Options for opposing Connecticut Avenue changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess what I don’t understand is that if you scroll through the Twitter feeds of the pro bike lane crowd it’s filled with hysterical, border line self congratulatory “gotcha” tweets filled with pics cars, contractors, construction workers, first responders, etc. parked illegally in bike lanes all over the city. Along with pictures of broken and blighted bike lane infrastructure and desperate calls for 311 to fix things. But you somehow think CT will be any different? Thanks to your good reporting we already know how this will go. No thank you.

What it proves is that curb access is actually very important to economic activity in the city and taking this important public resource and giving it over to a small handful of cyclists doesn’t seem very wise.

There will be 24/7 curb access on one side of the street, something that doesn't exist today.

Almost all of the business have some form of alley or rear access, if needed. These days, those are barely used.

Both statements are ridiculous. Curb access currently exists on both sides of the street and will be removed. Additionally, “almost all” is a joke of a statement for business and also does not address deliveries to apartments or god forbid, emergency vehicle access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess what I don’t understand is that if you scroll through the Twitter feeds of the pro bike lane crowd it’s filled with hysterical, border line self congratulatory “gotcha” tweets filled with pics cars, contractors, construction workers, first responders, etc. parked illegally in bike lanes all over the city. Along with pictures of broken and blighted bike lane infrastructure and desperate calls for 311 to fix things. But you somehow think CT will be any different? Thanks to your good reporting we already know how this will go. No thank you.

What it proves is that curb access is actually very important to economic activity in the city and taking this important public resource and giving it over to a small handful of cyclists doesn’t seem very wise.

There will be 24/7 curb access on one side of the street, something that doesn't exist today.

Almost all of the business have some form of alley or rear access, if needed. These days, those are barely used.

Both statements are ridiculous. Curb access currently exists on both sides of the street and will be removed. Additionally, “almost all” is a joke of a statement for business and also does not address deliveries to apartments or god forbid, emergency vehicle access.

So you are saying you know better than traffic engineers worldwide who have cracked the code of how to solve for these questions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess what I don’t understand is that if you scroll through the Twitter feeds of the pro bike lane crowd it’s filled with hysterical, border line self congratulatory “gotcha” tweets filled with pics cars, contractors, construction workers, first responders, etc. parked illegally in bike lanes all over the city. Along with pictures of broken and blighted bike lane infrastructure and desperate calls for 311 to fix things. But you somehow think CT will be any different? Thanks to your good reporting we already know how this will go. No thank you.

That is on DDOT and DPW to maintain infrastructure. Why is this hard to understand?

So your theory is, the city won't take care of it and drivers will just park in it, so don't bother?

If that is the case, we may as well let all the roads and sidewalks, all the water and gas pipes and utility poles deteriorate as well.

I’m 100% certain the city won't take care of it and drivers will just park in it.

Kinda hard when there is a concrete barrier between the travel lanes and the bike lanes, but try again.

The snow plows, buses, and delivery trucks will destroy these barriers in fairly short order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it will be the death knell for many of the businesses on Connecticut Avenue in Cleveland Park. I haven't eaten at a restaurant there since they closed the service road, because it is now impossible to park after 4 pm. When they take away the rest of the parking, it will also be impossible to patronize the dry cleaners or Yes or any of the other businesses there even during the day, for those of us who are elders, disabled, or otherwise unable to pedal a bike or walk a significant distance with groceries or packages. (Much of Cleveland Park is significantly uphill from the avenue, fwiw.) Meantime, the restaurants and other businesses at Cathedral Commons are thriving, because there is ample parking at any time of day. Bike lines are great in concept, but they definite preference the relatively few and able-bodied.

1) studies show businesses benefit from bike lanes, not suffer, so your supposition is anecdotal at best and
2) if you already don't go to Cleveland Park, then the addition of bike lanes won't impact whether you support those businesses, or not.

