Have the new "Stop for Pedestrian in Xwalk" signs ruined the car/pedestrian dynamic ???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

No one has a right of way, one party needs to yield the right of way.

I seems you don’t understand the concept of “right of way.” The law requires that a driver yield to another who has the right of way. It’s the very essence of the concept of yielding, It also varies by state. In NJ drivers are required to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk but yield to those in an unmarked crosswalk. In Connecticut a driver must yield to pedestrians standing at the curb.

Pedestrians must also yield the right of way to vehicles. A crosswalk doesn't give you a right to step out into the crsswalk without due consideration for the rights of way for the drivers.

Wrong. You are demonstrably wrong and I sincerely hope you take a serious reevaluation of your knowledge of trafic laws and your fitness to operate a motor vehicle:

Crosswalk definition: Any intersection of two or more roadways is a legal crosswalk, whether marked or not.

Pedestrians have the same rights in marked crosswalks as in unmarked crosswalks.

Crosswalk without signals: The driver of a vehicle shall stop and give right of way to a pedestrian crossing the
roadway within any marked crosswalk or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection.

https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/publication/attachments/bike_ped_traffic_reg_summary_0_0.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

No one has a right of way, one party needs to yield the right of way.

I seems you don’t understand the concept of “right of way.” The law requires that a driver yield to another who has the right of way. It’s the very essence of the concept of yielding, It also varies by state. In NJ drivers are required to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk but yield to those in an unmarked crosswalk. In Connecticut a driver must yield to pedestrians standing at the curb.

Pedestrians must also yield the right of way to vehicles. A crosswalk doesn't give you a right to step out into the crsswalk without due consideration for the rights of way for the drivers.

Wrong. You are demonstrably wrong and I sincerely hope you take a serious reevaluation of your knowledge of trafic laws and your fitness to operate a motor vehicle:

Crosswalk definition: Any intersection of two or more roadways is a legal crosswalk, whether marked or not.

Pedestrians have the same rights in marked crosswalks as in unmarked crosswalks.

Crosswalk without signals: The driver of a vehicle shall stop and give right of way to a pedestrian crossing the
roadway within any marked crosswalk or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection.

https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/publication/attachments/bike_ped_traffic_reg_summary_0_0.pdf

To be fair to PP, the law in DC does impose on pedestrians one obligation to respect the rights of drivers, which is not to leave the curb so close that its impossible for the driver to yield (https://casetext.com/regulation/district-of-columbia-administrative-code/title-18-vehicles-and-traffic/chapter-18-23-pedestrians/rule-18-2303-right-of-way-in-crosswalks). As a driver in DC, I basically never see this, so I don't think its what the OP is talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

No one has a right of way, one party needs to yield the right of way.

I seems you don’t understand the concept of “right of way.” The law requires that a driver yield to another who has the right of way. It’s the very essence of the concept of yielding, It also varies by state. In NJ drivers are required to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk but yield to those in an unmarked crosswalk. In Connecticut a driver must yield to pedestrians standing at the curb.

Pedestrians must also yield the right of way to vehicles. A crosswalk doesn't give you a right to step out into the crsswalk without due consideration for the rights of way for the drivers.

This is not a correct statement of the law. Drivers, with a few limited exceptions, must always yield to pedestrians. Some of the exceptions include crossing against a signal, jaywalking, or walking in an area where pedestrians are prohibited. Generally, pedestrians must yield to a vehicle only when crossing not at an intersection and with no marked crosswalk. Stepping from the curb triggers the legal duty to exercise reasonable due care to yield to a pedestrian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

No one has a right of way, one party needs to yield the right of way.

I seems you don’t understand the concept of “right of way.” The law requires that a driver yield to another who has the right of way. It’s the very essence of the concept of yielding, It also varies by state. In NJ drivers are required to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk but yield to those in an unmarked crosswalk. In Connecticut a driver must yield to pedestrians standing at the curb.

Pedestrians must also yield the right of way to vehicles. A crosswalk doesn't give you a right to step out into the crsswalk without due consideration for the rights of way for the drivers.

