If you could do it all over again…IB vs AP High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP, we are a science and math family and it fits us better.

I’m a teacher and science and math seem stronger in AP vs. IB

IB science is strong. Issue is that our district required students choose a 2 year track...either bio or physics. They get a deeper, comprehensive look at one and ate lacking in the other IMO. Solution we came up with was to have the bio focused kids take a physics course in college, and the physics kid take some bio in college.

IMO both are important and a well educated person should have some basic knowledge of both disciplines.

It’s not just your school — the way the two-year IB courses fit together with the standard American curriculum, many kids come out without one of the three big sciences. I am leaning toward requiring my kid to take an intensive summer program in their third science, if they choose IB. I guess I’m just too provincially American to think you can be a well-educated person without at least taking introductory (high school level) courses in biology, chemistry, AND physics, and I find it kind of discrediting that IB seems to think otherwise. Not discrediting enough to forbid it, if it’s my kid’s choice, but it still concerns me. Why doesn’t IB think a complete science education is foundational?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP, we are a science and math family and it fits us better.

I’m a teacher and science and math seem stronger in AP vs. IB

IB science is strong. Issue is that our district required students choose a 2 year track...either bio or physics. They get a deeper, comprehensive look at one and ate lacking in the other IMO. Solution we came up with was to have the bio focused kids take a physics course in college, and the physics kid take some bio in college.

IMO both are important and a well educated person should have some basic knowledge of both disciplines.

It’s not just your school — the way the two-year IB courses fit together with the standard American curriculum, many kids come out without one of the three big sciences. I am leaning toward requiring my kid to take an intensive summer program in their third science, if they choose IB. I guess I’m just too provincially American to think you can be a well-educated person without at least taking introductory (high school level) courses in biology, chemistry, AND physics, and I find it kind of discrediting that IB seems to think otherwise. Not discrediting enough to forbid it, if it’s my kid’s choice, but it still concerns me. Why doesn’t IB think a complete science education is foundational?

Scientific knowledge grows and grows and HS remains 4 years. This is a conundrum. First and 2nd years of HS include earth sciences and chem in our district with Bio in 8th grade.

Computer science is also weak in our HS like many other places. We need a 5th year of HS just for all the science and computer knowledge gained since I was in HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP, we are a science and math family and it fits us better.

I’m a teacher and science and math seem stronger in AP vs. IB

? in what way?

My IB student took AP physics last year and got a 5. They are taking HL physics exam next year.

They are also taking MVC (AP) and HL IB math.

[Anonymous]

AP is better.

[Anonymous]

Can someone write in more simple terms what the IB program looks like. I have looked at the website, and while it looks very interesting, what does it actually look like in the 4 years your kid is in HS?

My DC is in AP and this has been our experience:

-AP is pretty much pick-and-choose which classes you want, as long as you meet the core requirements: English, Math, Science, Social Studies.
-There are AP languages- Spanish, Latin etc. but that's not a requirement as long as you finish your 2,3 or 4 years that's in your track.
-This year, our school said they are encouraging kids to take at least one AP class prior to graduation. Some kids take more than 5 by the time their graduate.
- There are no requirements for volunteer work (did I see this on the IB site?)
- There are AP electives- like Music Theory.
- In our school, there are about 25 AP courses to choose from. There are no required sequential courses except for AP Capstone but you are also not required to take both courses.
- In our school, kids were not allowed to start AP until 10th grade.
- From what I gather here at DCUM and in DC's cohort here's the number of APs taken per grade:

9th- none
10th- 1 or 2
11th- 2 to 4
12th- 3+

If anyone knows more, please feel free to add.
Would appreciate hearing from IB folks. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Also wanted to add that for college application purposes, I usually hear "We'd like to see an AP course in each of the core courses," which tells me that 4 APs taken in HS are good.

FCPS pays the fee for the first 5 AP tests. They cost $95 per test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP, hands down.

Look at the six top neighborhood high schools in FCPS: Langley, McLean, Oakton, Madison, Woodson, and Chantilly. They are all AP.

