Algebra 2 struggle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third algebra 2 teacher, confirming everything stated above.

I usually spend 2.5 days reviewing factoring (algebra 1 spends weeks on it), give a short quiz, and then move on to the actual factoring applications that are in our curriculum. This year I’ve spent 5 days on it so far this year and kids are still struggling. So many of them didn’t get anything out of virtual (thanks, photomath) and those choices are coming back to haunt them this year.

I added extra days here because this skill is so critical to the rest of the year, but I can’t do it for every unit. Kids are going to have to get help outside class, whether from me, khan academy, or an outside tutor.

The vitrual math classesare really going to hit the class of 2026 hard on their SATs and PSAT.

Algebra is the most crucial subject for those tests.

I pulled my kid from fcps and put her in Catholoc for 8th. They had been going in person since August 2020 and had not switched to computer math. Everything was pencil to paper.in Algebra I. Best decision ever.

My kid was so behind for the entire first semester, in spite of testing in the mid 90s on the Iowa the Catholic school used for placement. It seems that she learned almost nothing from virtual pre Algebra in 2020/21 at her fcps middle school. The Catholic school kids were miles ahead of her. It took all year to catch up, but she only had a middle grade in Algebra.

She retook Algebra I online over the summer to raise the grade. Based on what she learned in Catholic school, she did very well in the condensed summer class and felt much more confident in her math knowledge and skills.

My suggestion would be to drop them down to non honors if theh are struggling, and maybe consider some sort of in person (not online) Algebra supplemental class like at Kumon, that starts from the very basic.

Fundamental algebra skills and knowledge are way too important to miss.

Distance learning sucked. We are going to reap the consequences for years down the road for most of the kids, but especially those who learned to read and write 2020-2022, those who were middle schoolers learning algebra, and the teens who are dealing with the emotional scars of those 2 wasted years.

Honestly, my blood is boiling reading all the messages from teachers saying that kids just have to work harder because they didn't learn the material. The kids did not learn the material because virtual teaching -- which teachers overwhelmingly wanted for the 20-21 school year -- was terrible for many kids.

Terrible because so many CHEATED. Sorry you cheated, kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the input, especially from the teachers early on. He actually is getting help from someone in the family who literally used to teach this class until 2 years ago and even he said some of the questions on the last test my kid got were pretty intense and hard for him to interpret what exactly the question was asking for. I think another problem with these tests is that they have bizarre numbers of problems (17 or 14), so it doesn't take much to tank the grade. I am definitely looking into getting a tutor and he's been going to after school help sessions. I think its odd how many people are very dismissive of the the students. "Oh well, too bad, you better catch up!" Certainly there were some kids who just cheated in middle school and don't care, but there are also many kids who are suffering from the instruction during online learning, and who really WANT to do well. They're kids, that were just working with what they were given, through no fault of their own. This also happened with language. Last year, my kid went into second year language and discovered that his 8th grade teacher had taught him practically nothing, so yes, he had to learn enough to catch up. He worked very hard and was able to do it, but that certainly shouldn't have been ON HIM to make up for was never taught to him.

Some of this might also have to do with schools no longer using textbooks, instead having teachers come up with their own material.

If you have a mediocre teacher, especially in math, the lack of textbooks can really be detrimental to student learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the input, especially from the teachers early on. He actually is getting help from someone in the family who literally used to teach this class until 2 years ago and even he said some of the questions on the last test my kid got were pretty intense and hard for him to interpret what exactly the question was asking for. I think another problem with these tests is that they have bizarre numbers of problems (17 or 14), so it doesn't take much to tank the grade. I am definitely looking into getting a tutor and he's been going to after school help sessions. I think its odd how many people are very dismissive of the the students. "Oh well, too bad, you better catch up!" Certainly there were some kids who just cheated in middle school and don't care, but there are also many kids who are suffering from the instruction during online learning, and who really WANT to do well. They're kids, that were just working with what they were given, through no fault of their own. This also happened with language. Last year, my kid went into second year language and discovered that his 8th grade teacher had taught him practically nothing, so yes, he had to learn enough to catch up. He worked very hard and was able to do it, but that certainly shouldn't have been ON HIM to make up for was never taught to him.

You seem to be misunderstanding the posts.

No one is saying too bad, so sad to these kids.

