Walter Johnson HS vs. Quince Orchard HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the links. I didn't know these type of data existed. However, they are not comparable, and different, in a way that I suspect reflects the school. Here are my observations, in case helpful to others:

GPA:
-- QO: If I read the table on top of p.2 to the left correctly - and I can't tell if I am -- 49% of the class of 2023 has a GPA between 3.51 - 4.00.
-- WJ: doesn't give average or range of GPAs. Instead it focuses on giving average and range of APs.

SATs and ACTs.
-- QO's gives average SATs, for both math and verbal. For ACTs, gives average for composite.
-- WJ's: for SAT gives average for math, verbal and composite; for ACT, gives average by subjects and the composite. WJ's SAT for math and verbal are ever so slightly higher; but same as QO for ACT composite.

APs:
-- WJ really shines here, listing various AP honors (eg: Scholar, with Distinction, etc.) and listing out each AP with scores and number of students that achieved each score.
-- QO only gives total students tested, total number of tests, and %age that scored 3 or higher is 66% (but can't tell if this means %age of students or %age of tests taken.)

QO notes:
-- only 70% go onto 4 year college, and the remainder to 2 yr. colleges. Although, with college costs as they are, and QO area not being as wealthy, perhaps families are strategizing by sending their kids to community colleges. I'm considering the same.
-- WJ has no data on %age going to 4yr vs. 2yr.


So if a kid scores "above average" in QO in terms of AP -- it'll be easier to -- and it'll stand out more.

But, ... despite assurances provided by some posters (and I appreciate it) I don't think my son would do the same at either school. I think he'll need a strong culture of academics, or else will easily slide into not caring too much.

I went to one of the infamous NYC magnet schools. Some teachers were good; some were bad; there weren't enough college counselors. So, with parents who didn't know anything about the college landscape (except recognizing the name of Ivies), I relied on my peers, and the older students to guide me. We amongst ourselves just shared a lot of information and tips.

First, you analyzed the wrong links.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04125.pdf
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04424.pdf

Here's a summary of how they stack up.
WJ QO
67.1% 63.7% Meeting UofM Entrance Req (e.g. "college ready")
<= 5% <= 5%Dropout Rate
<= 3% <= 3% Suspension Rate
>=95% 91.7% Graduation Rate
93.8% 91.2% Attendance Rate
74.8% 57.0% SAT Tested
1234 1120 SAT Avg
70.8% 55.3% 3+ AP or 4+ IB

Honestly, if you're that concerned about academics and shaving points; Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, RM, BCC, I'm pretty sure all have higher averages than either WJ or QO?

This. I also agree with another poster who said that Wootton may be the way to go. OP- Wootton is known for its heavy emphasis on academics above all else. You may want to consider that. If you can afford WJ or QO, you can certainly afford Wootton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the links. I didn't know these type of data existed. However, they are not comparable, and different, in a way that I suspect reflects the school. Here are my observations, in case helpful to others:

GPA:
-- QO: If I read the table on top of p.2 to the left correctly - and I can't tell if I am -- 49% of the class of 2023 has a GPA between 3.51 - 4.00.
-- WJ: doesn't give average or range of GPAs. Instead it focuses on giving average and range of APs.

SATs and ACTs.
-- QO's gives average SATs, for both math and verbal. For ACTs, gives average for composite.
-- WJ's: for SAT gives average for math, verbal and composite; for ACT, gives average by subjects and the composite. WJ's SAT for math and verbal are ever so slightly higher; but same as QO for ACT composite.

APs:
-- WJ really shines here, listing various AP honors (eg: Scholar, with Distinction, etc.) and listing out each AP with scores and number of students that achieved each score.
-- QO only gives total students tested, total number of tests, and %age that scored 3 or higher is 66% (but can't tell if this means %age of students or %age of tests taken.)