That said, do you know where most of the support to Conn Ave business come from? All the people who live in the immediate vicinity of Connecticut Avenue. All of those high density buildings from Woodley Park to Chevy Chase have tens of thousands of residents, many more than all of the single family homes that are adjacent to the Avenue. The businesses should be making it a priority to cater to those residents rather than submit to the Maryland commuters who never give a thought to stopping at the businesses on their way out of the city.

There are no studies that show that “business benefit from bike lanes”. It’s a claim that’s repeated but not supported by any academic study so far.

Re (2), if you read carefully you'll see I said that I do support those businesses during the day, when I can use the curbside metered parking on Conn. Ave., which is available until 4pm. Under the new plan, that parking will go away.

If there's enough demand then someone will build a parking garage. Why are you looking for a free handout?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it will be the death knell for many of the businesses on Connecticut Avenue in Cleveland Park. I haven't eaten at a restaurant there since they closed the service road, because it is now impossible to park after 4 pm. When they take away the rest of the parking, it will also be impossible to patronize the dry cleaners or Yes or any of the other businesses there even during the day, for those of us who are elders, disabled, or otherwise unable to pedal a bike or walk a significant distance with groceries or packages. (Much of Cleveland Park is significantly uphill from the avenue, fwiw.) Meantime, the restaurants and other businesses at Cathedral Commons are thriving, because there is ample parking at any time of day. Bike lines are great in concept, but they definite preference the relatively few and able-bodied.

1) studies show businesses benefit from bike lanes, not suffer, so your supposition is anecdotal at best and
2) if you already don't go to Cleveland Park, then the addition of bike lanes won't impact whether you support those businesses, or not.

That said, do you know where most of the support to Conn Ave business come from? All the people who live in the immediate vicinity of Connecticut Avenue. All of those high density buildings from Woodley Park to Chevy Chase have tens of thousands of residents, many more than all of the single family homes that are adjacent to the Avenue. The businesses should be making it a priority to cater to those residents rather than submit to the Maryland commuters who never give a thought to stopping at the businesses on their way out of the city.

There are no studies that show that “business benefit from bike lanes”. It’s a claim that’s repeated but not supported by any academic study so far.

Here you go. Research from NYC on “road diets” that includes in some cases protected bike lanes. Vanderbilt Ave business saw “sustained, dramatic increase.”

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a commuter from close-in MD and have spent 20yrs going up and down Conn Ave. I spent a ton of money en route and near my downtown office during that time, including about 9 years of daycare, endless takeout lunches (and dinners), shopping for gifts, and personal care appointments. I don't do any of that any more - the commute is just so awful even before the bike lanes have appeared. No additional lane at rush hour, cars and trucks double parked or parked illegally on every single block, the random restaurant that has overtaken a lane of traffic across from Politics & Prose (seriously, who did the Rosemary Bistro pay off to squeeze traffic at an already busy intersection?), and of course the closure of Beach Drive to car traffic which pushes more cars to Conn. Driving on Connecticut is like some kind of Mad Max obstacle course - dangerous and unpleasant and still very slow.

Post-pandemic, I have total flexibility on where I work, and I'll work as little as possible from my office as a result of all this. I'm all for making biking safer, but making it harder to drive to work won't force most people onto bikes or even onto Metro - it will persuade many of us to work from home.

So let me get this straight: you live in MD, you weren’t shopping on Conn Ave before, and you now WFH most days so going into DC daily was never going to happen anyway? And we should care about your opinion why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Study after study of grid-connected cycling tracks and traffic calming suggests that this infrastructure is positive to businesses.

In NYC streets with bike lanes saw 24% higher retail sales growth than those without (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/2014-09-03-bicycle-path-data-analysis.pdf).

Salt Lake City experienced a 25% increase in sales tax revenue for areas with lanes vs those without (https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/10/06/salt-lake-city-cuts-car-parking-adds-bike-lanes-sees-retail-boost/)

But sure, there are no studies.