What they seem to be saying is that because math is sequential, the teachers cannot go backwards in an algebra 2 class and start from scratch teaching algebra 1 to kids who, for whatever reason (cheating, distance learning format, bad teachers, technology, etc) did not learn algebra I during distance learning.

If they spend the level 2 class teaching level 1, the kids will not be prepared for pre calculus. And it is not fair to the kids who mastered algebra 1 to sit through a remedial algebra 1 class instead of learning algebra 2 and preparing for pre calculus.

At some point, your kid either needs to step down a level in math. Or get a tutor. Or do daily khan academy.

Saying it is now your kid's responsibility is not being unkind. It is being direct, practical and factual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third algebra 2 teacher, confirming everything stated above.

I usually spend 2.5 days reviewing factoring (algebra 1 spends weeks on it), give a short quiz, and then move on to the actual factoring applications that are in our curriculum. This year I’ve spent 5 days on it so far this year and kids are still struggling. So many of them didn’t get anything out of virtual (thanks, photomath) and those choices are coming back to haunt them this year.

I added extra days here because this skill is so critical to the rest of the year, but I can’t do it for every unit. Kids are going to have to get help outside class, whether from me, khan academy, or an outside tutor.

The vitrual math classesare really going to hit the class of 2026 hard on their SATs and PSAT.

Algebra is the most crucial subject for those tests.

I pulled my kid from fcps and put her in Catholoc for 8th. They had been going in person since August 2020 and had not switched to computer math. Everything was pencil to paper.in Algebra I. Best decision ever.

My kid was so behind for the entire first semester, in spite of testing in the mid 90s on the Iowa the Catholic school used for placement. It seems that she learned almost nothing from virtual pre Algebra in 2020/21 at her fcps middle school. The Catholic school kids were miles ahead of her. It took all year to catch up, but she only had a middle grade in Algebra.

She retook Algebra I online over the summer to raise the grade. Based on what she learned in Catholic school, she did very well in the condensed summer class and felt much more confident in her math knowledge and skills.

My suggestion would be to drop them down to non honors if theh are struggling, and maybe consider some sort of in person (not online) Algebra supplemental class like at Kumon, that starts from the very basic.

Fundamental algebra skills and knowledge are way too important to miss.

Distance learning sucked. We are going to reap the consequences for years down the road for most of the kids, but especially those who learned to read and write 2020-2022, those who were middle schoolers learning algebra, and the teens who are dealing with the emotional scars of those 2 wasted years.

Honestly, my blood is boiling reading all the messages from teachers saying that kids just have to work harder because they didn't learn the material. The kids did not learn the material because virtual teaching -- which teachers overwhelmingly wanted for the 20-21 school year -- was terrible for many kids.

Distance learning wasn't ideal for learning but not that bad if kids were actually motivated to learn. Worst case they could go to Khan Academy and teach themselves if they had a bad teacher, since KA is quite good. The real problem as others above have stated, is that many kids blatantly used DL to cheat their way through classes whenever they could. Now it's biting them back hard, esp. in math class. Rest assured, there are students who learned a lot during DL (sadly not a big %), because DL helped them cut through through all the other physical in person school BS, so they could learn a lot more at home on their own during 7 hours of DL. Those were likely the kids whose parents were either engaged or taught them values.

What a sanctimonious post.

Teaching your kids values has zero to do with how ineffective distance learning was for the vast majority of kids.

She means values so your kid doesn’t cheat. We are talking about kids who cheated.

That said, I disagree with the bolded statement above. DL was pretty bad, and I have two motivated kids. I am a SAHM so luckily I could be on them and help them, but it was a horrific experience. My youngest has terrible number sense now as a result and really struggles with math now. My oldest, luckily was not in pre algebra at the time but I can definitely see deficits in things such as long division, and long division with decimals. Not to mention spelling and writing deficits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third algebra 2 teacher, confirming everything stated above.

I usually spend 2.5 days reviewing factoring (algebra 1 spends weeks on it), give a short quiz, and then move on to the actual factoring applications that are in our curriculum. This year I’ve spent 5 days on it so far this year and kids are still struggling. So many of them didn’t get anything out of virtual (thanks, photomath) and those choices are coming back to haunt them this year.

I added extra days here because this skill is so critical to the rest of the year, but I can’t do it for every unit. Kids are going to have to get help outside class, whether from me, khan academy, or an outside tutor.