Wrong. You are demonstrably wrong and I sincerely hope you take a serious reevaluation of your knowledge of trafic laws and your fitness to operate a motor vehicle:

Crosswalk definition: Any intersection of two or more roadways is a legal crosswalk, whether marked or not.

Pedestrians have the same rights in marked crosswalks as in unmarked crosswalks.

Crosswalk without signals: The driver of a vehicle shall stop and give right of way to a pedestrian crossing the
roadway within any marked crosswalk or unmarked crosswalk at an intersection.

https://ddot.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/ddot/publication/attachments/bike_ped_traffic_reg_summary_0_0.pdf

To be fair to PP, the law in DC does impose on pedestrians one obligation to respect the rights of drivers, which is not to leave the curb so close that its impossible for the driver to yield (https://casetext.com/regulation/district-of-columbia-administrative-code/title-18-vehicles-and-traffic/chapter-18-23-pedestrians/rule-18-2303-right-of-way-in-crosswalks). As a driver in DC, I basically never see this, so I don't think its what the OP is talking about.

Prohibiting pedestrians from entering a crosswalk in a manner so abruptly that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a driver to stop is a very high bar in a residential neighborhood with a posted limit of 25 mph. A rule of thumb is that under normal braking conditions a vehicle can be expected to decelerate at a rate of 10 mph per second, which translates roughly to 15 feet per second.

[Anonymous]

It's hard because as a pedestrian who doesn't want to die, I'm going to watch out for cars. I was almost killed once by a lady who ran a stale red (I had been in the intersection and crossing for a good while). She almost hit me, honked at me and flipped me off. I was crossing with the light. Imagine if I'd been with my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

When a pedestrian is physically in the crosswalk they have the right of way. When a car is driving down the road and there is no pedestrian physically in the crosswalk then the driver has the right of way.

Now if a pedestrian jumps off the curb into oncoming traffic without giving a drive enough time to react then the pedestrian is at fault.

VA law clearly states this: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title46.2/chapter8/section46.2-924/
The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway by stopping and remaining stopped until such pedestrian has passed the lane in which the vehicle is stopped.
No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic.

Notice it says "crossing" not waiting to cross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

No one has a right of way, one party needs to yield the right of way.

I seems you don’t understand the concept of “right of way.” The law requires that a driver yield to another who has the right of way. It’s the very essence of the concept of yielding, It also varies by state. In NJ drivers are required to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk but yield to those in an unmarked crosswalk. In Connecticut a driver must yield to pedestrians standing at the curb.

Pedestrians must also yield the right of way to vehicles. A crosswalk doesn't give you a right to step out into the crsswalk without due consideration for the rights of way for the drivers.

OMG what are you talking about. A pedestrian in a crosswalk has the right of way. There is no requirement for the pedestrian to "yield the right of way to vehicles" when they are in a crosswalk! It is YOUR responsibility to stop.

So many people on this thread who should never have gotten a driver's license

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

No one has a right of way, one party needs to yield the right of way.

I seems you don’t understand the concept of “right of way.” The law requires that a driver yield to another who has the right of way. It’s the very essence of the concept of yielding, It also varies by state. In NJ drivers are required to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk but yield to those in an unmarked crosswalk. In Connecticut a driver must yield to pedestrians standing at the curb.

Pedestrians must also yield the right of way to vehicles. A crosswalk doesn't give you a right to step out into the crsswalk without due consideration for the rights of way for the drivers.

OMG what are you talking about. A pedestrian in a crosswalk has the right of way. There is no requirement for the pedestrian to "yield the right of way to vehicles" when they are in a crosswalk! It is YOUR responsibility to stop.

So many people on this thread who should never have gotten a driver's license

No one is arguing that cars don't need to stop when a pedestrian is physically in the corsswalk, that is the law. However, that doesn't mean that a pedestrian should just jump off the curb into a crosswalk with disregard for traffic. VA law even states this "No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic"

It also means that car do not need to stop just because someone is waiting to cross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a difference between _in_ and _entering_.

If you enter it, you are in it.

To enter the crosswalk, you might need to yield the right of way first. If a car is 3 feet from the intersection and traveling 15mph, do you really expect them to be able to stop?