If IB provided any advantage, parents at these top schools would be demanding IB at their schools. They aren’t. In fact, when FCPS tried to saddle Woodson with IB, the parents organized to get the decision overturned.,

Conversely, IB is concentrated in the county’s poorest high schools, where parents are less vocal, and less likely to object to a program that infatuated FCPS for a brief period in the late 90s and early 00s, but really hasn’t worked out very well. Schools like Annandale, Justice, Lewis, and Mount Vernon are demonstrably weaker than they were 20 years ago pre-IB.

As for IB’s heavy emphasis on writing, there is also a lot of writing requires in many AP courses, including the AP Capstone courses. However, AP courses generally focus more on the acquisition of substantive knowledge, and there’s less busy work.

What about Marshall? Marshall is a good school and also an IB school. Noticed you didn't mention it because it didn't fit your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Marshall’s enrollment increased with development near Tysons, but 75-80% of Marshall seniors graduate not on track to get an IB diploma. There are better options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone write in more simple terms what the IB program looks like. I have looked at the website, and while it looks very interesting, what does it actually look like in the 4 years your kid is in HS?

My DC is in AP and this has been our experience:

-AP is pretty much pick-and-choose which classes you want, as long as you meet the core requirements: English, Math, Science, Social Studies.
-There are AP languages- Spanish, Latin etc. but that's not a requirement as long as you finish your 2,3 or 4 years that's in your track.
-This year, our school said they are encouraging kids to take at least one AP class prior to graduation. Some kids take more than 5 by the time their graduate.
- There are no requirements for volunteer work (did I see this on the IB site?)
- There are AP electives- like Music Theory.
- In our school, there are about 25 AP courses to choose from. There are no required sequential courses except for AP Capstone but you are also not required to take both courses.
- In our school, kids were not allowed to start AP until 10th grade.
- From what I gather here at DCUM and in DC's cohort here's the number of APs taken per grade:

9th- none
10th- 1 or 2
11th- 2 to 4
12th- 3+

If anyone knows more, please feel free to add.
Would appreciate hearing from IB folks. Thank you!

Where is this?

In MCPS, you can take AP classes in 9th grade - AP Computer Science Principles and AP Gov.

My older DC is in IB. Unless your schools has the MYP program, IB classes don't start until 11th grade or so, except for IB precalc in 10th.

My DC is in a school that has MYP, so their 9th/10th grade classes are geared to set them up for the IB Diploma program starting in 11th.

IB classes:
Language lit
Foreign Language - DC took both the AP and IB exams in this foreign language in the same year.
Social studies - history, econ, etc.
Science - bio, chem, physics
math -most of the kids take precalc by 10th grade. DC took AP BC Calc in 11th grade, and now taking MVC and HL math senior year
arts & electives

There are SL (standard level) courses and HL (higher level) courses. The higher level courses are a 2 yr course, and you must take a minimum of 3 HL courses. DC's HL are STEM related.
Each class has an internal assessment research paper, and one additional course that must be taken is the "Theory of Knowledge" which also requires a research paper. As stated, IB program is a lot of writing.

For the Diploma, you take 6 IB exams:

Student must earn at least 24 total points. No exam may be below a score of 2 ( scoring is 1 to 7). There is a minimum point you can score for HL and for SL.
(45 total pts. possible – 42 from IB subjects + 3 from TOK/EE)

My DC has taken both AP and IB classes and exams. DC self studied for one or two of the AP exams . Lots of IB students do that.

From what I hear, AP is mostly about breadth, but IB is mostly about depth.

For example, in DC's IB World History class, they picked like three topics and delved into it quite deeply. Some of the stuff DC was learning I didn't realize. Whereas in AP history, you just go over the events and dates -- pretty boring stuff, really. DC really hated history (including AP US History) until IB history when they really delved into some of these topics. Then, it got really interesting.

So, really, it depends on your kid.

[Anonymous]

^yes, there is a requirement for service for IB

Creativity-Activity-Service (CAS), but it's not a difficult requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can’t you take AP classes and exams in the IB program?

Yes. My kid is in an IB program and they are told to study for the IB test. If you do that, you can take the AP test and likely do well.

(Will find out if that is actually true!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone write in more simple terms what the IB program looks like. I have looked at the website, and while it looks very interesting, what does it actually look like in the 4 years your kid is in HS?

