Is TJ worth it for student aiming aiming for top schools like HPSM, Duke, Caltech?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know if your kid is in the top 10% at TJ if they don’t rank? What GPA by end of 10th or 11th grade would be considered in the top 10% or top 50 kids in the class?

I have no idea. My kid ended up with a 4.41 (class of 2020) and I always assumed it was towards the top 20% at least, but I really don't know. He had a (relatively) rough freshman year (2 B+'s, a B, and B-), but then had straight A's the rest of the way, except for 1 B+ as sophomore.

Did your kid apply to very selective colleges? What was outcome if you don’t mind sharing

He applied to very selective SLAC's, and generally did not get into the top ones (Williams, Amherst Swarthmore, Carleton). He did get into Grinnell and Union with a very nice merit aid packages. He was not interested in, and did not apply to, any of the Ivy League schools or similar types of universities (except for UVa, where he was deferred during Early Action but ultimately admitted during the RD round). After seriously considering Grinnell, he decided to go to William and Mary.

Congrats to your son to have a bunch of great choices. Are SLACs popular among TJ kids or prefer larger research universities?

I think he was somewhat unusual in that regard. He definitely did not want to be pigeonholed into CS, which was his intended major. He intended to double major in CS and Spanish but, ironically, after his freshman year, he became less enamored with history/poli sci classes, though he has done very well in them and still likes the subjects, which he studies on his own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So at TJ, is 4.5 weighted with many AP/Post AP the floor for being competitive for HYPSM Caltech? Or need to be more in the 4.6 range (how is that even possible? ) Do accepted URM or recruited athletes have lower GPAs from TJ than non hooked peers that get accepted?

Basically haven’t seen anyone with lower than that unhooked get into HPSMD Caltech, but for OP remember that TJ is a highly transformative experience and will prepare your kid well for future rigors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is currently a TJ junior. My answer is a firm no. No way. Like others have said, if you can make to the top 30 percent and do extra curriculars, great. If not, base school is much better, not saying it is easy. For the bottom 30 percent, where my kid is (based on the PSAT score), it is much worse off. Btw, TJ teachers are not great, quite a few do not teach and you are expected to learn on your own. Math homework and practice review are a lot easier than their actual tests, which are often six or seven pages long that you have to finish in 80 minutes. I don't find their counselors to be effective either. Sink or swim attitude is quite prevalent and if you sink then it is your problem and the school is not a right fit for you.

I would posit that an average (or below average) TJ student will be more successful at e.g. UVA than a top 30 student at e.g. Marshall, if TJ teaches that student how to learn independently. Some students have their hands held for 12 years and are crushed by the independent learning required at a top-50 school like UVA.

Maybe students from Chantilly or McLean would be better examples of this. The top Marshall-aligned students from the Kilmer cohort, with a few very clear exceptions, stay at Marshall b/c of the IB program and b/c of the engineering and practical, hands-on computer sciences courses in the Marshall Academy. That's why Kilmer was never a strong TJ feeder overall under the old system, even though there's always tremendous interest from the Madison side. I'm very skeptical of the IB curriculum, but it obviously has some attractions for the highest-achieving Marshall-aligned students despite what advantages and resources TJ would offer them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is currently a TJ junior. My answer is a firm no. No way. Like others have said, if you can make to the top 30 percent and do extra curriculars, great. If not, base school is much better, not saying it is easy. For the bottom 30 percent, where my kid is (based on the PSAT score), it is much worse off. Btw, TJ teachers are not great, quite a few do not teach and you are expected to learn on your own. Math homework and practice review are a lot easier than their actual tests, which are often six or seven pages long that you have to finish in 80 minutes. I don't find their counselors to be effective either. Sink or swim attitude is quite prevalent and if you sink then it is your problem and the school is not a right fit for you.

I would posit that an average (or below average) TJ student will be more successful at e.g. UVA than a top 30 student at e.g. Marshall, if TJ teaches that student how to learn independently. Some students have their hands held for 12 years and are crushed by the independent learning required at a top-50 school like UVA.

Maybe students from Chantilly or McLean would be better examples of this. The top Marshall-aligned students from the Kilmer cohort, with a few very clear exceptions, stay at Marshall b/c of the IB program and b/c of the engineering and practical, hands-on computer sciences courses in the Marshall Academy. That's why Kilmer was never a strong TJ feeder overall under the old system, even though there's always tremendous interest from the Madison side. I'm very skeptical of the IB curriculum, but it obviously has some attractions for the highest-achieving Marshall-aligned students despite what advantages and resources TJ would offer them.