These are not “studies” that actually control effects of other variables. So again, you keep repeating the same statement but it’s false. Not even the sources you cite are making the claims that you are.

https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/dot-economic-benefits-of-sustainable-streets.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess what I don’t understand is that if you scroll through the Twitter feeds of the pro bike lane crowd it’s filled with hysterical, border line self congratulatory “gotcha” tweets filled with pics cars, contractors, construction workers, first responders, etc. parked illegally in bike lanes all over the city. Along with pictures of broken and blighted bike lane infrastructure and desperate calls for 311 to fix things. But you somehow think CT will be any different? Thanks to your good reporting we already know how this will go. No thank you.

What it proves is that curb access is actually very important to economic activity in the city and taking this important public resource and giving it over to a small handful of cyclists doesn’t seem very wise.

There will be 24/7 curb access on one side of the street, something that doesn't exist today.

Almost all of the business have some form of alley or rear access, if needed. These days, those are barely used.

Both statements are ridiculous. Curb access currently exists on both sides of the street and will be removed. Additionally, “almost all” is a joke of a statement for business and also does not address deliveries to apartments or god forbid, emergency vehicle access.

Isn’t there no parking during rush hour?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Study after study of grid-connected cycling tracks and traffic calming suggests that this infrastructure is positive to businesses.

In NYC streets with bike lanes saw 24% higher retail sales growth than those without (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/2014-09-03-bicycle-path-data-analysis.pdf).

Salt Lake City experienced a 25% increase in sales tax revenue for areas with lanes vs those without (https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/10/06/salt-lake-city-cuts-car-parking-adds-bike-lanes-sees-retail-boost/)

But sure, there are no studies.

You’re not doing yourself any favors by comparing central Manhattan to upper NW. There are almost zero single family homes in NYC and very few families as compared to Ward 3. Bike lanes are great if your young, childless, and live in a high rise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it will be the death knell for many of the businesses on Connecticut Avenue in Cleveland Park. I haven't eaten at a restaurant there since they closed the service road, because it is now impossible to park after 4 pm. When they take away the rest of the parking, it will also be impossible to patronize the dry cleaners or Yes or any of the other businesses there even during the day, for those of us who are elders, disabled, or otherwise unable to pedal a bike or walk a significant distance with groceries or packages. (Much of Cleveland Park is significantly uphill from the avenue, fwiw.) Meantime, the restaurants and other businesses at Cathedral Commons are thriving, because there is ample parking at any time of day. Bike lines are great in concept, but they definite preference the relatively few and able-bodied.

1) studies show businesses benefit from bike lanes, not suffer, so your supposition is anecdotal at best and
2) if you already don't go to Cleveland Park, then the addition of bike lanes won't impact whether you support those businesses, or not.

That said, do you know where most of the support to Conn Ave business come from? All the people who live in the immediate vicinity of Connecticut Avenue. All of those high density buildings from Woodley Park to Chevy Chase have tens of thousands of residents, many more than all of the single family homes that are adjacent to the Avenue. The businesses should be making it a priority to cater to those residents rather than submit to the Maryland commuters who never give a thought to stopping at the businesses on their way out of the city.

There are no studies that show that “business benefit from bike lanes”. It’s a claim that’s repeated but not supported by any academic study so far.

Re (2), if you read carefully you'll see I said that I do support those businesses during the day, when I can use the curbside metered parking on Conn. Ave., which is available until 4pm. Under the new plan, that parking will go away.

If there's enough demand then someone will build a parking garage. Why are you looking for a free handout?