My DC is in AP and this has been our experience:

-AP is pretty much pick-and-choose which classes you want, as long as you meet the core requirements: English, Math, Science, Social Studies.
-There are AP languages- Spanish, Latin etc. but that's not a requirement as long as you finish your 2,3 or 4 years that's in your track.
-This year, our school said they are encouraging kids to take at least one AP class prior to graduation. Some kids take more than 5 by the time their graduate.
- There are no requirements for volunteer work (did I see this on the IB site?)
- There are AP electives- like Music Theory.
- In our school, there are about 25 AP courses to choose from. There are no required sequential courses except for AP Capstone but you are also not required to take both courses.
- In our school, kids were not allowed to start AP until 10th grade.
- From what I gather here at DCUM and in DC's cohort here's the number of APs taken per grade:

9th- none
10th- 1 or 2
11th- 2 to 4
12th- 3+

If anyone knows more, please feel free to add.
Would appreciate hearing from IB folks. Thank you!


I’ll answer from a traditional IBDP perspective. This is from International School abroad. Your school offering/setup may differ. So, ask questions.

The IBDP program is a two-year program, so, it is junior and senior year
Students are required to select one course from each of the following six subject areas, three at a High Level (HL), three at a Standard Level (SL).

1) Lang/Lit (This is English)
2) Language Acquisition (this is the continuation of the Foreign Language)
3) Individuals and Societies (This is Economics, Psychology, Geography, History, Philosophy. Each school’s offerings are different, and they don’t all offer all, so check.)
4) Sciences (This is Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Computer Science. Again each school’s offerings may vary)
5) Mathematics (At High Level, it is HARDER than AP MATH, at Standard Level, it is EASIER than AP MATH …My spouse is a MS/HS Math Teacher and Tutor so this is an opinion of someone with expertise)
6) The Arts… (This can be swapped out for another subject in category 3,4,5… which is what my DC did)

So, as an example My DC did HL Economics, HL Biology, HL Psychology, and English SL, Spanish SL, Math SL
They still had 4 years of Foreign Language, 4 Years of English, 4 Years of Science, 4 Years of Math, And they had 2 years of Economics which is helping immensely with Microeconomics and Macroeconomics in College. Some Schools allow 4 HLs/2SLs. Again your school may vary.

Additionally, IBDP Candidates must
Submit a Theory of Knowledge Essay and Presentation
Complete Community Service Action Requirements
Conduct independent research in one of the six categories above, and subject a 4000 word research paper.

This biggest difference between AP and IB is the Assessments or “tests”. Throughout all the subject areas across the DP these are application and analysis based ESSAYS. That includes the Math and Sciences. It is not Solve This Equation or Solve this Problem, and Select the right answer. It is - Given What You Know About Theories and The Body of Knowledge, How Would You Go About Solving This, WHICH YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN IN CLASS BEFORE. Write Out your Analysis. In Psychology HL was - know understand and recall ALL The Psychology Studies and White Papers and Their Findings…. Based on what you know, Which Studies and Findings Are Applicable to This Case Which Again, You Have Never Seen Before….Defend Your Position.

It is not for everyone.
STEM kids who HATE to write, should NOT go into the IBDP. This is one of my nephews. He is doing AP all the way.
Also STEM kids who WANT to take AP Chem AP Bio AP Physics, AP Math AB, AP Stats, etc… should do AP because at Most and IBDP Kid is going to get a Math and just two Sciences in the IBDP

However, for kids who have the writing competence and the work ethic, the IBDP is FAR MORE WORK than 5-8 AP’s, I think the IBDP is absolutely better preparation for college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone write in more simple terms what the IB program looks like. I have looked at the website, and while it looks very interesting, what does it actually look like in the 4 years your kid is in HS?

My DC is in AP and this has been our experience:

-AP is pretty much pick-and-choose which classes you want, as long as you meet the core requirements: English, Math, Science, Social Studies.
-There are AP languages- Spanish, Latin etc. but that's not a requirement as long as you finish your 2,3 or 4 years that's in your track.
-This year, our school said they are encouraging kids to take at least one AP class prior to graduation. Some kids take more than 5 by the time their graduate.
- There are no requirements for volunteer work (did I see this on the IB site?)
- There are AP electives- like Music Theory.
- In our school, there are about 25 AP courses to choose from. There are no required sequential courses except for AP Capstone but you are also not required to take both courses.
- In our school, kids were not allowed to start AP until 10th grade.
- From what I gather here at DCUM and in DC's cohort here's the number of APs taken per grade:

9th- none
10th- 1 or 2
11th- 2 to 4
12th- 3+

If anyone knows more, please feel free to add.
Would appreciate hearing from IB folks. Thank you!