QO notes:
-- only 70% go onto 4 year college, and the remainder to 2 yr. colleges. Although, with college costs as they are, and QO area not being as wealthy, perhaps families are strategizing by sending their kids to community colleges. I'm considering the same.
-- WJ has no data on %age going to 4yr vs. 2yr.


So if a kid scores "above average" in QO in terms of AP -- it'll be easier to -- and it'll stand out more.

But, ... despite assurances provided by some posters (and I appreciate it) I don't think my son would do the same at either school. I think he'll need a strong culture of academics, or else will easily slide into not caring too much.

I went to one of the infamous NYC magnet schools. Some teachers were good; some were bad; there weren't enough college counselors. So, with parents who didn't know anything about the college landscape (except recognizing the name of Ivies), I relied on my peers, and the older students to guide me. We amongst ourselves just shared a lot of information and tips.

First, you analyzed the wrong links.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04125.pdf
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04424.pdf

Here's a summary of how they stack up.
WJ QO
67.1% 63.7% Meeting UofM Entrance Req (e.g. "college ready")
<= 5% <= 5%Dropout Rate
<= 3% <= 3% Suspension Rate
>=95% 91.7% Graduation Rate
93.8% 91.2% Attendance Rate
74.8% 57.0% SAT Tested
1234 1120 SAT Avg
70.8% 55.3% 3+ AP or 4+ IB

Honestly, if you're that concerned about academics and shaving points; Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, RM, BCC, I'm pretty sure all have higher averages than either WJ or QO?

This. I also agree with another poster who said that Wootton may be the way to go. OP- Wootton is known for its heavy emphasis on academics above all else. You may want to consider that. If you can afford WJ or QO, you can certainly afford Wootton.

I don't know. These bulk averages aren't all that meaningful with how an individual student might do and simply reflect an area's overall SES. For example, looking at the above numbers it's a safe bet the same kid would do the same at either school. My best advice is to select the school based on the community that suits you best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the links. I didn't know these type of data existed. However, they are not comparable, and different, in a way that I suspect reflects the school. Here are my observations, in case helpful to others:

GPA:
-- QO: If I read the table on top of p.2 to the left correctly - and I can't tell if I am -- 49% of the class of 2023 has a GPA between 3.51 - 4.00.
-- WJ: doesn't give average or range of GPAs. Instead it focuses on giving average and range of APs.

SATs and ACTs.
-- QO's gives average SATs, for both math and verbal. For ACTs, gives average for composite.
-- WJ's: for SAT gives average for math, verbal and composite; for ACT, gives average by subjects and the composite. WJ's SAT for math and verbal are ever so slightly higher; but same as QO for ACT composite.

APs:
-- WJ really shines here, listing various AP honors (eg: Scholar, with Distinction, etc.) and listing out each AP with scores and number of students that achieved each score.
-- QO only gives total students tested, total number of tests, and %age that scored 3 or higher is 66% (but can't tell if this means %age of students or %age of tests taken.)

QO notes:
-- only 70% go onto 4 year college, and the remainder to 2 yr. colleges. Although, with college costs as they are, and QO area not being as wealthy, perhaps families are strategizing by sending their kids to community colleges. I'm considering the same.
-- WJ has no data on %age going to 4yr vs. 2yr.


So if a kid scores "above average" in QO in terms of AP -- it'll be easier to -- and it'll stand out more.

But, ... despite assurances provided by some posters (and I appreciate it) I don't think my son would do the same at either school. I think he'll need a strong culture of academics, or else will easily slide into not caring too much.

I went to one of the infamous NYC magnet schools. Some teachers were good; some were bad; there weren't enough college counselors. So, with parents who didn't know anything about the college landscape (except recognizing the name of Ivies), I relied on my peers, and the older students to guide me. We amongst ourselves just shared a lot of information and tips.

