Dealers charging thousands over MSRP - scammers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, who can recommend a dealership in the DMV or maybe farther west in Maryland that isn't charging over MSRP? I'm going to start looking at Hondas and Hyundais soon. I have a 10-year-old Honda now, and will keep it if I must, but would like something with more safety features.

Hold on as long as you can but don’t expect any big market changes until we’ll into 23. Honda has less than a 15 day supply or cars. Hyundai is less than 5. Although Honda new car sales are down 57% year over year, You may have slightly better luck with a Honda dealership which are generally better to work with than Hyundai. OTOH Hyundai has been outselling Honda in terms of number of vehicles. Dealer profits are at historic highs with profits in the neighborhood of $5000 on each car sold. This is triple the average from 2019.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, who can recommend a dealership in the DMV or maybe farther west in Maryland that isn't charging over MSRP? I'm going to start looking at Hondas and Hyundais soon. I have a 10-year-old Honda now, and will keep it if I must, but would like something with more safety features.

You may have to go down a series of rabbit holes relating to a particular model. For example the Telluride chats indicate that Freedom Kia in Morgantown is selling without markup but you may now be looking at a 5-8 month wait. You can also sift through information on a site like Leasehacker.com to figure out good dealers who will work with you. In todays market I would be inclined to hire a broker with established dealer contacts to do the legwork. There are coupons highly regarded on Leasehacker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

Your reading comprehension needs work. They are not “jacking up prices.” They are eliminating discounts and negotiations to which you are not entitled. Capitalism. Supply and demand. Look it up.

DP, not a car salesman, so don’t bother

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Were buyers “greedy” for trying to pay less than MSRP before the pandemic?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

This is a ridiculous comparison. The shortage of cars is not at all the same as the shortage of baby formula. What an entitled whiner you are. I am not a car dealer btw. I am someone who is aggressive about saving money when I buy a car. I would never whine about the prices. There is a shortage of cars, thus the prices have gone up. I'm not a communist like you.

You seem quite agitated.

They are telling the truth. Sorry it’s unpleasant to you (and OP), if you’re not OP).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, who can recommend a dealership in the DMV or maybe farther west in Maryland that isn't charging over MSRP? I'm going to start looking at Hondas and Hyundais soon. I have a 10-year-old Honda now, and will keep it if I must, but would like something with more safety features.

Not going to happen for Honda. Hyundai, maybe, because they’re generally less desirable (though more desirable than they were in the current market).

[Anonymous]

Avoid Ourisman VW in Rockville like the plague. They’ll quote you MSRP over the phone, even if you ask about markups, but when you get there there’s a markup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

I'm annoyed by the lack of inventory as well, because it means I have to continue driving my beat-up car, but comparing it to baby formula is WILD. Just absolutely WILD. Yes, we live in a capitalist society where supply and deman matter. Right now, there is a very low supply of vehicles. Historically low. This means there are not used cars being traded in, and it's distorting the market. Just wait it out for now.

What you don't think that OP in any better position than starving babies? This is about a CAR, man, a CAR!!!11!!!1! Where are your priorities?

Seriously, OP, you sound unhinged. My husband loves toying with car sales people because he can do math quickly in his head and has often come out ahead of the game. He's due a new car, but we're going to hold on to the one with 100K miles on it for a bit longer until the whole pandemic-related supply-and-demand issue subsides. If you're this personally offended by capitalism, I suggest you move or do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

Your reading comprehension needs work. They are not “jacking up prices.” They are eliminating discounts and negotiations to which you are not entitled. Capitalism. Supply and demand. Look it up.

DP, not a car salesman, so don’t bother

If a market adjustment of $3000 or more isn’t jacking up prices then please enlighten us as to what it is. It’s not f we limkbsting discounts or negotiations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

Your reading comprehension needs work. They are not “jacking up prices.” They are eliminating discounts and negotiations to which you are not entitled. Capitalism. Supply and demand. Look it up.

DP, not a car salesman, so don’t bother

If a market adjustment of $3000 or more isn’t jacking up prices then please enlighten us as to what it is. It’s not f we limkbsting discounts or negotiations.

