Cancer at MCPS schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

If there were, I'm not sure how you'd find out? MCPS could just claim it's a violation of privacy since it's HIPPA / Privacy data. The person with the cancer would have to say something themselves. Not everyone is willing to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

Yes, there are none but please don't let that stop the wacky conspiracy theories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

Yes, there are none but please don't let that stop the wacky conspiracy theories.

We have more serious concerns like the teachers who actively had cancer in the spring of 2021 but were given a form letter denial of ADA accommodations because MCPS was too lazy or disorganized to look case by case at requests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

Yes, there are none but please don't let that stop the wacky conspiracy theories.

We have more serious concerns like the teachers who actively had cancer in the spring of 2021 but were given a form letter denial of ADA accommodations because MCPS was too lazy or disorganized to look case by case at requests.

Not sure what you’re referring to, but it seems like they should have been taking FMLA if they weren’t able to work.

[Anonymous]

Any school from the 70’s has asbestos. It’s in the floor tiles or in the glue that secures the tiles. Best thing to do is just leave it and later cover it over during a remodel. However, it’s very common for people to rip it out too.

Most dangerous form of asbestos is the fibrous type that is used in insulation particularly around pipes. The fibers are the most dangerous to the lungs as they are an irritant if breathed in. This form of asbestos is far less common.

No asbestos is good, but most forms are not dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Older MCPS buildings have asbestos. At our W elementary, there once was a pipe leak that caused mold after a snow storm. Staff and children were in the building while custodians cleaned up the moldy asbestos ceiling tiles by hand with no protective gear.

It would be in the public interest to keep data of cases of cancer for MCPS staff and students.

I’d be most concerned about the staff who did the clean up in that case.

The school was Beverly Farms if anyone needs to know. There were other instances of bats in the ceiling that caused chunks of ceiling tiles to fall in the upstairs classrooms. A staff member had a broken chunk tested which tested positive for asbestos.

The old school with these problems was torn down years ago so these are not current problems. However, cancer from exposure may take decades to develop in school staff and students. Mezothelioma would be the cancer caused by asbestos. MCPS never notified staff and students of their exposure.

I was thinking, there might be a way to determine whether MCPS has asbestos-related injuries. You could search either court cases or file a FOIA with Department of Education Office of Civil Rights. Both would list injury complaints.

If the asbestos was in tiles, then it might be stable. However, that's not what another poster said. They described what sounded like crumbling ceiling tile? That is fryable material. There is another instance of possible disease transmission from bat guano. From either aspect, failure to properly inspect and remediate could be considered gross negligence, especially if the test results were positive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

Yes, there are none but please don't let that stop the wacky conspiracy theories.

We have more serious concerns like the teachers who actively had cancer in the spring of 2021 but were given a form letter denial of ADA accommodations because MCPS was too lazy or disorganized to look case by case at requests.

Who is this MCPS person that can get away with ignoring the law?!? If this were the case, you would think the courts could remedy it, but seems like more like grievance porn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

Yes, there are none but please don't let that stop the wacky conspiracy theories.

We have more serious concerns like the teachers who actively had cancer in the spring of 2021 but were given a form letter denial of ADA accommodations because MCPS was too lazy or disorganized to look case by case at requests.

Who is this MCPS person that can get away with ignoring the law?!? If this were the case, you would think the courts could remedy it, but seems like more like grievance porn.

Khalid Walker

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

Yes, there are none but please don't let that stop the wacky conspiracy theories.

We have more serious concerns like the teachers who actively had cancer in the spring of 2021 but were given a form letter denial of ADA accommodations because MCPS was too lazy or disorganized to look case by case at requests.

Who is this MCPS person that can get away with ignoring the law?!? If this were the case, you would think the courts could remedy it, but seems like more like grievance porn.

What makes you think they were ignoring the law? Based on the general date mentioned, I’m guessing the PP was referring to teachers that did not want to return to school when they reopened. A school can certainly determine that a request to stay home is not a reasonable accommodation for a classroom teacher. The ADA doesn’t say what some of you seem to think it says. An employer does not have to provide accommodations that would prevent the employee from doing fundamental responsibilities of the job effectively.

The scenario referenced by the PP sounds more like something that should be addressed by short-term disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Older MCPS buildings have asbestos. At our W elementary, there once was a pipe leak that caused mold after a snow storm. Staff and children were in the building while custodians cleaned up the moldy asbestos ceiling tiles by hand with no protective gear.

It would be in the public interest to keep data of cases of cancer for MCPS staff and students.

I’d be most concerned about the staff who did the clean up in that case.

The school was Beverly Farms if anyone needs to know. There were other instances of bats in the ceiling that caused chunks of ceiling tiles to fall in the upstairs classrooms. A staff member had a broken chunk tested which tested positive for asbestos.

The old school with these problems was torn down years ago so these are not current problems. However, cancer from exposure may take decades to develop in school staff and students. Mezothelioma would be the cancer caused by asbestos. MCPS never notified staff and students of their exposure.

I was thinking, there might be a way to determine whether MCPS has asbestos-related injuries. You could search either court cases or file a FOIA with Department of Education Office of Civil Rights. Both would list injury complaints.

If the asbestos was in tiles, then it might be stable. However, that's not what another poster said. They described what sounded like crumbling ceiling tile? That is fryable material. There is another instance of possible disease transmission from bat guano. From either aspect, failure to properly inspect and remediate could be considered gross negligence, especially if the test results were positive.

I think there’s probably a long list of hazardous materials that students and staff are exposed to with the pesticides use for insect control, asbestos in older buildings, school’s buildings built near large power lines, and lead in drinking water. At our school, we lost two teachers who were middle aged to ovarian cancer and a rare brain tumor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and the conclusion you asked for?

"Virtually all cases of mesothelioma are linked with asbestos exposure."
https://www.uah.edu/images/administrative/facilities/oehs/asbestos_awareness_secured.pdf

That means that if there is even a single case of mesothelioma, and the asbestos was reported but not remediated, or if this was reported to the BOE or CO and they took no action; I would save those emails.

Was there a case of mesothelioma?

Correct. That is what you need to examine. I find the supposition that 60+ year old pipe wrap in a school is 'never disturbed' and 'never deteriorates' very disturbing; especially if there have been 18 cancer incidents at the one school. That in itself would lead one to investigate the source / root cause. Either (a) an incident of asbestos-related cancer, or (b) if the description earlier was accurate and the 60-year+ old asbestos was fryable (e.g. has dust, can be crumbled, etc.) then it would need to be removed. The EPA guidance for non-removal applies more towards asbestos that was embedded into other materials (ex. floor tiles) or for homeowners who didn't have as much of it in their homes. I would think pipe wrapping or ceiling tiles at a busy school are prone to more churn and deterioration than your average home.

Also, I don't think it's possible to isolate ceiling tiles at a school. The entire ceiling, airducts, etc. would need to be sealed off, which is not possible (e.g. fire hazard, cuts off air flow, etc.).

I would hope that MCPS attorney's are not so stupid as to advise their leadership not to remediate if there are related cancer incidents or they found fryable material? That would be professionally unethical and irresponsible, since they are not scientists and could not themselves certify the buildings are safe. I would think that opens up the attorney's to personal liability as well? I don't know the MD process, but if the buildings are tested annually, there should be some inspection record from (I believe) a certified asbestos abatement company on file with MCPS? Does anyone have a link for when the last time the building was inspected?

So there are no known cases?

Yes, there are none but please don't let that stop the wacky conspiracy theories.

Huh? You are not the OP.

OP