First, you analyzed the wrong links.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04125.pdf
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04424.pdf

Here's a summary of how they stack up.
WJ QO
67.1% 63.7% Meeting UofM Entrance Req (e.g. "college ready")
<= 5% <= 5%Dropout Rate
<= 3% <= 3% Suspension Rate
>=95% 91.7% Graduation Rate
93.8% 91.2% Attendance Rate
74.8% 57.0% SAT Tested
1234 1120 SAT Avg
70.8% 55.3% 3+ AP or 4+ IB

Honestly, if you're that concerned about academics and shaving points; Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, RM, BCC, I'm pretty sure all have higher averages than either WJ or QO?

This. I also agree with another poster who said that Wootton may be the way to go. OP- Wootton is known for its heavy emphasis on academics above all else. You may want to consider that. If you can afford WJ or QO, you can certainly afford Wootton.

I don't know. These bulk averages aren't all that meaningful with how an individual student might do and simply reflect an area's overall SES. For example, looking at the above numbers it's a safe bet the same kid would do the same at either school. My best advice is to select the school based on the community that suits you best.

I agree. I was just saying that because OP seems to be very focused on academics and is looking for a school culture that prioritizes academics more than anything. Wootton fits that bill in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the links. I didn't know these type of data existed. However, they are not comparable, and different, in a way that I suspect reflects the school. Here are my observations, in case helpful to others:

GPA:
-- QO: If I read the table on top of p.2 to the left correctly - and I can't tell if I am -- 49% of the class of 2023 has a GPA between 3.51 - 4.00.
-- WJ: doesn't give average or range of GPAs. Instead it focuses on giving average and range of APs.

SATs and ACTs.
-- QO's gives average SATs, for both math and verbal. For ACTs, gives average for composite.
-- WJ's: for SAT gives average for math, verbal and composite; for ACT, gives average by subjects and the composite. WJ's SAT for math and verbal are ever so slightly higher; but same as QO for ACT composite.

APs:
-- WJ really shines here, listing various AP honors (eg: Scholar, with Distinction, etc.) and listing out each AP with scores and number of students that achieved each score.
-- QO only gives total students tested, total number of tests, and %age that scored 3 or higher is 66% (but can't tell if this means %age of students or %age of tests taken.)

QO notes:
-- only 70% go onto 4 year college, and the remainder to 2 yr. colleges. Although, with college costs as they are, and QO area not being as wealthy, perhaps families are strategizing by sending their kids to community colleges. I'm considering the same.
-- WJ has no data on %age going to 4yr vs. 2yr.


So if a kid scores "above average" in QO in terms of AP -- it'll be easier to -- and it'll stand out more.

But, ... despite assurances provided by some posters (and I appreciate it) I don't think my son would do the same at either school. I think he'll need a strong culture of academics, or else will easily slide into not caring too much.

I went to one of the infamous NYC magnet schools. Some teachers were good; some were bad; there weren't enough college counselors. So, with parents who didn't know anything about the college landscape (except recognizing the name of Ivies), I relied on my peers, and the older students to guide me. We amongst ourselves just shared a lot of information and tips.

First, you analyzed the wrong links.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04125.pdf
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04424.pdf

Here's a summary of how they stack up.
WJ QO
67.1% 63.7% Meeting UofM Entrance Req (e.g. "college ready")
<= 5% <= 5%Dropout Rate
<= 3% <= 3% Suspension Rate
>=95% 91.7% Graduation Rate
93.8% 91.2% Attendance Rate
74.8% 57.0% SAT Tested
1234 1120 SAT Avg
70.8% 55.3% 3+ AP or 4+ IB

Honestly, if you're that concerned about academics and shaving points; Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, RM, BCC, I'm pretty sure all have higher averages than either WJ or QO?

This. I also agree with another poster who said that Wootton may be the way to go. OP- Wootton is known for its heavy emphasis on academics above all else. You may want to consider that. If you can afford WJ or QO, you can certainly afford Wootton.

I don't know. These bulk averages aren't all that meaningful with how an individual student might do and simply reflect an area's overall SES. For example, looking at the above numbers it's a safe bet the same kid would do the same at either school. My best advice is to select the school based on the community that suits you best.

