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the other problems of the 90/10 split is that some classes end up having almost all assignments practice and just a few all tasks/assessments. If a math class does a ~weekly "exit ticket" that is classified as an assessment, that is great. There are enough grades in the book to cushion. If there are just 2-3 small assessments in a quarter and then 1-2 bigger county formatives, then being a little slower to pick up a new concept can suddenly derail a grade. Teachers that classify too much as practice/prep aren't ultimately doing a student any favors. I'd much prefer a 70/30 split or (similar to what we used to have) 10% homework/20-30%classwork or formative assignments/60-70% summatives or tests)

Now no more than 7 hw and 12 all task assignments are allowed at my school. I think there should be twice as much practice as assessment if the purpose of practice is preparation.

My school has the same policy. I agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the other problems of the 90/10 split is that some classes end up having almost all assignments practice and just a few all tasks/assessments. If a math class does a ~weekly "exit ticket" that is classified as an assessment, that is great. There are enough grades in the book to cushion. If there are just 2-3 small assessments in a quarter and then 1-2 bigger county formatives, then being a little slower to pick up a new concept can suddenly derail a grade. Teachers that classify too much as practice/prep aren't ultimately doing a student any favors. I'd much prefer a 70/30 split or (similar to what we used to have) 10% homework/20-30%classwork or formative assignments/60-70% summatives or tests)

Now no more than 7 hw and 12 all task assignments are allowed at my school. I think there should be twice as much practice as assessment if the purpose of practice is preparation.

Do they prohibit you from giving more practice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the other problems of the 90/10 split is that some classes end up having almost all assignments practice and just a few all tasks/assessments. If a math class does a ~weekly "exit ticket" that is classified as an assessment, that is great. There are enough grades in the book to cushion. If there are just 2-3 small assessments in a quarter and then 1-2 bigger county formatives, then being a little slower to pick up a new concept can suddenly derail a grade. Teachers that classify too much as practice/prep aren't ultimately doing a student any favors. I'd much prefer a 70/30 split or (similar to what we used to have) 10% homework/20-30%classwork or formative assignments/60-70% summatives or tests)

Now no more than 7 hw and 12 all task assignments are allowed at my school. I think there should be twice as much practice as assessment if the purpose of practice is preparation.

Do they prohibit you from giving more practice?

At my school --- Yes. The math teachers wish they could assign more homework as the practice of problems is what prepares students for tests and quizzes. By giving the students homework, the teacher is guiding their study. But they are not allowed to do so, and the students struggle on the tests.

[Anonymous]

I guess I am the outlier. My kid, finds HS super easy (1 AP in 9th, 4 in 10th, 4 in 11th, all other classes honors when possible), and skips the homework. He does the assessments/tests with little to no studying and definitely no homework and has straight As (because there is no A+ or A-). Our child sees the homework as busy work and a waste of time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So at the high school level, MCPS weights All Tasks/Assessments at 90% and Practice/Prep at 10%. Not sure if this applies at MS as well.

I understand the motive behind this is to reduce the impact and influence that homework has on a student's grade, as I understand some in MCPS have come to believe that requiring homework for all students is unfair and unequitable, since not all students have the stability and support at home to do homework daily.

But 90% vs 10% seems unreasonably weighted, because if you don't practice, how can you expect to do well on assessments?

And unfortunately, the message kids receive (sometimes from teachers themselves!!!) is that they don't really need to worry about missing or skipping practice/prep assignments "since it's only 10%" of their grade. And with the automatic 50% rule, not doing those homework assignments doesn't tank their grade like if they were getting 0s for missing those assignments.

Even if I were to buy into the premise that classwork and assessments matter more than homework, the current weights seem off and self-defeating, since consistent prep and practice is key to developing and demonstrating mastery on assessments. So why not do 80% All Tasks/Assessments and 20% Prep/Practice. Or why not 70/30 split?

Just looking for context and history here behind this decision and what evidence was used to decide on the 90/10 split.

Seems like a fine policy to me. My kids have plenty of homework. They didn't always do it in ES since it was often unnecessary and amounted to busy work, but by MS they seem to benefit from it and are doing great.

Huh? You didn't even address the issues raised by the policy but just came to say it was great and that they benefitted from homework, which pretty much contradicts the 10% weight they're putting on it. If it's so beneficial, it would factor into their grade more.

Not the PP but tt does factor into the grade more. By doing the homework you improve your understanding of the material and do better on the test.

OP here. You're right, in theory, and with mature, thoughtful people, that logic holds up.