Seriously? “Someone” will build a parking lot? And how is wanting a place to park in order to patronize a business looking for a free handout? I am happy to pay for parking, just as I do now at the meters. What I want is for my tax dollars to support the many and not the few.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it will be the death knell for many of the businesses on Connecticut Avenue in Cleveland Park. I haven't eaten at a restaurant there since they closed the service road, because it is now impossible to park after 4 pm. When they take away the rest of the parking, it will also be impossible to patronize the dry cleaners or Yes or any of the other businesses there even during the day, for those of us who are elders, disabled, or otherwise unable to pedal a bike or walk a significant distance with groceries or packages. (Much of Cleveland Park is significantly uphill from the avenue, fwiw.) Meantime, the restaurants and other businesses at Cathedral Commons are thriving, because there is ample parking at any time of day. Bike lines are great in concept, but they definite preference the relatively few and able-bodied.

1) studies show businesses benefit from bike lanes, not suffer, so your supposition is anecdotal at best and
2) if you already don't go to Cleveland Park, then the addition of bike lanes won't impact whether you support those businesses, or not.

That said, do you know where most of the support to Conn Ave business come from? All the people who live in the immediate vicinity of Connecticut Avenue. All of those high density buildings from Woodley Park to Chevy Chase have tens of thousands of residents, many more than all of the single family homes that are adjacent to the Avenue. The businesses should be making it a priority to cater to those residents rather than submit to the Maryland commuters who never give a thought to stopping at the businesses on their way out of the city.

There are no studies that show that “business benefit from bike lanes”. It’s a claim that’s repeated but not supported by any academic study so far.

Re (2), if you read carefully you'll see I said that I do support those businesses during the day, when I can use the curbside metered parking on Conn. Ave., which is available until 4pm. Under the new plan, that parking will go away.

If there's enough demand then someone will build a parking garage. Why are you looking for a free handout?

Seriously? “Someone” will build a parking lot? And how is wanting a place to park in order to patronize a business looking for a free handout? I am happy to pay for parking, just as I do now at the meters. What I want is for my tax dollars to support the many and not the few.

Meter parking is underpriced and dedicating a lane to parking means that can’t be used for more efficient purposes such as bike and bus lanes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess what I don’t understand is that if you scroll through the Twitter feeds of the pro bike lane crowd it’s filled with hysterical, border line self congratulatory “gotcha” tweets filled with pics cars, contractors, construction workers, first responders, etc. parked illegally in bike lanes all over the city. Along with pictures of broken and blighted bike lane infrastructure and desperate calls for 311 to fix things. But you somehow think CT will be any different? Thanks to your good reporting we already know how this will go. No thank you.

What it proves is that curb access is actually very important to economic activity in the city and taking this important public resource and giving it over to a small handful of cyclists doesn’t seem very wise.

There will be 24/7 curb access on one side of the street, something that doesn't exist today.

Almost all of the business have some form of alley or rear access, if needed. These days, those are barely used.

Both statements are ridiculous. Curb access currently exists on both sides of the street and will be removed. Additionally, “almost all” is a joke of a statement for business and also does not address deliveries to apartments or god forbid, emergency vehicle access.

So you are saying you know better than traffic engineers worldwide who have cracked the code of how to solve for these questions?

After the disastrous redesign of Wisconsin Avenue in Glover Park that had to be redone because it caused a traffic nightmare, I have little faith in DDOT’s ability to reconfigure streets.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think it will be the death knell for many of the businesses on Connecticut Avenue in Cleveland Park. I haven't eaten at a restaurant there since they closed the service road, because it is now impossible to park after 4 pm. When they take away the rest of the parking, it will also be impossible to patronize the dry cleaners or Yes or any of the other businesses there even during the day, for those of us who are elders, disabled, or otherwise unable to pedal a bike or walk a significant distance with groceries or packages. (Much of Cleveland Park is significantly uphill from the avenue, fwiw.) Meantime, the restaurants and other businesses at Cathedral Commons are thriving, because there is ample parking at any time of day. Bike lines are great in concept, but they definite preference the relatively few and able-bodied.[/quote]

1) studies show businesses benefit from bike lanes, not suffer, so your supposition is anecdotal at best and
2) if you already don't go to Cleveland Park, then the addition of bike lanes won't impact whether you support those businesses, or not.

