How much of a difference does GPA make if you're not at the top

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has had 3 friends die in high school, so I vote for happiness.

I’m sorry about your kid’s friends. This is what I worry most about. I don’t care where my kid goes to college as long as she is well adjusted, happy, and has a job after. My oldest is in 8th right now so we’re at the cusp of all this. She is friends with other high achievers and is bummed when she “only” has a 94. It’s going to be quite a balancing act between mental health and academic achievement

There are kids who can do everything and get a 4.0. It's not fun for the kids who think they are in that group to figure out that they aren't

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you will find there are kids doing all of these same activities and still have a 4.0. The bottom line is that your kid has to decide what kijd if student he wants to be, no one can answer that for him.

I know there are kids who can do that. I have another one who could and I feel like the same question might yield different answers for him, because the difference between the schools he might get into with a 4.0 vs. a 3.8 is much more dramatic and maybe worth significant sacrifice.

But academics don’t come easily for this kid. He works hard for his grades. Even if he sacrificed all the extra curriculars, he also wouldn’t be looking at top schools.

I think folks who do not have students like yours don’t get it. These folks think every kid can get a 4.0 uw, but some of us know not every kid can do that and not every kid is aiming for Top 20 schools. I would temper any advice you get on here with that in mind.

For kids like ours, the academics are grueling and the self-confidence trade off is too much sometimes. We have let our less than stellar student be good at other things and spend time on the things they are good at. In the end, that confidence is more important than “top” schools. They will go to college. I’m not concerned.

[Anonymous]

Here's the thing. You have no way to know whether the schools are admitting and offering merit aid based on weighted or unweighted GPAs. Some schools (mainly big public flagships) are just using a computer to run the stats through and basing admissions on that. Penn State doesn't read essays so they certainly don't care about your clubs. But if you're applying to a place like Sarah Lawrence or Reed, you'll need deep and continuous ECs to demonstrate that you're the type of person they're looking for. That type of school doesn't want boring people he don't engage in their community. Once you meet their GPA threshold, the increase in GPA won't matter until you hit the "top 5%" or "top 10%" of class threshold that they do seem to care about for reporting purposes. But some HSs don't even provide the class rank, so even that might not apply to you.

With TO the GPA is more important than it used to be.

Perhaps focus on prep for the SAT and apply with a score that's stronger than his GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For our MCPS school, here's some schools where average accepted student GPA (unweighted) is between 3.4-3.6.

Catholic University
George Mason University
Ithaca College
James Madison University
Juniata College
Loyola University Maryland
New Jersey Institute of Technology
Penn State (might include multiple campuses)
St. Joseph's University (Philadelphia)
St. Mary's College of Maryland
Temple University
University of North Carolina Wilmington

I think, other than the really huge schools (I don't see him at Penn State or JMU for example, and he's not going anywhere with "technology" in the name) that he'd be fine at any of those schools.

How different would that be from a 3.7 list? I think that's what I'm trying to get at.

DP. All the "tech" schools also have liberal arts colleges. FYI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GPA matters, and with TO, it matters more. Your child, like it or not, is competing against every other child at their high school for coveted spots in each university. Highest GPA is going to take the spot every single time.

I guess the question is whether he should be coveting those particular spots.

Assuming the lists above are accurate and apply to him, is the difference between Ithaca and Franklin and Marshall or Penn State and UMD substantial enough that giving up things he loves, and that develop life long skills, worth it?

I'm with you. No, it is not worth giving up what you love and what make you, you. My DC applied to three on that list and got into 2 of them with a 3.5UW, but chose a different school where DC continues to do those beloved ECs, and it has made all the difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am all for extracurriculars and not care re top colleges, but honestly your list sounds like a lot for a freshman adjusting to high school. And as PP said, B- shows last of mastery of subject. I’d cut back a bit at least for now. Kids need downtime too.

I disagree about the B-. It shows there was a point in time during the semester where the kid blew it (didn't turn in enough homework on time, flubbed an exam), but that same kid may have aced the 2-hour final; it's just too late to save the grade.

[Anonymous]

The issue is that the top kids have to go somewhere - so EVERYONE is adversely affected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.7-3.8

Boston University
Franklin and Marshall College
Lehigh University
George Washington University
New York University
Northeastern University
Tulane University
University of Maryland, College Park

What year did your kid graduate and what private school did they attend? BU, NYU, NEU, Tulane, and UMD (I don't know the others well enough) are not happening with that GPA from public school without some sort of hook. Big 3 is a different matter. OP doesn't say where her kid is at school, but most of this list is likely unrealistic, even ED.

This data is from my kid's public school Naviance, so may cover up to the last five years but it reflects the average GPA of kids accepted from our public school. (Yes, things have gotten more challenging over the past few years, but this is the data available). Obviously it's not taking into consideration test scores (which may have helped students) or other hooks. And it's an average, not a guarantee of admission. I made the lists as a point of comparison for OP who was wondering about different tiers of schools. Who knows, maybe in two years this 3.7-3.8 list will be the 3.85-3.9 list.

I know you think you are being helpful by providing this information, but, you should stick to posting about things you know. If you haven't had a kid go through the college admissions process in the last 2 years, your knowledge is basically zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.7-3.8

Boston University
Franklin and Marshall College
Lehigh University
George Washington University
New York University
Northeastern University
Tulane University
University of Maryland, College Park

Disagree with this list unless the weighted GPA is above a 4.0 and includes multiple AP or IB courses (or unless at a very competitive private high school).

