Macalester vs Kenyon vs Oberlin for science major

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

Macalester has an urban campus, not suburban. It is in the city of St. Paul.

Yes, Macalester is very white, 54% white. But it is more diverse than either Oberlin (61% whire) or Kenyon (66% white) so I doubt that’s the reason your kids didn’t like macalester if they wound up picking an even less diverse school. Also, Minneapolis-St Paul are a lot more diverse than Gambier or oberlin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

Thank you! I was reading PPs post thinking hmm that’s weird that mac is whiter than oberlin or Kenyon. surely an urban school in a diverse city like MSP is more diverse than a school in rural Ohio. So I see the PP is just wrong! 😆

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

[Anonymous]

We just got back from visiting Kenyon as our STEM DD got in RD. Unfortunately, she was rejected from Oberlin, which was her top choice, mainly for the sciences (regret not having done ED, when she would have had a chance).

She was choosing between Kenyon anc Bryn Mawr. We liked both campuses. But chose BM for three reasons. 1. Kenyon didn't seem to emphasize STEM. All we heard about was writing, which was fine, but not what DD wants to do. 2. Kenyon truly is in the middle of nowhere. There is the college bookstore and a coffee shop and post office that makes up the town, and then literally nothing for miles. We drove on a country road for nearly an hour before we got there. Calling it isolated would be an understatement. 3. I recognize it might be just who we met, but the students were much preppier and maybe frattier (although not full on bro): than we expected. I'm guessing that they draw heavily from Midwestern suburbs.

I'm sure Kenyon is the right place for lots of students, but we felt maybe not the best place for our STEM DD coming from DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oberlin produced 4 Nobel prize winners. I believe 3 were in sciences and the 2021 one in economics. The first was by Robert Millikan. He was the first president of Caltech. Oberlin is hard to beat.

Some little known Oberlin STEM history:

The origin of Oberlin's big endowment was a gift from Charles Martin in the 1800s. While a student at Oberlin, he researched better ways to extract aluminum from ore. His process worked and it powered the growth of ALCOA. Martin gave generously to Oberlin, with much of the current endowment attributable to his gift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

Thank you! I was reading PPs post thinking hmm that’s weird that mac is whiter than oberlin or Kenyon. surely an urban school in a diverse city like MSP is more diverse than a school in rural Ohio. So I see the PP is just wrong! 😆

Macalaster is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I guess you can get picky about how to define urban vs suburban. But GW or NYU or NEU type urban it is not. When you’re on campus you don’t feel like you are in the middle of a big city. Or even a college town.What’s walkable feels suburban, even if it’s with St Paul. I view this as a plus. It has a discrete campus, which many truly urban schools do not.

It also feels very white. That was my impression and both DCs (visited once with each). It doesn’t matter how diverse the surrounding area is. Most kids at these colleges are not from the surrounding areas. The reported numbers seem off for Mac, but they have a high international population, so I think they get counted as “international” and not white. Kenyon and Oberlin— also very white. None of these SlACs are attracting racial diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just got back from visiting Kenyon as our STEM DD got in RD. Unfortunately, she was rejected from Oberlin, which was her top choice, mainly for the sciences (regret not having done ED, when she would have had a chance).

She was choosing between Kenyon anc Bryn Mawr. We liked both campuses. But chose BM for three reasons. 1. Kenyon didn't seem to emphasize STEM. All we heard about was writing, which was fine, but not what DD wants to do. 2. Kenyon truly is in the middle of nowhere. There is the college bookstore and a coffee shop and post office that makes up the town, and then literally nothing for miles. We drove on a country road for nearly an hour before we got there. Calling it isolated would be an understatement. 3. I recognize it might be just who we met, but the students were much preppier and maybe frattier (although not full on bro): than we expected. I'm guessing that they draw heavily from Midwestern suburbs.

I'm sure Kenyon is the right place for lots of students, but we felt maybe not the best place for our STEM DD coming from DC.