I chose based on the community that suits my kids (and my kid's future) best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for the links. I didn't know these type of data existed. However, they are not comparable, and different, in a way that I suspect reflects the school. Here are my observations, in case helpful to others:

GPA:
-- QO: If I read the table on top of p.2 to the left correctly - and I can't tell if I am -- 49% of the class of 2023 has a GPA between 3.51 - 4.00.
-- WJ: doesn't give average or range of GPAs. Instead it focuses on giving average and range of APs.

SATs and ACTs.
-- QO's gives average SATs, for both math and verbal. For ACTs, gives average for composite.
-- WJ's: for SAT gives average for math, verbal and composite; for ACT, gives average by subjects and the composite. WJ's SAT for math and verbal are ever so slightly higher; but same as QO for ACT composite.

APs:
-- WJ really shines here, listing various AP honors (eg: Scholar, with Distinction, etc.) and listing out each AP with scores and number of students that achieved each score.
-- QO only gives total students tested, total number of tests, and %age that scored 3 or higher is 66% (but can't tell if this means %age of students or %age of tests taken.)

QO notes:
-- only 70% go onto 4 year college, and the remainder to 2 yr. colleges. Although, with college costs as they are, and QO area not being as wealthy, perhaps families are strategizing by sending their kids to community colleges. I'm considering the same.
-- WJ has no data on %age going to 4yr vs. 2yr.


So if a kid scores "above average" in QO in terms of AP -- it'll be easier to -- and it'll stand out more.

But, ... despite assurances provided by some posters (and I appreciate it) I don't think my son would do the same at either school. I think he'll need a strong culture of academics, or else will easily slide into not caring too much.

I went to one of the infamous NYC magnet schools. Some teachers were good; some were bad; there weren't enough college counselors. So, with parents who didn't know anything about the college landscape (except recognizing the name of Ivies), I relied on my peers, and the older students to guide me. We amongst ourselves just shared a lot of information and tips.

First, you analyzed the wrong links.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04125.pdf
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/regulatoryaccountability/glance/currentyear/schools/04424.pdf

Here's a summary of how they stack up.
WJ QO
67.1% 63.7% Meeting UofM Entrance Req (e.g. "college ready")
<= 5% <= 5%Dropout Rate
<= 3% <= 3% Suspension Rate
>=95% 91.7% Graduation Rate
93.8% 91.2% Attendance Rate
74.8% 57.0% SAT Tested
1234 1120 SAT Avg
70.8% 55.3% 3+ AP or 4+ IB

Honestly, if you're that concerned about academics and shaving points; Poolesville, Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, RM, BCC, I'm pretty sure all have higher averages than either WJ or QO?

This. I also agree with another poster who said that Wootton may be the way to go. OP- Wootton is known for its heavy emphasis on academics above all else. You may want to consider that. If you can afford WJ or QO, you can certainly afford Wootton.

I don't know. These bulk averages aren't all that meaningful with how an individual student might do and simply reflect an area's overall SES. For example, looking at the above numbers it's a safe bet the same kid would do the same at either school. My best advice is to select the school based on the community that suits you best.

I chose based on the community that suits my kids (and my kid's future) best.

I'm sure the academics at either school are comparable, but if it were me personally, I"d go with WJ because I dislike football culture.

[Anonymous]

