How did your HS Freshman perform on AP exams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS who was straight A grades all year in APUSH and he studied like a demon for the exam, only got a 3

It's called grade inflation.

No it isn't. He is kind of a social studies genius. That's his thing.

[Anonymous]

It is pretty ridiculous for freshman to be taking AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS who was straight A grades all year in APUSH and he studied like a demon for the exam, only got a 3

It's called grade inflation.

No it isn't. He is kind of a social studies genius. That's his thing.

The AP examiners clearly did not agree.

[Anonymous]

Is it true that kids with barely legible handwriting (and no accommodations) can't get higher than a 3?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Freshman daughter got a 4 on AP Gov exam. She had a tutor to prep (her request, not mine).

Where did you find the tutor?

Wyzant (it was via Zoom but actually quite good)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else think this is a sign that something is off? Full disclosure, I think you should have to sit for the exam to receive AP credit (I think school districts should pay for it). To get the GPA and rigor bump of an AP but not be prepared for the test makes no sense to me.

This is a systemic problem - so understand why kids would not subject themselves to the test if it doesn’t matter - but I think it devalues the AP distinction.

Agree. It’s the AP arms race at its finest. Thank you, Jay Matthews and the Challenge Index. Combine that with grade inflation and easy standards and this is the result: kids getting As in the class but 3 or under on the exam.

Full disclosure for me is that my kids go to private schools that do not offer APs. I feel very strongly that the CB has their hooks in our education system and is laughing all the way to the bank. I get it, though, if your school offers AP, you basically have to take it for college purposes.

I don’t think you understand AP courses very well. Many of them have challenging and difficult content and give you a good foundation for college.
I would say it takes a few years to figure out how to optimally teach an AP course. So if you have a teacher who has taught it for 3 years or less, they could be doing their best but will likely fall short. It is often tricky to get the pacing right. It took me until year 5 when I felt I finally nailed it and my students scores dramatically improved. I also teach an AP course that is considered very difficult and has a low pass rate

My son just had World History taught by a very inexperienced, perhaps first-time, teacher. He was nice, but oh so bad! Most of the class lost all hope of a good grade or a good exam score. My son trudged on until the bitter end, squeaked by with a final grade of A (by the seat of his pants) and got a 5 in the exam. But it was a terrible experience compare to his other APs with experienced teachers. I only wish someone could give these new teachers more training right from the start, PP. When college admissions are on the line, it's not fair for AP students to get a dud teacher.

With the teacher shortage, this is only going to get worse.
Training is helpful but can only do so much. Every school is different. Student populations are different every where including background knowledge and preparation coming into class. How many other courses is the teacher teaching? Every teacher has their own style and needs to adapt content to how they teach best. Is this even the teacher’s area of expertise or is the teacher one step ahead of the kids. It takes a few years for everything to fall into place and that is if you start with a smart hardworking teacher who wants to improve

I am a very experienced teacher who teaches honors and AP. I appreciate the desire for experience and I agree that students will have a better outcome with an experienced teacher. There are several problems with this line of thought, however:

1. It also takes tremendous experience to teach on-level classes. There is usually more need for differentiation and scaffolding, which are skills that come with experience. Students registered for those classes equally deserve experienced teachers. I worked in a school that prioritized on-level classes and placed experienced teachers there in an understandable effort to help lower-performing students.

2. Everybody has to start somewhere. I am a well-regarded teacher, but I didn’t do as well my first year teaching advanced courses. There is a huge learning curve! I spent every single evening preparing for the next day, researching in preparation for anticipated questions, etc. 70-hour weeks were normal. Perhaps I did a disservice to some students that year because I was so inexperienced, but how would I have gotten to be the teacher I am today without that year?

3. Even your inexperienced teachers in an AP or IB level class have received extra training. Many voluntarily go to trainings over the summer to learn the latest changes to exams, required skills, etc. Your “dud” teacher mentioned above did have this training.

I wish all students could benefit from experienced teachers, but that isn’t reality. It’s actually going to become less common as teachers continue to retire or quit. I’m planning on sticking with it because I am generally an optimist who can push aside the worst parts of the job, but I’m watching coworkers leave every year and most are simply leaving teaching.
[/quote

I agree that the on level students need the experienced teacher more. The kids who are truly accelerated learners will be fine. They will figure it out. We need to work on bringing up the bottom and middle.

If the kid can’t keep up in AP, they should not take it. We have to stop encouraging acceleration for kids who aren’t ready just to meet some false standard for college.

[Anonymous]

Freshman son got a 3 on AP World. He was happy with it, and honestly I was relieved that he passed. He got an A in the course and had an excellent teacher. He said that he wished he had studied more, but his writing skills still need some work. I'm grateful for what he learned in the class, particularly around writing. AP World is the only option for 9th graders at his private, and he'll take AP Modern European next year. (Again, the only AP option for his grade.) If he could just pull 3s and 4s from here on out, I'd be fine with it. He's a great kid but not destined for a T20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone else think this is a sign that something is off? Full disclosure, I think you should have to sit for the exam to receive AP credit (I think school districts should pay for it). To get the GPA and rigor bump of an AP but not be prepared for the test makes no sense to me.

This is a systemic problem - so understand why kids would not subject themselves to the test if it doesn’t matter - but I think it devalues the AP distinction.

