Skip Ivies & focus on other T20 to improve chances and avoid heartache/stress

[Anonymous]

My son was interested in one particular T20 school. He applied to it and a handful of T50. He got into the T20. He was not interested in ivies despite his high stats. Not saying he was likely to get in, but most in is situation would be encouraged to apply. He didn't want the cut throat environment. He is doing awesome and is currently doing a highly coveted internship.

[Anonymous]

I get the focus on rankings. It's impossible to narrow schools down without them (IMO). The general "top 20" I dont really get - we focused a lot more on top 20 for my kids major, which is totally different. I say either go top 20 for your major or go 20-50 overall. You are wasting your time with the top 20 general which is all the ivys etc. It's 1-2% admission rate for perfect students and usually everyone has a hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

NP- I always love the posters her that use phrases like "If I were you," "forced my kid to suck it up" and "but I still made her." Amusing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ivies are subset of T20.

Cornell #17
Brown #14
Dartmouth #13
UPenn #8
etc.
(by USN&WR)

They are just part of T20
What do you mean??

I actually think the Ivies should be treated as a separate group from the rest of the top 10 schools.

Well, some of them aren’t even in the top 10 of the list being batted around here, so…

They are in fact better than the top 10 schools. US News follows a formula, and some of the Ivies don't fit the formula as well as some other schools that are ranked in the top. Still, many top students in the US apply and rank these Ivies higher than the other non-Ivy top 10 schools.

Better what?
Your mom told you that?

Yes, my mom told me that. She happens to be all knowing.

am I the only one who thinks of Mama from The Waterboy reading this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

NP- I always love the posters her that use phrases like "If I were you," "forced my kid to suck it up" and "but I still made her." Amusing.

What about my statement was so amusing? I don't find this current era of lackadaisical parenting to be amusing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

NP- I always love the posters her that use phrases like "If I were you," "forced my kid to suck it up" and "but I still made her." Amusing.

What about my statement was so amusing? I don't find this current era of lackadaisical parenting to be amusing at all.

Already said what was amusing. Now your comment of what you view as "lackadaisical" parenting furthers my amusement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

My kid knows the value of hardworking and strong work ethic. This was during Covid, facing a junior year completely online. So the issue of what's mentally healthy for our kid came into play---as I stated, kid had already experienced this terrible teacher and decided they would rather take AP STEM courses than AP Spanish with a bad teacher. Kid will be an engineering major---so kid selected more AP STEM courses in place of AP Spanish with a really really bad teacher. Kid dances 20+ hours per week (in fall and during competition season it's often 25+ hours a week), is in band/marching band (5-10 hours of practice/performing each week in fall), along with 4 AP STEM courses each year. She knows what hard work is and about not giving up So it wasn't a matter of "I don't want to do the work"---it was a matter of let's select a course that is more meaningful and yes, a course that might be a bit more enjoyable and useful for the future. Don't regret our choices at all. My kid just graduated with a 3.99 UW gpa and will be attending a T30 school and took 10 AP courses, 9 of them STEM based. I'd say she knows resilience and a strong work ethic.

My main point was way too many families force their kids to take certain courses just because it looks good, rather than picking their rigorous courses as ones that kid wants to take and makes sense. If you like Spanish then go for AP Spanish. If your focus is liberal arts, then definately take AP English and history (and the AP language as you will be required to complete/pass out of 2 years in college). But kids do NOT need to take 6 APs in a year or ones that they don't really enjoy to get into the right college. I'm happy my kids are moving towards being adults and can make choices themselves without me "forcing" them to take a certain course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

NP- I always love the posters her that use phrases like "If I were you," "forced my kid to suck it up" and "but I still made her." Amusing.

What about my statement was so amusing? I don't find this current era of lackadaisical parenting to be amusing at all.

A kid choosing to take AP Statistics over AP Spanish is lackadaisical? So glad my kid doesn't have you as a parent. I feel sorry for your kids. My kid was allowed to be a kid and still succeed in life. Getting into a T30 school with a 60% merit scholarship is not Failure in my opinion. So sorry for your offspring that it would be in your mind.