But kids aren't making that calculation. And sadly, the source of this is coming from teachers. When they miss or neglect to turn in assignments in the prep/practice category, teachers tell them NOT to worry about making it up and turning it in, "because it's only 10% of their grade." I've literally had arguments with my kids over this who parrot this exact logic. If the weight was more than 10%, kids would know to take it more seriously, and honestly, they're not wrong.

If it's that important, it really should be weighted as more than 10% of your grade. Frankly, I don't understand why participation isn't factored into grades as it is in college either.

It is unfortunate that teachers are putting that message out there. I WILL say, that with the MCPS grading policy now, things are just so different. At the high school where I work, we can only make deadlines at the interim and the end of quarter. We are to make the Wednesday before each of these deadlines an “academic support day” where students can do late work. Some students have 8 missing assignments. I do tell them to prioritize the all task assignments FIRST. The point of the academic support day, let’s be real, is just to improve grades, NOT improve learning. Sure, a student can complete the practice/prep assignments that would have helped them to prepare for the test two weeks ago that they bombed, and now they can earn a 90% on them, but if they’re just trying to bring their grade up, which is the message MCPS is sending with all their grading policies, then the all task are the priority. And not surprisingly, the students struggle to complete the missing all task assignments because they didn’t pay attention at the time they were assigned, or do the practice/prep to prepare. Of course, we as teachers are supposed to spend our time sitting with them one on one reteaching everything so that they can pass/improve their grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how it works in most university level classes. Homework is essential to do, but worth a small percentage of grades. It makes sense to me, as tests actually measure a students ability. On homework, you expect the student gets some help.

Again, homework is not the only thing that falls under the prep/practice category. There is a good chunk of classwork (such as warm-ups) that also fall under this category.

Grades are supposed to be a measure of student understanding of content. Why should practice and preparation, even done in class, be part of the 90% category? We are grading knowledge, not behavior. In this age of everyone get a trophy, the idea that classwork is only worth doing if it “earns points” has crept into student (and parent) thinking, and it is a real problem. Students shouldn’t need an extrinsic motivation (like points) to do what they need to do to learn.

I don't agree. The soft skills of good attendance, meeting deadlines, etc should be part of the grade. There are very few students who can skip their classes and not do any outside of class preparation and still get a good grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the other problems of the 90/10 split is that some classes end up having almost all assignments practice and just a few all tasks/assessments. If a math class does a ~weekly "exit ticket" that is classified as an assessment, that is great. There are enough grades in the book to cushion. If there are just 2-3 small assessments in a quarter and then 1-2 bigger county formatives, then being a little slower to pick up a new concept can suddenly derail a grade. Teachers that classify too much as practice/prep aren't ultimately doing a student any favors. I'd much prefer a 70/30 split or (similar to what we used to have) 10% homework/20-30%classwork or formative assignments/60-70% summatives or tests)

Now no more than 7 hw and 12 all task assignments are allowed at my school. I think there should be twice as much practice as assessment if the purpose of practice is preparation.

Do they prohibit you from giving more practice?

At my school --- Yes. The math teachers wish they could assign more homework as the practice of problems is what prepares students for tests and quizzes. By giving the students homework, the teacher is guiding their study. But they are not allowed to do so, and the students struggle on the tests.

Are you prohibited fro giving more or are you prohibited from counting more than that quantity towards students grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One thing to point out about the "practice/preparation" section is also sometimes called "completion". For at least some types of classes, the grade is simply did the student try all the problems, NOT did the student successfully complete the problems. The grade is often (but not always and not in every class) an "all or nothing" grade; you either tried and get full credit, or you didn't and get no credit (or half credit depending on the grading policy of the individual teacher or school; there is some debate about whether not turning in an assignment at all should get credit, with teachers generally opposed to giving half credit where no effort has been shown, while admin pushes for giving half credit. Again mileage may vary with individual teachers and schools.

So one problem with counting the practice/prep/completion as a higher percent is that might require teachers to increase the workload by actually grading the assignment. Back in the good old days, when admin let teachers teach, that was standard. But now, with hundreds of hours of "unfunded mandates" for various admin-required paperwork foisted upon teacher's time, few teachers have the time or bandwidth to grade daily assignments and get them back quickly. Hence 10%; it can AT MOST change a grade by a letter.

Think of it as simply the 10% bonus for showing the teacher on a daily/regular basis that you are at least trying.

The nice thing about the completion category is that a student can at least earn a D if they just submit all their assignments. That way a student who is really having a hard time learning the material can pass because they tried.

No, they can't. As explained above they would get a 55% which is an E.