Any way to have an employee fired from a federal job without the firstline supervisor doing it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You seem to have an anxiety issue

I do. Hence why I don’t want to send a removal memo and why I asked if someone else could do this? I realize what this would do to my reputation but my mental health is more important right now. I haven’t slept in 3 days thinking about this issue.

Is your supervisor forcing you to fire this person? I saw this happening twice at my agency. The managers lost their jobs / got demoted, nothing happened to the official director, and the employees got money to settle.

At this point, I don't care if I get demoted. I can't really think straight about this situation anymore. I don't know what's right and I just want out of this decision-making process.

Honestly you should get demoted. Being a mid-level Fed manager does not seem worth it to me.

I agree. Middle management is something you have to want, not just take to be promoted.

OP - if you have trouble with this, you need to assess your overall performance as a manager. I don’t say that to be a jerk. Many middle managers are poor at making decisions and worry too much about themselves instead of their Staff. Your job is partly to protect the team. You have someone on your team making it harder for everyone else and wasting taxpayer money. It’s your job to fix it. Go do your job. This person is likely to go to the Union (if you have one) or sue, then make 100% certain you have a real case for dismissal. HR will help work it out. Get therapy, if needed. I saw an EAP counselor for anxiety I had working with a coworker and it was an excellent support service that really helped me.

I guess I feel like if I fire this individual that I will be looking over my shoulder for the rest of my life and it’s all for what. To make management happy?

Is this person really that unstable?

It’s not to make management happy. It’s for the reasons I outlined above. To take the toxicity out of your group, protect the workload of those who work for you other than this person, to get a job for the viable candidate likely waiting to do good work in a Government organization, and to refrain from wasting Federal dollars for this underperforming person. This is a management skill. The fact that you don’t see any benefit to your team and only see consequences for yourself is a very bad indicator of your management style.

I agree. Get used to pretty much always having someone unhappy or ticked off at you. It goes with the territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long have you been a manager OP? I am asking to determine if higher level management promoted you to have you take the fall for firing the poor performer.

They transferred this individual to me 8 months after becoming a first time supervisor.

Why in the world did you take promotion? There is no upside in Fed service. That’s why we have to hire outside agency for all management

At my agency, they promote brown nosers without technical skills to managers. People take it because they are desperate to make 15 after decades of being stuck on the 14 scale. These are the people who don't have the education and skills to become technical experts. It's a terrible position, because both the office directors and the staff despise them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long have you been a manager OP? I am asking to determine if higher level management promoted you to have you take the fall for firing the poor performer.

They transferred this individual to me 8 months after becoming a first time supervisor.

Why in the world did you take promotion? There is no upside in Fed service. That’s why we have to hire outside agency for all management

At my agency, they promote brown nosers without technical skills to managers. People take it because they are desperate to make 15 after decades of being stuck on the 14 scale. These are the people who don't have the education and skills to become technical experts. It's a terrible position, because both the office directors and the staff despise them.

True, but then the outsiders often don’t understand government work or don’t respect their Staff. Federal management is often terrible.

The best manager I ever had was disliked by his management. He cared too much and was too effective I guess without playing all the games they wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long have you been a manager OP? I am asking to determine if higher level management promoted you to have you take the fall for firing the poor performer.

They transferred this individual to me 8 months after becoming a first time supervisor.

Why in the world did you take promotion? There is no upside in Fed service. That’s why we have to hire outside agency for all management

At my agency, they promote brown nosers without technical skills to managers. People take it because they are desperate to make 15 after decades of being stuck on the 14 scale. These are the people who don't have the education and skills to become technical experts. It's a terrible position, because both the office directors and the staff despise them.

True, but then the outsiders often don’t understand government work or don’t respect their Staff. Federal management is often terrible.

The best manager I ever had was disliked by his management. He cared too much and was too effective I guess without playing all the games they wanted.

Same, I wonder if we had the same manager. He protected the staff and was not a yes man to the upper management, so he got demoted.

[Anonymous]

I still can’t believe that the only way to get rid of someone is to have their direct supervisor do it. What a broken system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still can’t believe that the only way to get rid of someone is to have their direct supervisor do it. What a broken system.

I mean, the IG can have them walked out, too. That’s happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still can’t believe that the only way to get rid of someone is to have their direct supervisor do it. What a broken system.

What's broken about this? He reports to you, you aren't happy with his performance, you need to let him go. Are you hoping that tooth fairy will step in to do your job?

The private sector works exactly the same. Management means bigger responsibilities. Not capable to put your big boy pants on and deal with people? Then don't be a manager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still can’t believe that the only way to get rid of someone is to have their direct supervisor do it. What a broken system.

What's broken about this? He reports to you, you aren't happy with his performance, you need to let him go. Are you hoping that tooth fairy will step in to do your job?

The private sector works exactly the same. Management means bigger responsibilities. Not capable to put your big boy pants on and deal with people? Then don't be a manager.

.

Human Resources typically does this in the private sector not a direct supervisor. OP assumed H/R did it in their agency and not the actual supervisor. I’ve worked in private schools, accounting firms, and retail and it’s always HR. Not the supervisor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still can’t believe that the only way to get rid of someone is to have their direct supervisor do it. What a broken system.

What's broken about this? He reports to you, you aren't happy with his performance, you need to let him go. Are you hoping that tooth fairy will step in to do your job?

The private sector works exactly the same. Management means bigger responsibilities. Not capable to put your big boy pants on and deal with people? Then don't be a manager.

.

Human Resources typically does this in the private sector not a direct supervisor. OP assumed H/R did it in their agency and not the actual supervisor. I’ve worked in private schools, accounting firms, and retail and it’s always HR. Not the supervisor.

That's not my experience. The manager sets up the expectations, discusses performance, crafts the PIP with the employee, and delivers the news. The HR does the paperwork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still can’t believe that the only way to get rid of someone is to have their direct supervisor do it. What a broken system.

What's broken about this? He reports to you, you aren't happy with his performance, you need to let him go. Are you hoping that tooth fairy will step in to do your job?

The private sector works exactly the same. Management means bigger responsibilities. Not capable to put your big boy pants on and deal with people? Then don't be a manager.

.

Human Resources typically does this in the private sector not a direct supervisor. OP assumed H/R did it in their agency and not the actual supervisor. I’ve worked in private schools, accounting firms, and retail and it’s always HR. Not the supervisor.

That's not my experience. The manager sets up the expectations, discusses performance, crafts the PIP with the employee, and delivers the news. The HR does the paperwork.

+1 how in the world would HR just decide to fire someone? It's always the manager who is deciding if someone's performance is up to snuff. Unless it's like a reorg and a whole division being eliminated etc.