First Alg 2 teacher back again. I was referring to factoring in my post. We taught it this year like it was brand new and like they had never seen it before. They should have spent a significant amount of time factoring in Algebra 1. When the test came, many students could factor a basic quadratic or take out a GCF still. Like this poster said, we can’t spend so many days reviewing Alg 1 in every chapter. They will need outside help or drop to AFDA if they can.

They seemed to introduce some new methods for factoring with common core, like XBox.

Graphing lines is being taught in prealgebra now.

X-box has absolutely nothing to do with common core. It is a method of factoring that has been taught for decades (Split the middle term in a trinomial to create 4 terms that can be grouped). The "box" is just a graphic organizer for kids who struggle to stay organized in their thinking or benefit from a visual tool. I was introduced to it during my student teaching 20 years ago and used it with algebra 1 kids for years. In algebra 2 I try to wean them off of it for simpler (a=1) problems, but for a=/=1 it's a fabulous tool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

X-box has absolutely nothing to do with common core. It is a method of factoring that has been taught for decades (Split the middle term in a trinomial to create 4 terms that can be grouped). The "box" is just a graphic organizer for kids who struggle to stay organized in their thinking or benefit from a visual tool. I was introduced to it during my student teaching 20 years ago and used it with algebra 1 kids for years. In algebra 2 I try to wean them off of it for simpler (a=1) problems, but for a=/=1 it's a fabulous tool.

Did they use the box and actual term XBox 20 years ago? That would mean it was before the video games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

X-box has absolutely nothing to do with common core. It is a method of factoring that has been taught for decades (Split the middle term in a trinomial to create 4 terms that can be grouped). The "box" is just a graphic organizer for kids who struggle to stay organized in their thinking or benefit from a visual tool. I was introduced to it during my student teaching 20 years ago and used it with algebra 1 kids for years. In algebra 2 I try to wean them off of it for simpler (a=1) problems, but for a=/=1 it's a fabulous tool.

Did they use the box and actual term XBox 20 years ago? That would mean it was before the video games.

No, the name is a cutesy mnemonic. The concept of using X to find your two factors has been around at least since I was in middle school in the early 90s, so that's definitely not new, though we just wrote it as 4 terms in a line vs the box. Grouping using a box became popular when algebra tiles had a resurgence (because it matches the image created with the tiles). Those tiles were invented in the 40s, but became popular again in the 2000s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster above who’s blood is boiling, you are hearing what you want to hear. Teachers are saying students who cheated during the virtual year need to work harder to learn the material they didn’t learn when they used Photomath. The ones who didn’t cheat are doing fine with the intensive review we are providing.

If teachers believe that its only students who cheated who are suffering today, then that conveniently exempts them, doesn't it?

Let it go. Most of us are also parents. We get how bad virtual school was and wanted our own kids in school. Most of these kids took Algebra 1 back in middle school. What do you want? Us to blame teachers at another school for not teaching? Would you rather we not teach Algebra 2 but teach Algebra 1 since they didn’t have it in person and they next year they take….what?

I would like more compassion and creativity on finding a solution to help kids catch up rather than just saying "guess they must have cheated!" "I guess you just have to work harder! I have to keep the class moving!"

HS Math Teacher here (teaching Algebra 2 and Pre-cal this year). I am available after school every day as well as during lunch and "study period time." Struggling students are encouraged to come work with me to re-learn material from Algebra 1. Beyond that, parents can hire a tutor or set their kids up on Khan Academy or help their kids themselves. What more do you expect me to do? I do have to keep the class moving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Third algebra 2 teacher, confirming everything stated above.

I usually spend 2.5 days reviewing factoring (algebra 1 spends weeks on it), give a short quiz, and then move on to the actual factoring applications that are in our curriculum. This year I’ve spent 5 days on it so far this year and kids are still struggling. So many of them didn’t get anything out of virtual (thanks, photomath) and those choices are coming back to haunt them this year.

I added extra days here because this skill is so critical to the rest of the year, but I can’t do it for every unit. Kids are going to have to get help outside class, whether from me, khan academy, or an outside tutor.

The vitrual math classesare really going to hit the class of 2026 hard on their SATs and PSAT.

Algebra is the most crucial subject for those tests.