Good decision. I have 2 STEM kids who along the way in REUs and grad school have met a few BM students, but no one from Kenyon (this came up because both strongly considered going to Kenyon). DS's girlfriend went to BM and raves about it - good luck to your DD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

Thank you! I was reading PPs post thinking hmm that’s weird that mac is whiter than oberlin or Kenyon. surely an urban school in a diverse city like MSP is more diverse than a school in rural Ohio. So I see the PP is just wrong! 😆

Macalaster is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I guess you can get picky about how to define urban vs suburban. But GW or NYU or NEU type urban it is not. When you’re on campus you don’t feel like you are in the middle of a big city. Or even a college town.What’s walkable feels suburban, even if it’s with St Paul. I view this as a plus. It has a discrete campus, which many truly urban schools do not.

It also feels very white. That was my impression and both DCs (visited once with each). It doesn’t matter how diverse the surrounding area is. Most kids at these colleges are not from the surrounding areas. The reported numbers seem off for Mac, but they have a high international population, so I think they get counted as “international” and not white. Kenyon and Oberlin— also very white. None of these SlACs are attracting racial diversity.

Large international student numbers at a SLAC should be a red flag. Most colleges top off the class with some full pay foreign students to bring in some extra cash. Colleges all like $$$. But when you start to see 10% or more in an undergrad-oriented school, it's often a sign of trouble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

Thank you! I was reading PPs post thinking hmm that’s weird that mac is whiter than oberlin or Kenyon. surely an urban school in a diverse city like MSP is more diverse than a school in rural Ohio. So I see the PP is just wrong! 😆

Macalaster is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I guess you can get picky about how to define urban vs suburban. But GW or NYU or NEU type urban it is not. When you’re on campus you don’t feel like you are in the middle of a big city. Or even a college town.What’s walkable feels suburban, even if it’s with St Paul. I view this as a plus. It has a discrete campus, which many truly urban schools do not.

It also feels very white. That was my impression and both DCs (visited once with each). It doesn’t matter how diverse the surrounding area is. Most kids at these colleges are not from the surrounding areas. The reported numbers seem off for Mac, but they have a high international population, so I think they get counted as “international” and not white. Kenyon and Oberlin— also very white. None of these SlACs are attracting racial diversity.

Um duh? I think everyone knows that St Paul isn’t as bustling urban of a city as DC, NYC, or Boston. That doesn’t make it a suburb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

I agree Oberlin has a lot of diversity in other areas but it is not racially diverse at all. So I thought it was weird that Pp said her kids disdained Macalester for being “too white” and then chose Oberlin, which is even whiter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

Thank you! I was reading PPs post thinking hmm that’s weird that mac is whiter than oberlin or Kenyon. surely an urban school in a diverse city like MSP is more diverse than a school in rural Ohio. So I see the PP is just wrong! 😆

Macalaster is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I guess you can get picky about how to define urban vs suburban. But GW or NYU or NEU type urban it is not. When you’re on campus you don’t feel like you are in the middle of a big city. Or even a college town.What’s walkable feels suburban, even if it’s with St Paul. I view this as a plus. It has a discrete campus, which many truly urban schools do not.

It also feels very white. That was my impression and both DCs (visited once with each). It doesn’t matter how diverse the surrounding area is. Most kids at these colleges are not from the surrounding areas. The reported numbers seem off for Mac, but they have a high international population, so I think they get counted as “international” and not white. Kenyon and Oberlin— also very white. None of these SlACs are attracting racial diversity.

Large international student numbers at a SLAC should be a red flag. Most colleges top off the class with some full pay foreign students to bring in some extra cash. Colleges all like $$$. But when you start to see 10% or more in an undergrad-oriented school, it's often a sign of trouble.