+1 - except perhaps F&M

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:3.7-3.8

Boston University
Franklin and Marshall College
Lehigh University
George Washington University
New York University
Northeastern University
Tulane University
University of Maryland, College Park

What year did your kid graduate and what private school did they attend? BU, NYU, NEU, Tulane, and UMD (I don't know the others well enough) are not happening with that GPA from public school without some sort of hook. Big 3 is a different matter. OP doesn't say where her kid is at school, but most of this list is likely unrealistic, even ED.

This data is from my kid's public school Naviance, so may cover up to the last five years but it reflects the average GPA of kids accepted from our public school. (Yes, things have gotten more challenging over the past few years, but this is the data available). Obviously it's not taking into consideration test scores (which may have helped students) or other hooks. And it's an average, not a guarantee of admission. I made the lists as a point of comparison for OP who was wondering about different tiers of schools. Who knows, maybe in two years this 3.7-3.8 list will be the 3.85-3.9 list.

I know you think you are being helpful by providing this information, but, you should stick to posting about things you know. If you haven't had a kid go through the college admissions process in the last 2 years, your knowledge is basically zero.

Thanks for the advice. I have a kid who went through recently and another in the midst of the process. I was not making a list of schools for the OP with the promise that this is where her kid will get in. I was showing basically two tiers, based on some real-life students' GPAs. By the time OP's FRESHMAN is applying things may be different. (Perhaps even easier, because demographics.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GPA matters. 3.5 unweighted is low.

He's too busy. He shouldn't have a job during the school year. Only summers. The next thing he should cut down is volunteering during the school year. He should also cut any activity he does not truly enjoy.

My first kid attended a school ranked in low 80s with a 3.5 UW gpa, a 26 ACT and only 1 AP course (which they got a D in first semester). Graduated college with a 3.4 GPA (first attempted major did not help the gpa, after that had over 3.5 every semester). Began great job 2 weeks after college graduation.

Point being, if your kid is not targeting T50 schools, there will be PLENTY of excellent schools for them with only a 3.5 gpa, especially if they are very involved in ECs. So maybe have them pull back slightly on ECs to focus a bit on grades/rigor, but ultimately I say let them enjoy HS and focus on ECs that make them happy. Colleges like to see that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GPA matters. 3.5 unweighted is low.

He's too busy. He shouldn't have a job during the school year. Only summers. The next thing he should cut down is volunteering during the school year. He should also cut any activity he does not truly enjoy.

The problem is he loves all the things he does.

I'm curious why you think volunteering or working are less worthwhile than the other things.

Ignore that poster---they are grade obsessed. Much more important for your kid to follow their passion---especially if it involves working/volunteering. Colleges value that---especially colleges that a kid with a 3.5/3.6 gpa should be considering. Theater is a great way to spend HS---such character building and so many skills developed during this, not to mention social, emotional well being. Look at it this way---what if you kid drops the activities/EC/work/volunteering and focuses on grades and gets a 3.7 gpa (still not that much higher and doesn't really open that many doors) would they be happy if they don't get into the "higher/better" school? Because that's still a real possibility in today's environment. So I say, let your kid do what they are passionate about and excel and they will thank you for it later---they will enjoy HS while still preparing for the future. IMO the differences between a 3.5 and 3.6 GPA are minimal so the "doors opened " by the higher gpa really don't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GPA matters, and with TO, it matters more. Your child, like it or not, is competing against every other child at their high school for coveted spots in each university. Highest GPA is going to take the spot every single time.

I guess the question is whether he should be coveting those particular spots.

Assuming the lists above are accurate and apply to him, is the difference between Ithaca and Franklin and Marshall or Penn State and UMD substantial enough that giving up things he loves, and that develop life long skills, worth it?

I'd argue that it is not! Let your kid be passionate about what he loves. 3.5 GPA is an A-, it's not failing or even B average! Kids with 3.0 GPAs still go to decent colleges and succeed in life (and there is a huge difference between a 3.5 gpa and a 3.0 gpa in HS setting)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GPA matters, and with TO, it matters more. Your child, like it or not, is competing against every other child at their high school for coveted spots in each university. Highest GPA is going to take the spot every single time.

I agree.

Signed,
Parent of a senior who slightly sacrificed grades for ECs he is passionate about, and it made a difference in terms of where he has reasonable likelihood of acceptance

But does your kid really care? Or is it just you and/or his friends who care about "prestige" that are driving this concern? I know a kid with a 3.95+ UW gpa and 4.5+ W GPA, ~1500 SAT go to a school ranked over 200 (our 2nd state flagship school). They got into our state flagship (ranked T60) and CHOOSE to attend this school for athletics and to not attend parent's alma mater. Know what---they excelled in the honors college, got to be a collegiate athlete, graduated with honors and doing a job they love immediately after college.
They are happy, were happy in college and don't regret their choice at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you will find there are kids doing all of these same activities and still have a 4.0. The bottom line is that your kid has to decide what kijd if student he wants to be, no one can answer that for him.

I know there are kids who can do that. I have another one who could and I feel like the same question might yield different answers for him, because the difference between the schools he might get into with a 4.0 vs. a 3.8 is much more dramatic and maybe worth significant sacrifice.

But academics don’t come easily for this kid. He works hard for his grades. Even if he sacrificed all the extra curriculars, he also wouldn’t be looking at top schools.

All the more reason to let him be HAPPY and follow his passions. a 3.5 GPA is a G*d damn A-!! He will still go to a great school