What strong interest from the Madison side are you referring to... interest in attending TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know if your kid is in the top 10% at TJ if they don’t rank? What GPA by end of 10th or 11th grade would be considered in the top 10% or top 50 kids in the class?

I have no idea. My kid ended up with a 4.41 (class of 2020) and I always assumed it was towards the top 20% at least, but I really don't know. He had a (relatively) rough freshman year (2 B+'s, a B, and B-), but then had straight A's the rest of the way, except for 1 B+ as sophomore.

Did your kid apply to very selective colleges? What was outcome if you don’t mind sharing

He applied to very selective SLAC's, and generally did not get into the top ones (Williams, Amherst Swarthmore, Carleton). He did get into Grinnell and Union with a very nice merit aid packages. He was not interested in, and did not apply to, any of the Ivy League schools or similar types of universities (except for UVa, where he was deferred during Early Action but ultimately admitted during the RD round). After seriously considering Grinnell, he decided to go to William and Mary.

Congrats to your son to have a bunch of great choices. Are SLACs popular among TJ kids or prefer larger research universities?

Not the PP you responded to, but I think TJ kids prefer large research universities. They’re fond of W&M, which is kind of like a SLAC, but more kids go towards UVA/UMD/VT/Michigan/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know if your kid is in the top 10% at TJ if they don’t rank? What GPA by end of 10th or 11th grade would be considered in the top 10% or top 50 kids in the class?

I have no idea. My kid ended up with a 4.41 (class of 2020) and I always assumed it was towards the top 20% at least, but I really don't know. He had a (relatively) rough freshman year (2 B+'s, a B, and B-), but then had straight A's the rest of the way, except for 1 B+ as sophomore.

Did your kid apply to very selective colleges? What was outcome if you don’t mind sharing

He applied to very selective SLAC's, and generally did not get into the top ones (Williams, Amherst Swarthmore, Carleton). He did get into Grinnell and Union with a very nice merit aid packages. He was not interested in, and did not apply to, any of the Ivy League schools or similar types of universities (except for UVa, where he was deferred during Early Action but ultimately admitted during the RD round). After seriously considering Grinnell, he decided to go to William and Mary.

Congrats to your son to have a bunch of great choices. Are SLACs popular among TJ kids or prefer larger research universities?

Not the PP you responded to, but I think TJ kids prefer large research universities. They’re fond of W&M, which is kind of like a SLAC, but more kids go towards UVA/UMD/VT/Michigan/etc.

Do you think the most selective SLACs are not as interested in high stats TJ (or similar STEM magnets) because STEM kids tend to prefer larger research universities so these high stat students are not very successful in admissions to the most selective SLACs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know if your kid is in the top 10% at TJ if they don’t rank? What GPA by end of 10th or 11th grade would be considered in the top 10% or top 50 kids in the class?

I have no idea. My kid ended up with a 4.41 (class of 2020) and I always assumed it was towards the top 20% at least, but I really don't know. He had a (relatively) rough freshman year (2 B+'s, a B, and B-), but then had straight A's the rest of the way, except for 1 B+ as sophomore.

Did your kid apply to very selective colleges? What was outcome if you don’t mind sharing

He applied to very selective SLAC's, and generally did not get into the top ones (Williams, Amherst Swarthmore, Carleton). He did get into Grinnell and Union with a very nice merit aid packages. He was not interested in, and did not apply to, any of the Ivy League schools or similar types of universities (except for UVa, where he was deferred during Early Action but ultimately admitted during the RD round). After seriously considering Grinnell, he decided to go to William and Mary.

Congrats to your son to have a bunch of great choices. Are SLACs popular among TJ kids or prefer larger research universities?

Not the PP you responded to, but I think TJ kids prefer large research universities. They’re fond of W&M, which is kind of like a SLAC, but more kids go towards UVA/UMD/VT/Michigan/etc.

Do you think the most selective SLACs are not as interested in high stats TJ (or similar STEM magnets) because STEM kids tend to prefer larger research universities so these high stat students are not very successful in admissions to the most selective SLACs?

Not sure. My kid was a legacy at one of the top rated SLACS and didn't get in. 4.42 GPA at TJ with a 35 ACT (pre-test optional). He mostly applied to SLACS all over the country, plus UVa and WM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been interested in this matriculation question in the past, so pulled together matriculation info from recent years, including McLean 2018, TJ 2019, Potomac 2019-2022, Maret 2018-2022, and Bullis 2021-22.