I pulled my kid from fcps and put her in Catholoc for 8th. They had been going in person since August 2020 and had not switched to computer math. Everything was pencil to paper.in Algebra I. Best decision ever.

My kid was so behind for the entire first semester, in spite of testing in the mid 90s on the Iowa the Catholic school used for placement. It seems that she learned almost nothing from virtual pre Algebra in 2020/21 at her fcps middle school. The Catholic school kids were miles ahead of her. It took all year to catch up, but she only had a middle grade in Algebra.

She retook Algebra I online over the summer to raise the grade. Based on what she learned in Catholic school, she did very well in the condensed summer class and felt much more confident in her math knowledge and skills.

My suggestion would be to drop them down to non honors if theh are struggling, and maybe consider some sort of in person (not online) Algebra supplemental class like at Kumon, that starts from the very basic.

Fundamental algebra skills and knowledge are way too important to miss.

Distance learning sucked. We are going to reap the consequences for years down the road for most of the kids, but especially those who learned to read and write 2020-2022, those who were middle schoolers learning algebra, and the teens who are dealing with the emotional scars of those 2 wasted years.

Honestly, my blood is boiling reading all the messages from teachers saying that kids just have to work harder because they didn't learn the material. The kids did not learn the material because virtual teaching -- which teachers overwhelmingly wanted for the 20-21 school year -- was terrible for many kids.

Terrible because so many CHEATED. Sorry you cheated, kids!

You both are right. DL was horrible for kids and schools took short cuts, which put students behind in math. ALSO, kids cheated! ALSO, administrators didn’t hold the cheating kids accountable! I mean with all the group work and “work together” mentality the lines between cheating and not have been very blurred.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you for all of the input, especially from the teachers early on. He actually is getting help from someone in the family who literally used to teach this class until 2 years ago and even he said some of the questions on the last test my kid got were pretty intense and hard for him to interpret what exactly the question was asking for. I think another problem with these tests is that they have bizarre numbers of problems (17 or 14), so it doesn't take much to tank the grade. I am definitely looking into getting a tutor and he's been going to after school help sessions. I think its odd how many people are very dismissive of the the students. "Oh well, too bad, you better catch up!" Certainly there were some kids who just cheated in middle school and don't care, but there are also many kids who are suffering from the instruction during online learning, and who really WANT to do well. They're kids, that were just working with what they were given, through no fault of their own. This also happened with language. Last year, my kid went into second year language and discovered that his 8th grade teacher had taught him practically nothing, so yes, he had to learn enough to catch up. He worked very hard and was able to do it, but that certainly shouldn't have been ON HIM to make up for was never taught to him.

Some of this might also have to do with schools no longer using textbooks, instead having teachers come up with their own material.

If you have a mediocre teacher, especially in math, the lack of textbooks can really be detrimental to student learning.

Completely agree. The positive about textbooks and standard tests is that the questions and explanations have been reviewed and vetted generally both internally and through actual teachers and students. If there are issues there is feedback and correction. Individual or very small groups of teachers creating their own content generally leads to lower quality ambiguous questions and explanations - you are a little blind to your own confusing content and there is not much review and feedback. Often without textbooks and standard material, the individual teachers are just adding a layer of confusion. The basic math subject material for Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry etc have not changed in a long, long time - there is little need for teachers to be rolling their own.

[Anonymous]

How much math do these kids have to take? Why not retake Algebra 1? As a senior you can graduate as long as you have completed Algebra 2 (and previously Geometry)

[Anonymous]

And yes they can go to college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much math do these kids have to take? Why not retake Algebra 1? As a senior you can graduate as long as you have completed Algebra 2 (and previously Geometry)

In my small Midwest MC/LMC high school 30 something years ago, college track for math was ending with Pre-Calculus. Only the kids going into the arts or communications etc. stopped at Algebra 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much math do these kids have to take? Why not retake Algebra 1? As a senior you can graduate as long as you have completed Algebra 2 (and previously Geometry)

If they got a passing grade the first time FCPS won’t let them retake it :/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much math do these kids have to take? Why not retake Algebra 1? As a senior you can graduate as long as you have completed Algebra 2 (and previously Geometry)

If they got a passing grade the first time FCPS won’t let them retake it :/

You can retake any high school class that you took in middle school, replacing the grade.

But I think you have to make that request by the start of the summer.