I’ll answer from a traditional IBDP perspective. This is from International School abroad. Your school offering/setup may differ. So, ask questions.

The IBDP program is a two-year program, so, it is junior and senior year
Students are required to select one course from each of the following six subject areas, three at a High Level (HL), three at a Standard Level (SL).

1) Lang/Lit (This is English)
2) Language Acquisition (this is the continuation of the Foreign Language)
3) Individuals and Societies (This is Economics, Psychology, Geography, History, Philosophy. Each school’s offerings are different, and they don’t all offer all, so check.)
4) Sciences (This is Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Computer Science. Again each school’s offerings may vary)
5) Mathematics (At High Level, it is HARDER than AP MATH, at Standard Level, it is EASIER than AP MATH …My spouse is a MS/HS Math Teacher and Tutor so this is an opinion of someone with expertise)
6) The Arts… (This can be swapped out for another subject in category 3,4,5… which is what my DC did)

So, as an example My DC did HL Economics, HL Biology, HL Psychology, and English SL, Spanish SL, Math SL
They still had 4 years of Foreign Language, 4 Years of English, 4 Years of Science, 4 Years of Math, And they had 2 years of Economics which is helping immensely with Microeconomics and Macroeconomics in College. Some Schools allow 4 HLs/2SLs. Again your school may vary.

Additionally, IBDP Candidates must
Submit a Theory of Knowledge Essay and Presentation
Complete Community Service Action Requirements
Conduct independent research in one of the six categories above, and subject a 4000 word research paper.

This biggest difference between AP and IB is the Assessments or “tests”. Throughout all the subject areas across the DP these are application and analysis based ESSAYS. That includes the Math and Sciences. It is not Solve This Equation or Solve this Problem, and Select the right answer. It is - Given What You Know About Theories and The Body of Knowledge, How Would You Go About Solving This, WHICH YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN IN CLASS BEFORE. Write Out your Analysis. In Psychology HL was - know understand and recall ALL The Psychology Studies and White Papers and Their Findings…. Based on what you know, Which Studies and Findings Are Applicable to This Case Which Again, You Have Never Seen Before….Defend Your Position.

It is not for everyone.
STEM kids who HATE to write, should NOT go into the IBDP. This is one of my nephews. He is doing AP all the way.
Also STEM kids who WANT to take AP Chem AP Bio AP Physics, AP Math AB, AP Stats, etc… should do AP because at Most and IBDP Kid is going to get a Math and just two Sciences in the IBDP

However, for kids who have the writing competence and the work ethic, the IBDP is FAR MORE WORK than 5-8 AP’s, I think the IBDP is absolutely better preparation for college.

Sorry my answer got embedded in your question. Hope it helps anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IB for the ability to write and analyze in college. AP for keeping HS less intense and still getting into college.

IB impact on mental health in college is just not worth it.

I think IB has been really great for my DC. Not just for the incredible improvement in writing, but the format of the coursework is more interesting for him. It’s much less about memorization and much more about the understanding and critical thinking. There are no multiple choice tests. He loves the projects. There is so much flexibility to what the kids get to choose for projects for their IAs and EAs - they get to really pursue their passions and mix coursework from different classes into them. It’s a fantastic program. I’m not sure if it’s for everyone and I can understand why people would choose AP. He had to give up orchestra, which he loves, because he can’t fit it in with his other required courses. But the overall education and experience in IB is far better, at least for my DS, than AP would have been. I’m really glad our HS offers it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Marshall’s enrollment increased with development near Tysons, but 75-80% of Marshall seniors graduate not on track to get an IB diploma. There are better options.

This is interesting. Where can we find which students are on track officially or have received full IB program per FCPS high school? I’d love to see the breakdown and also which percentage graduate per high school and SAT scores per high school…and if anyone know this one — which schools students get accepted into per high school?