Looking at %s not raw numbers, and limiting to the "college-bound" students from these, TJ had the highest HYPSM rate at ~8% (Potomac and Maret ~6%). McLean only 1%... though to be fair McLean has by far the highest % of students going to schools like George Mason or NVCC, so that dilutes their % a shade.

I then defined two more tiers beyond that... Tier 2:
SLAC Top 5 (Williams, Pomona, Amherst)
Private Top 6-14 (Penn, Northwestern)
Public Top 4 (UVA, Michigan)
Intl Top 5 (Toronto, Oxford))

And Tier 3:
SLAC Top 6-13 (Washington & Lee, Middlebury)
Private Top 15-26 (NYU, Wash U St. Louis)
Public Top 6-15 (William & Mary, Illinois UrbChamp)
Intl Top 6-15 (British Columbia, Edinburgh)

TJ again has the highest percentage of students that matriculated to Tier 2... 26% Tier 2 vs. 22% for Potomac and Maret, 14% McLean and 13% Bullis.

And TJ again has the highest percentage of students that matriculated to Tier 3... 32% Tier 2 vs. 28% for Potomac, 20% Maret and Bullis, and 13% McLean

Again, caveating that McLean's numbers may be a bit low by comparison because their school has a larger cohort of local public-school level kids that shifts the percentages... if you adjusted for that McLean would be a few % higher on tiers 2 and 3.

But combining the above, that means roughly 2/3 of TJ students are matriculating to "Tier 3 or better" schools, 1/2 of Potomac and Maret, and more like 1/3 of McLean and Bullis.

If anyone can point me to links with additional matriculation data for graduating classes from these or other HS of interest in the area in recent years, I'd love to add more data points to this analysis.

This is great work! I would only add that Potomac seems to be at 50% as you noted but Maret is closer to 40%. Also, I have found recent matriculation data by Googling the various schools' magazine publications. Usually their year end one has the data. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hello,

Planning ahead for DS. We understand that a big advantage of TJ is simply the peer group and great teachers. However, for college admissions we are wondering if sticking out and graduating high in the base HS is better than going to TJ and risking being in the middle of the pack. I recognize admissions for TJ are also different now and getting in is never guaranteed anyways.

I think this depends on your base school. If your child will go to McLean, Langley, Madison, etc then I would stick with your base school. I looked at the matriculation data for TJ for the classes of 2022 and 2021, and honestly, I was very surprised. I had heard many TJ kids were disappointed with their college acceptances, and based on the matriculation data, I can see why. While more students certainly get into HYPSM, the number is much lower (I think) based on the academic quality of the TJ students. In other words, I believe the TJ kids end up competing against one other, and being at TJ hurts kids who don't land in the top 10-15%.

If your base school is not one of the top high schools, I think the education and experience at TJ outweighs a slightly diminished college outcome.

As a note, my child was accepted to Duke ED and went to one of the FCPS schools mentioned above.

[Anonymous]

The thing about TJ is this--it prepares you fantastically not just academically, but mentally (and in other ways) for an academically rigorous major at a good college if you do get in. Just something to think about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hello,

Planning ahead for DS. We understand that a big advantage of TJ is simply the peer group and great teachers. However, for college admissions we are wondering if sticking out and graduating high in the base HS is better than going to TJ and risking being in the middle of the pack. I recognize admissions for TJ are also different now and getting in is never guaranteed anyways.

No it probably isn't because there's still a very toxic element there.

[Anonymous]

Things in bottom quartile of TJ can be bleak. Kids going full pay to "ag schools" in Texas. Dark af. Should have stayed home for high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Things in bottom quartile of TJ can be bleak. Kids going full pay to "ag schools" in Texas. Dark af. Should have stayed home for high school.

DC had a TJ friend who went to one of those. Apparently the kid visited the school before senior year and was offered a full ride + research opportunities + the whole 9 yards to go there. Honestly doesn’t sound too bad to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Things in bottom quartile of TJ can be bleak. Kids going full pay to "ag schools" in Texas. Dark af. Should have stayed home for high school.

DC had a TJ friend who went to one of those. Apparently the kid visited the school before senior year and was offered a full ride + research opportunities + the whole 9 yards to go there. Honestly doesn’t sound too bad to me.

Have seen a number of kids do this at schools like Alabama, Florida, UGA, etc, and go on to phenomenal grad schools. It's a great way to save money if you're planning on advanced degrees. Those big state schools will back up the Brinks truck to get a TJ kid to show up.

[Anonymous]

Yup. The family saves the money for med school or an MBA.