+1. This has happened to me several times around W-L High School. I’m so afraid of hitting a student that I slam on the brakes. I’ve been fortunate to not be rear-ended yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In DC on some roads if you don't start to cross you will never get across the road. For example, I live near Columbia Road in Adams Morgan that has a ton if midblock crosswalks and is never clear of traffic. You start to cross, make sure the car sees you and slows down, and then continue to cross.

And um, pedestrians ARE entitled to make the car stop, because stopping for pedestrians is the law! Of course realistically pedestrians need to make sure an oncoming driver sees them before getting too far into the road, but you're acting like pedestrians are asking you to do something crazy by expecting you to stop. They are asking you to follow the law.

THIS. 16th and S. The cars never stop and they also never stop coming. It's incredibly annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

It's fascinating how this has turned into drivers having the right of way and pedestrians having to wait, no matter what the law says.

No one has a right of way, one party needs to yield the right of way.

I seems you don’t understand the concept of “right of way.” The law requires that a driver yield to another who has the right of way. It’s the very essence of the concept of yielding, It also varies by state. In NJ drivers are required to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk but yield to those in an unmarked crosswalk. In Connecticut a driver must yield to pedestrians standing at the curb.

Pedestrians must also yield the right of way to vehicles. A crosswalk doesn't give you a right to step out into the crsswalk without due consideration for the rights of way for the drivers.

OMG what are you talking about. A pedestrian in a crosswalk has the right of way. There is no requirement for the pedestrian to "yield the right of way to vehicles" when they are in a crosswalk! It is YOUR responsibility to stop.

So many people on this thread who should never have gotten a driver's license

In a crosswalk, yes. You don't have an absolute right to ENTER the crosswalk whenever you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

Yeah we know you don’t want to stop. That’s why we step off the curb, due to selfish drivers like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drivers didn't stop before. You say "of course" but they didn't.

I head into the crosswalk because people don't stop when they see you waiting, even if they are required to, and because where I am going is as important as where you're going, and me waiting for several minutes so that you don't have to wait for a several seconds while I cross is ridiculous.

but here is where you are wrong. Drivers are only required to stop for pedestrians who are physically in the crosswalk. They are not required to stop just because someone is waiting to cross. Stopping to let someone cross can be dangerous if it is on a busy road. It is up to the pedestrian to wait until there is a break in traffic to cross.

Yeah we know you don’t want to stop. That’s why we step off the curb, due to selfish drivers like you.

can you not understand that sometimes stopping is dangerous for both the driver and the pedestrian? I drive down rt 50 and there are crosswalks without signals. I can't imagine coming to a complete stop on RT 50 to let someone cross. It's an accident waiting to happen.

There was also a girl who was killed near where I grew up because a nice guy did stop on a road with 2 lanes of traffic going in one direction. The driver in the second lane never saw the girl as she came out from behind the first car, she was hit and killed.

Maybe pedestrians should be a little more patient when crossing the street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Before the signs, of course the driver of a car would stop if a walker was in the cross walk... BUT the walker would not enter the crosswalk if they saw a car approaching... it's what your parents taught you, don't walk out in front of a moving car.

BUT now, people old enough to know better and the younger generation head directly into the cross walk, frequently without hesitation, in front of an on coming car. As a driver I have seen walkers 6-12 feet from the curb, head directly into the cross walk even though they see the oncoming car. Why would they trust that the incoming car would stop just because they now have the right of way ??? It's like they feel entitled to make the car stop.

Can we go back to crossing when traffic is clear ???

That's the advice our parents gave us.

Pedestrians in the crosswalk ALWAYS had the right of way. This isn't new. What's new is signage reminding drivers of the rule. Pedestrians should still look and not assume that the car will stop (because they didn't always stop, even before the signs!). But that's different from whether you think that pedestrians are making the right judgment call about whether or not to proceed.

[Anonymous]

This becomes even more of a problem where many cars are turning into a cross walk - the cross walk across U Street where Florida/18th and U NW all come together is terrible as drivers just gun their engines and keep coming regardless of people with kids, dogs etc.. in the cross walk. It is very dangerous. They keep putting the yellow yeild to pedestrians signs up which are run over within a day. Perhaps this could be addressed with cameras that take a picture once the pedestrian enters the cross walk if a car also enters the cross walk by weight or movement