Are Grades and Test Scores all that Matter at Big State Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT waitlisted some high stats kids this year so they could better predict enrollment.

They have also been clear that they want to increase their 1st Gen population. Kids from UMC families who were using it as a safety did not get in (some of the time).

Link to this statement? Every kid I know going to VT is high stats.

There were a lot admitted from outside NOVA with less than 3.5. This is not considered high stats.

[Anonymous]

1) It's going to vary based on the state school. You cannot generalize across all states.

2) It matters whether your kid is in state or out of state. Many states have quotas/percentages for OOS and stats will need to be higher.

3) It's going to matter what program your kid is applying to, which renders Naviance next to useless. Example -- computer science, biology, or business at UMD -- extremely competitive, and not comparable to say an English major.

4) If your kid is applying to a school, they should take every aspect of the application seriously no matter the size, public/private, big/small, instate/out. Schools don't require supplemental essays for no reason. Do it right or don't do it at all. Don't give the overworked admissions officers an easy reason to give your kid the boot for failure to follow directions.

5) If you want your kid to apply to a big state school that really only cares about grades and (possibly) test scores, consider Canadian universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But lower stats kids did get in. That’s why we know stats are not relevant to VT.

Obviously, those "lower stats" kids had things your kid did not. You have no idea what they brought to the table - what kinds of EC, leadership, commitments outside of school, interests, etc. No idea whatsoever. You also have no idea the rigor of their classes, etc. In short, you simply don't know, though you obviously think you have all the answers.

One thing is for certain - VT is not closely examining or carefully scrutinizing each of its 45,000 applications.

They DO read the essays, which they deem "very important."

Clearly you’re not in the loop. VT does NOT read the essay and they proudly admit this. They read their four supplemental questions though.

By "essays" I meant the supplemental questions. Those are the "essays" they consider "very important". Obviously, since they clearly say they don't look at the Common App essay. They also don't look at recommendations so if you want VT to know anything about you, give a lot of attention to their questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But lower stats kids did get in. That’s why we know stats are not relevant to VT.

Obviously, those "lower stats" kids had things your kid did not. You have no idea what they brought to the table - what kinds of EC, leadership, commitments outside of school, interests, etc. No idea whatsoever. You also have no idea the rigor of their classes, etc. In short, you simply don't know, though you obviously think you have all the answers.

One thing is for certain - VT is not closely examining or carefully scrutinizing each of its 45,000 applications.

They DO read the essays, which they deem "very important."

I'm sure the essays are read, but there's not enough time and admissions staff to give all of them THAT close a look. Some applications are weeded out early to focus on others.

Unless you are an adcom, you have no way of saying what happens. If it was so easy, why do we wait weeks and weeks to hear back from some of these schools?

Many schools hire temporary staff to read through them and rank order them. My neighbor did this for UC Berkeley.

No school is rank ordering 45,000 applications (e.g. that kid'e application is ranked 36, 264).

Are you saying I'm a liar? Honest to God, my neighbor did this. Unless you are saying they have a cut off and only read the ones above that, which he did not tell me, but I could imagine. I believe they read their stack and presented the ones they felt were meritorious. I did not literally mean they rank 45,000 kids. My wording was imprecise.

NP: I am friends with an admissions officer that an Ivy and T20 and I have served on an enrollment management/admissions committee as a faculty member at a large public university. From my experience and what I have learned from my friends, some applications are not read by admissions officers/temporary staff. The enrollment management software does the first cull. Some of the reasons include incomplete applications (e.g., recommendation letters missing) and the applicant doesn't meet the minimum academic standards. For example, my university, pre-Covid, eliminated applications that didn't meet the College and Career Readiness Benchmark SAT scores. We also have a minimum HS unweighted GPA that is different for transfer students from 4-year and 2-year colleges.

Your sample doesn't show a rule or widespread practice. You'd think that a faculty member, possibly with a terminal degree, would understand that and not spew anecdotal information as if it's gospel.

NP Oh, for crying out loud. I’m so sick of people attacking people’s experiences. This is an anonymous internet chat forum, not a dissertation. Every time one of you pop up with this, it makes you sound desperate to deflect.

Another NP. But the PP is correct. There’s always someone who comes along with an anecdote that may or may not even be true, and makes proclamations as if they’re gospel. One person’s experience at one school doesn’t have anything to do with how it works at other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT does not focus on grades and test scores. I have no idea what they do care about though.

They most certainly do. Sorry your kid didn't get in.

It’s been published by VT that they care about URMs right now- and less on scores.

All of the kids who got in from our NoVA high school are white with very high stats. I’m sure they’re looking for URMs, but many high schools don’t have a lot of URMs in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT does not focus on grades and test scores. I have no idea what they do care about though.

Grades seemed the most important based on Naviance. It was one of the schools that had an easy to see line - almost everyone got in with a GPA over x and few got in below that number. The Test scores were not as easy to assess.