Personally I'd call it smart for the kid who is going into engineering to select this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

NP- I always love the posters her that use phrases like "If I were you," "forced my kid to suck it up" and "but I still made her." Amusing.

Ha. I'm the one always underselling my rising Junior son. I worry he's taking on too much all of the time. Counselor and I last year suggested not doing all Honors/AP in every subject. He insisted and flew right through with straight As and still plenty of time to play 2 HS sports, Club soccer and participated in 2 school clubs while having plenty of time to socialize with friends on weekends.

There is no way in hell I could have done that in high school. Next year he got them to waive a prereq for a science AP. I'm freaking out that it will be too much next year and keep asking him about possibly dropping one of the honors or APs--nope. He says he wants to do it.

Some kids will do fine, learn/memorize easy, multi-task very efficiently---just need to listen in class and absorb it like a sponge. Others will be up until 2am doing all of the work.

If mom is pushing the kid to maintain a schedule that keeps them up at 2am--that's an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if these threads are actually adults talking to one another or kids who just don't know any better or trolls seeing who they can get riled up. Because why would intelligent adults (or kids) believe the way to decide where to attend college is to use a ranking created by someone else whose only claim to authority is that they've been doing it for decades? There are hundreds of universities where a student with straight A's in all AP classes and a 1600 on her SAT can get an excellent education.

Because so many adults do actually care, for some strange reason, about the rankings. It's really unhealthy. Parents somehow feel their worth is based on "where their kid gets into college".

Majority of kids who think they have a chance at a T50 school will do well wherever they land---these are motivated kids who will succeed in life and where they go doesn't really matter. Much more important that they be happy where they are and they find the correct fit!

Yet we as a society have driven our HS kids to be miserable all in the name of getting into the best college. Kids no longer choose what to do/take in HS because it interested them, they do it to check boxes or because "it's what you do to go to a T20 school". I'm happy my own kid chose their own path in HS. It may have hurt them when applying to T20 schools (talking about not taking beyond Spanish 3 as AP Spanish was with a TERRIBLE teacher kid had previously, and opting instead for more AP STEM courses as a future engineer). But so what---if that's why my kid got rejected at T20 schools, my kid was happier and more engaged in HS by taking the advanced courses they wanted to take, not what they thought they Needed to take. My kid ended up where they belong and were thrilled with their choice the moment they first stepped onto campus. Yes, it was not their "top choice"---that was a T10 school. But it was a close 2nd and they will go far in life

-1

If I were you I would've forced my kid to suck it up and take AP Spanish. Not for the sake of college admissions, but for the sake of showing my kid that sometimes, life demands us to do things that we don't necessarily want. DD was in a similar situation as your son (but replace Physics for Spanish), but I still made her take AP Physics C anyways since I knew it was important for me to instill a strong work ethic in her -- even when (and I'd argue especially when) it's targeted towards tasks you don't want to do or that aren't completely in your wheelhouse.

NP- I always love the posters her that use phrases like "If I were you," "forced my kid to suck it up" and "but I still made her." Amusing.

Ha. I'm the one always underselling my rising Junior son. I worry he's taking on too much all of the time. Counselor and I last year suggested not doing all Honors/AP in every subject. He insisted and flew right through with straight As and still plenty of time to play 2 HS sports, Club soccer and participated in 2 school clubs while having plenty of time to socialize with friends on weekends.

There is no way in hell I could have done that in high school. Next year he got them to waive a prereq for a science AP. I'm freaking out that it will be too much next year and keep asking him about possibly dropping one of the honors or APs--nope. He says he wants to do it.

Some kids will do fine, learn/memorize easy, multi-task very efficiently---just need to listen in class and absorb it like a sponge. Others will be up until 2am doing all of the work.

If mom is pushing the kid to maintain a schedule that keeps them up at 2am--that's an issue.

The "if I were you" mom sounds like a "tiger mom". Not healthy for anyone, even if the kid can do the work. At some point the drive has to come from the kid, as you stated happens with your son.