Agree. It’s the AP arms race at its finest. Thank you, Jay Matthews and the Challenge Index. Combine that with grade inflation and easy standards and this is the result: kids getting As in the class but 3 or under on the exam.

Full disclosure for me is that my kids go to private schools that do not offer APs. I feel very strongly that the CB has their hooks in our education system and is laughing all the way to the bank. I get it, though, if your school offers AP, you basically have to take it for college purposes.

I don’t think you understand AP courses very well. Many of them have challenging and difficult content and give you a good foundation for college.
I would say it takes a few years to figure out how to optimally teach an AP course. So if you have a teacher who has taught it for 3 years or less, they could be doing their best but will likely fall short. It is often tricky to get the pacing right. It took me until year 5 when I felt I finally nailed it and my students scores dramatically improved. I also teach an AP course that is considered very difficult and has a low pass rate

They give an excellent foundation for college. They wee designed by teams of college professors and high school teachers and are graded by these same groups. I regularly had my students come back to tell me their freshman and sophomore years of college were significantly easier for them than for their classmates who hadn't taken AP (or IB) classes.

Interesting because there are multiple posts here and elsewhere from college profs who feel these test do not prepare kids for college:

College prof here. Content coverage is solid but, generally speaking, insufficient depth, critical thinking, and analytical writing to prep for a college course imo. IB courses much more effective in those respects. I consider AP courses valuable to a point but students who receive AP course credit and opt out of college intro courses do not tend to do well in intermediate and UL coursework.

I think it may depend on the subject. My kid is at an Ivy and went straight into multi variable calculus after getting a 5 in AP Calculus BC. Had no trouble keeping up and got an A. The Ivy also put my kid in an advanced chemistry class after they got a 4 in AP Chem. It was a little bit of a struggle to keep up but no real issue and kid got an A- in the advanced college class. Also, went straight into the 2nd year of college physics after taking AP Physics and had no issues keeping up. My kid was not able to coast their freshman year of college. They worked very hard but the AP classes from a mediocre public had prepared them well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Freshman son got a 3 on AP World. He was happy with it, and honestly I was relieved that he passed. He got an A in the course and had an excellent teacher. He said that he wished he had studied more, but his writing skills still need some work. I'm grateful for what he learned in the class, particularly around writing. AP World is the only option for 9th graders at his private, and he'll take AP Modern European next year. (Again, the only AP option for his grade.) If he could just pull 3s and 4s from here on out, I'd be fine with it. He's a great kid but not destined for a T20.

It's pretty insane to expect a 9th grader to do well on AP World History, PP. In MCPS it's usually taken in 11th grade, and believe me, those two years of extra maturity and organizational skills count for a lot. World History is the hardest humanities AP, period. Far more work than US History and US Gov& Pol/NSL. Far harder than European History (it'll be a breeze next year).

You could mention to the school that their AP order is completely messed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it true that kids with barely legible handwriting (and no accommodations) can't get higher than a 3?

My kid got a 3 and almost every practice scored a 5 on the multiple choice. DC has
bad handwriting and horrible spelling. We think it was an issue. Top student in class at well-regarded school. How can you get accommodations to type?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:09:52 again. My son is a rising senior, and with hindsight, I can see that the grade in the class only reflects the potential AP score IF the teacher is an experienced and intelligent teacher. There are two components to an AP class: teaching the material, and preparing students for the test. If you do the former but not the latter, given that a lot of the AP tests required responses written in a specific way, the student will not do well on the test.

After that difficult first pandemic year, my son had a mix of excellent teachers, and 2 duds, who did not prepare him adequately. But with experience, he could tell that he was not being prepared, and we hired tutors to bolster those two classes. That's because my son is a perfectionist, and he hates not having a top score. Otherwise obviously I'd have saved my money!

This. For one of my kid’s AP classes this year, the teacher was not only still teaching new material up to the test, but a big chunk of the last unit was taught after the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS who was straight A grades all year in APUSH and he studied like a demon for the exam, only got a 3

It's called grade inflation.

No it isn't. He is kind of a social studies genius. That's his thing.

The AP examiners clearly did not agree.

This. He isn’t a social studies genius with a 3. I have no idea if grades were inflated or not but there are right and wrong things on the ap exams. Your kid was missing a large section of them.

[Anonymous]

4 on APUSH last year. Most friends got 3s/4s. Had a great teacher, but all the learning disruption made it hard to get everything covered

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS who was straight A grades all year in APUSH and he studied like a demon for the exam, only got a 3

It's called grade inflation.

No it isn't. He is kind of a social studies genius. That's his thing.

The AP examiners clearly did not agree.

This. He isn’t a social studies genius with a 3. I have no idea if grades were inflated or not but there are right and wrong things on the ap exams. Your kid was missing a large section of them.

The exam is only 40% multiple choice. Writing skills and legibility can tank a student on 60% of the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it true that kids with barely legible handwriting (and no accommodations) can't get higher than a 3?

My kid got a 3 and almost every practice scored a 5 on the multiple choice. DC has
bad handwriting and horrible spelling. We think it was an issue. Top student in class at well-regarded school. How can you get accommodations to type?

I’ve taught APWH for years and have had students with AWFUL (like had to be read at all to mostly decipher) handwriting get 4s and 5s.