Just my take. We are at Wootton. We know lots of kids at QO and a few at WJ. DD was pulled up by the culture at Wootton. She wasn’t the most motivated kid but the bulk of kids are achievement oriented and she wanted to fit in so she challenged herself and studied more. But it was not high-pressure for her. It was a very good thing. DS was a very achievement oriented type-A student. He wanted to be a top student and was very aware of the grades and AP course loads of other students. He always felt like he was somehow behind as a result, when we felt he was really stellar. His best friend was at QO and said QO was less competitive and that DS would have been a real standout there. A few other QO parents also said similar things. Many of the kids we know from QO are focused on academics but have a different measuring stick. I think DS would have been happier there. He could still challenge himself with APs but find more of a balance. Our youngest is not a great student and loves sports and would most definitely be happier at QO, but like with DD, we think the peers at Wootton provide some motivation for him. My impression has been that WJ is very similar Wootton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just my take. We are at Wootton. We know lots of kids at QO and a few at WJ. DD was pulled up by the culture at Wootton. She wasn’t the most motivated kid but the bulk of kids are achievement oriented and she wanted to fit in so she challenged herself and studied more. But it was not high-pressure for her. It was a very good thing. DS was a very achievement oriented type-A student. He wanted to be a top student and was very aware of the grades and AP course loads of other students. He always felt like he was somehow behind as a result, when we felt he was really stellar. His best friend was at QO and said QO was less competitive and that DS would have been a real standout there. A few other QO parents also said similar things. Many of the kids we know from QO are focused on academics but have a different measuring stick. I think DS would have been happier there. He could still challenge himself with APs but find more of a balance. Our youngest is not a great student and loves sports and would most definitely be happier at QO, but like with DD, we think the peers at Wootton provide some motivation for him. My impression has been that WJ is very similar Wootton.

True there's a high-achieving cohort at any school with 1000+ students that has that effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just my take. We are at Wootton. We know lots of kids at QO and a few at WJ. DD was pulled up by the culture at Wootton. She wasn’t the most motivated kid but the bulk of kids are achievement oriented and she wanted to fit in so she challenged herself and studied more. But it was not high-pressure for her. It was a very good thing. DS was a very achievement oriented type-A student. He wanted to be a top student and was very aware of the grades and AP course loads of other students. He always felt like he was somehow behind as a result, when we felt he was really stellar. His best friend was at QO and said QO was less competitive and that DS would have been a real standout there. A few other QO parents also said similar things. Many of the kids we know from QO are focused on academics but have a different measuring stick. I think DS would have been happier there. He could still challenge himself with APs but find more of a balance. Our youngest is not a great student and loves sports and would most definitely be happier at QO, but like with DD, we think the peers at Wootton provide some motivation for him. My impression has been that WJ is very similar Wootton.

True there's a high-achieving cohort at any school with 1000+ students that has that effect.

I suspect a lot of this is mostly just the PP's impression. The reality is AP English or Calc BC are taught by the same group of teachers with the same curriculum at all schools. The rigor and experience is just a function of the classes you select.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I chose based on the community that suits my kids (and my kid's future) best.

This is unknowable.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I've found this to be the best information.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/individual-measures.html

You can get past mere averages. You can get for each MCPS high school, the mean SAT math and verbal, and AP data (% of 12th graders that take AP that score 3+, % of APs taken that score 3+, et) filtered by different cohorts, including non-FARM students. This can help you gain a sense of how your child might do, and also to a certain extent, show how kids are doing, and in which school the culture and peer group will help "pull" kids up. It's very interesting. It does appear that given Quince Orchard demographic is doesn't perform as well as other high schools, and I do wonder if the sports culture gets in the way.

[Anonymous]

We bought in QO this year but have young kids who are far from HS years. My preference would have been RM from an academic/diversity/balance perspective but we couldn’t find a decent house in our budget (quality being the bigger issue then price). There were also areas of Wooton we looked at but I really worried about the academic pressure, and felt we were kind of priced out of the decent homes there. We will see if the QO sports culture proves too intense for our kids down the road (we are very close so do not think there is any chance of being redistricted to Crown, but who knows). We didn’t buy here explicitly for the HS, given how young our kids are, but did consider it as a factor.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for sharing your experience about RM and QO. I too am looking at RM and like it a lot, but, agreed, the housing stock is not as easy as the QO area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for sharing your experience about RM and QO. I too am looking at RM and like it a lot, but, agreed, the housing stock is not as easy as the QO area.

Ritchie Park Zone has some nice housing zoned for RM