Maybe at your kid’s school. UVA had a clear line which we appreciated. VT did not for my kid’s school. And results for class of 2022 were even harder to predict. Many high stats kids did not get in. They are clearly chasing something other than grades and test scores.

But many did. They don't have room for ALL high stats kids, so they have to pick and choose. Why can't people realize this?
DP

Then what are they differentiating on?

Quality of classes taken (rigor) and answers to the supplemental questions, I imagine - among other things. Again, not every high stat kid is going to be accepted, and that goes for any school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But lower stats kids did get in. That’s why we know stats are not relevant to VT.

Obviously, those "lower stats" kids had things your kid did not. You have no idea what they brought to the table - what kinds of EC, leadership, commitments outside of school, interests, etc. No idea whatsoever. You also have no idea the rigor of their classes, etc. In short, you simply don't know, though you obviously think you have all the answers.

One thing is for certain - VT is not closely examining or carefully scrutinizing each of its 45,000 applications.

They DO read the essays, which they deem "very important."

Clearly you’re not in the loop. VT does NOT read the essay and they proudly admit this. They read their four supplemental questions though.

That’s why the PP said “essays.” No, they don’t look at the Common App essay *because they have their own*. What part of that do you not understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT waitlisted some high stats kids this year so they could better predict enrollment.

They have also been clear that they want to increase their 1st Gen population. Kids from UMC families who were using it as a safety did not get in (some of the time).

Link to this statement? Every kid I know going to VT is high stats.

There were a lot admitted from outside NOVA with less than 3.5. This is not considered high stats.

Link?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT does not focus on grades and test scores. I have no idea what they do care about though.

They most certainly do. Sorry your kid didn't get in.

It’s been published by VT that they care about URMs right now- and less on scores.

All of the kids who got in from our NoVA high school are white with very high stats. I’m sure they’re looking for URMs, but many high schools don’t have a lot of URMs in the first place.

PP again - should have said white or Asian from our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT does not focus on grades and test scores. I have no idea what they do care about though.

They most certainly do. Sorry your kid didn't get in.

NP. My kid got into Yale and was waitlisted at VT. So... who the hell knows what VT looks for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT does not focus on grades and test scores. I have no idea what they do care about though.

They most certainly do. Sorry your kid didn't get in.

NP. My kid got into Yale and was waitlisted at VT. So... who the hell knows what VT looks for.

Maybe VT was full in whatever major your kid was applying to. Maybe your kid didn't answer the *VT-specific* questions in a way that interested them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS has drawn up list of colleges to apply to that are mostly medium to large state schools (out of state, not T20) that get tens of thousands of applications. Does anything really matter on these applications besides GPA and test scores? Wondering how much essays and extracurricular accomplishments will make a difference.

Take a look at their Common Data Sets, which rank what each school finds important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT does not focus on grades and test scores. I have no idea what they do care about though.

They most certainly do. Sorry your kid didn't get in.

NP. My kid got into Yale and was waitlisted at VT. So... who the hell knows what VT looks for.

Maybe VT was full in whatever major your kid was applying to. Maybe your kid didn't answer the *VT-specific* questions in a way that interested them.

This. Amazing how some parents (and students) actually think they’re entitled to admission at certain schools. They are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:VT does not focus on grades and test scores. I have no idea what they do care about though.

+1
After hearing about some of my kid’s friends not getting in to Engineering, I agree completely

Maybe because they have thousands of highly qualified students applying so the competition is fierce?

Except they accept a large percentage of students. Competition really isn't that fierce there. They do seem to yield protect though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) It's going to vary based on the state school. You cannot generalize across all states.

2) It matters whether your kid is in state or out of state. Many states have quotas/percentages for OOS and stats will need to be higher.

3) It's going to matter what program your kid is applying to, which renders Naviance next to useless. Example -- computer science, biology, or business at UMD -- extremely competitive, and not comparable to say an English major.

4) If your kid is applying to a school, they should take every aspect of the application seriously no matter the size, public/private, big/small, instate/out. Schools don't require supplemental essays for no reason. Do it right or don't do it at all. Don't give the overworked admissions officers an easy reason to give your kid the boot for failure to follow directions.

5) If you want your kid to apply to a big state school that really only cares about grades and (possibly) test scores, consider Canadian universities.

I see the bolded a lot, or variations, and it doesn't track with our experience in the class of 2022.

With a couple of notable exceptions -- engineering, performance music, divinity, education -- you're not applying for the major. You apply to the school. And the "school" is most often just Arts and Sciences. So you're not "applying to biology" ^^^^ VS. "applying to English." You're not 'admitted to biology' or 'admitted to math' versus 'admitted to psychology'. You're .... admitted to the university. In the large majority of cases. Whether that's for math, chemistry or gender studies.