No it's not. I just quickly looked and the 2 top SLACS - Williams and Amherst - both have about 10% international students. You're just making stuff up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

Do you mistakenly believe that most international students are white and are therefore being miscategorized? Macalester’s international students mostly come from Asian countries, then African countries, then South American and middle eastern countries…very few of the intl students there are European and if you haven’t already figured out where I’m going w this: most intl students at Macalester are in fact not white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We considered some of these schools, and my student will be going to Macalester this fall. In terms of diversity, Mac has slightly fewer students identifying as white than Oberlin, and also has more international students. When you add in the feel of the surrounding urban areas-- St. Paul and Minneapolis are very diverse, with large communities of, for example, Ethiopians and Hmong-- I can't imagine that a student spending four years at Oberlin would feel that they're in a more diverse environment than one at Mac. You should definitely visit both.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Oberlin&s=all&id=204501#enrolmt

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Macalester&s=all&id=173902#enrolmt

Thank you! I was reading PPs post thinking hmm that’s weird that mac is whiter than oberlin or Kenyon. surely an urban school in a diverse city like MSP is more diverse than a school in rural Ohio. So I see the PP is just wrong! 😆

Macalaster is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. I guess you can get picky about how to define urban vs suburban. But GW or NYU or NEU type urban it is not. When you’re on campus you don’t feel like you are in the middle of a big city. Or even a college town.What’s walkable feels suburban, even if it’s with St Paul. I view this as a plus. It has a discrete campus, which many truly urban schools do not.

It also feels very white. That was my impression and both DCs (visited once with each). It doesn’t matter how diverse the surrounding area is. Most kids at these colleges are not from the surrounding areas. The reported numbers seem off for Mac, but they have a high international population, so I think they get counted as “international” and not white. Kenyon and Oberlin— also very white. None of these SlACs are attracting racial diversity.

Um duh? I think everyone knows that St Paul isn’t as bustling urban of a city as DC, NYC, or Boston. That doesn’t make it a suburb.

Mac is in St. Paul, but it's in a suburban part of St. Paul. Somewhat similar to AU being in DC, but the AU neighborhood feeling very suburban.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of the three, Oberlin probably has the strongest science departments. A lot of its students go on to PhD programs.

+1. I have an Obie in a sciences field who is planning to work for a year and get a PhD. Two years of research with a prof. Plus a summer of research. Who is their “mentor” and a co-author on 1-2 papers. A study abroad with a research component specific to their interest. Getting ready to present at a conference. Is working with the school on their personal statement. After the Conservatory, sciences is Oberlin’s strongest area.

That said, my kid also applied to Mac and Kenyon and was accepted, also with merit. Kenyon is lovely, but more remote and stronger in humanities (esp writing and English) than science. I think that’s your third place choice in terms of science pre-PhD.

I loved Mac, which had a lovely, walkable suburban campus and was also strong in my kid’s area of science. But neither my kid, nor their sibling 3 years later, liked the school when they visited. It was very, very white. Sibling also passed on Oberlin.

Mac and Oberlin are schools you need to visit. I will cheerlead Oberlin’s science department. But doing well at Oberlin is really about fit, so I would never insist it’s the best school for your specific kid. You also need to visit Mac. Not sure why it raised such negative feelings in my kids— maybe the lack of diversity after the DMV?

If the reason your kid didn’t like macalester was lack of diversity, why did they pick oberlin, which is even whiter than macalester?

First— SLACs are largely white. For most, you accept that. Second, Oberlin is very diverse— just not racially. But first gen, low income, religion, sexual orientation and the way they present themselves— and the Con kids vs arts and sciences kids. There are a lot of artsy (like 1/3 to 1/2 in con, creative writing or fine arts) of kids who don’t look like a typical business student. The campus just has a different vibe than Mac because many of the kids are very different from each other and present themselves as such.

And third, Mac is not counting international symbionts in the white category they go in a separate international category instead. . And the have a lot of international

Do you mistakenly believe that most international students are white and are therefore being miscategorized? Macalester’s international students mostly come from Asian countries, then African countries, then South American and middle eastern countries…very few of the intl students there are European and if you haven’t already figured out where I’m going w this: most intl students at Macalester are in fact not white.

Yes, but if you're like me and are the parent of a Black child in the US, you look at Mac as 2% African-American. That gets combined with being the metro area that brought the George Floyd murder and still hasn't fixed its police department, and no way is my child going there. We were open enough to go on a visit as my son was being recruited for a sport, and while it's a nice school for some, we did not see it as the right place for my son.