That said, do you know where most of the support to Conn Ave business come from? All the people who live in the immediate vicinity of Connecticut Avenue. All of those high density buildings from Woodley Park to Chevy Chase have tens of thousands of residents, many more than all of the single family homes that are adjacent to the Avenue. The businesses should be making it a priority to cater to those residents rather than submit to the Maryland commuters who never give a thought to stopping at the businesses on their way out of the city.[/quote]
There are no studies that show that “business benefit from bike lanes”. It’s a claim that’s repeated but not supported by any academic study so far. [/quote]

Re (2), if you read carefully you'll see I said that I do support those businesses during the day, when I can use the curbside metered parking on Conn. Ave., which is available until 4pm. Under the new plan, that parking will go away. [/quote]


How is it more of a free handout to have public parking than a publicly funded bike lane that can only be used by the segment of the population able to bike up the serious hill that is CT ave - no elderly, people with kids, disabled people, or other people unable to use a bike for whatever reason. There should be a study of how many able and likely bikers there are to see the per capita cost to everyone else for this folly. We all live in a dense urban environment and need to make decisions that are best for the whole community. Btw I have no problem with the increased density but think doing that and simultaneously making the road less useful is insane


If there's enough demand then someone will build a parking garage. Why are you looking for a free handout?[/quote]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess what I don’t understand is that if you scroll through the Twitter feeds of the pro bike lane crowd it’s filled with hysterical, border line self congratulatory “gotcha” tweets filled with pics cars, contractors, construction workers, first responders, etc. parked illegally in bike lanes all over the city. Along with pictures of broken and blighted bike lane infrastructure and desperate calls for 311 to fix things. But you somehow think CT will be any different? Thanks to your good reporting we already know how this will go. No thank you.

What it proves is that curb access is actually very important to economic activity in the city and taking this important public resource and giving it over to a small handful of cyclists doesn’t seem very wise.

There will be 24/7 curb access on one side of the street, something that doesn't exist today.

Almost all of the business have some form of alley or rear access, if needed. These days, those are barely used.

Both statements are ridiculous. Curb access currently exists on both sides of the street and will be removed. Additionally, “almost all” is a joke of a statement for business and also does not address deliveries to apartments or god forbid, emergency vehicle access.

So you are saying you know better than traffic engineers worldwide who have cracked the code of how to solve for these questions?

Traffic engineers have not cracked the code. That's a ludicrous statement. And in this case it is clear that they did not take the entire consequences into account. For god's sake the only firehouse serving upper NW is on Connecticut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess what I don’t understand is that if you scroll through the Twitter feeds of the pro bike lane crowd it’s filled with hysterical, border line self congratulatory “gotcha” tweets filled with pics cars, contractors, construction workers, first responders, etc. parked illegally in bike lanes all over the city. Along with pictures of broken and blighted bike lane infrastructure and desperate calls for 311 to fix things. But you somehow think CT will be any different? Thanks to your good reporting we already know how this will go. No thank you.

What it proves is that curb access is actually very important to economic activity in the city and taking this important public resource and giving it over to a small handful of cyclists doesn’t seem very wise.

There will be 24/7 curb access on one side of the street, something that doesn't exist today.

Almost all of the business have some form of alley or rear access, if needed. These days, those are barely used.

Both statements are ridiculous. Curb access currently exists on both sides of the street and will be removed. Additionally, “almost all” is a joke of a statement for business and also does not address deliveries to apartments or god forbid, emergency vehicle access.

So you are saying you know better than traffic engineers worldwide who have cracked the code of how to solve for these questions?

After the disastrous redesign of Wisconsin Avenue in Glover Park that had to be redone because it caused a traffic nightmare, I have little faith in DDOT’s ability to reconfigure streets.

It's not like traffic is already backed up past the border during rush hour. What could go wrong with a 50% reduction in traffic lanes.