^^ eliminating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never enjoyed new car shopping, but 2022 car shopping has been the worst ever. One dealership is adding $6k over MSRP and they don't even have the cars on the lot. It feels sleazy and predatory. I feel like I don't doing business with these sleazebags. Is there any alternative?

Sure, buy somewhere else or don't buy now.

+1

The "S" stands for "suggested." If you don't like the price, find a better one elsewhere or hold off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

This is a ridiculous comparison. The shortage of cars is not at all the same as the shortage of baby formula. What an entitled whiner you are. I am not a car dealer btw. I am someone who is aggressive about saving money when I buy a car. I would never whine about the prices. There is a shortage of cars, thus the prices have gone up. I'm not a communist like you.

You seem quite agitated.

They are telling the truth. Sorry it’s unpleasant to you (and OP), if you’re not OP).

So calling someone a communist is telling the truth? Is this satire?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The days of negotiating with dealers for $5,000 less than sticker price are over (at least for now). It's simply supply and demand. Dealer inventory is incredibly low and as long as there are people willing to pay $5,000 over MSRP for a vehicle, they will charge that amount. It's not sleazy - it's what the market is like right now. Are homeowners sleazy when they sell their homes for more than what they're appraised for? Are bars and restaurants sleazy because they charge $40 for a bottle of wine you can buy at the store for $20, or $8 dollar for a beer you can get for $3?

You used to be able to buy cars for less than MSRP primarily for two reasons - either the dealer received a rebate from the manufacturer that allowed the dealer to buy the vehicle from the manufacturer for a price less than MSRP that the dealer then flowed down to you, so you were also able to buy the vehicle for under MSRP, or the dealer was willing to "take a loss" on an individual vehicle that they sold to you at less than what the dealer paid the manufacturer because they received incentives from the manufacturer for exceeding certain sales targets (i.e. they would take a $1,000 loss on an individual car if that sale pushed them over the hurdle that got them $10,000 from the manufacturer). Neither of these things exist right now in this market - manufacturers don't need to provide incentives right now to move their inventory due to the supply/demand of the market.

In terms of them selling cars they don't yet have on their lot, I'm not sure I understand your complaint there. It's not like dealers are taking customer's money for cars and then not delivering the vehicles. Dealers have lists of vehicles that are in-transit and arriving at their dealership. Some will let customers reserve these cars by putting down a deposit so that they can come in and buy the car once it arrives on their lot. No one is getting scammed by paying for a car that never arrives. And if a customer was actually dumb enough to pay cash for a car that is not on the lot and that they've never seen, then shame on them.

You sound like a car salesman justifying your dishonest ethics. Do I think that the car dealers and oil companies jacking up the costs of cars and gas is just good business and the same as a restaurant marking up a bottle of wine? No. It's more like grocery stores marking up baby formula just because they can. It's just greed and taking advantage of people in a crisis. The won't forget the greed of the car dealers.

Your reading comprehension needs work. They are not “jacking up prices.” They are eliminating discounts and negotiations to which you are not entitled. Capitalism. Supply and demand. Look it up.

DP, not a car salesman, so don’t bother

If a market adjustment of $3000 or more isn’t jacking up prices then please enlighten us as to what it is. It’s not f we limkbsting discounts or negotiations.

MSRP is the manufacturer’s suggestion. In theory this includes a reasonable profit for the dealer. Some (most?) manufacturers, like VW, discourage additional dealer markups (ADMs). That dealers are charging what the market will bear is basic economics. What frosts me is when they tell you there’s no ADM, but when you drive out there they want another $5k (Ourisman VW Rockville, I’m looking at you).

[Anonymous]

Capitalism. Pure and simple. These are cars, not baby formula or life saving meds. So what if it’s greedy. That’s how our economy works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Avoid Ourisman VW in Rockville like the plague. They’ll quote you MSRP over the phone, even if you ask about markups, but when you get there there’s a markup.

This is what gets me - the bait and switch.
I took time to email and call a bunch of dealerships and many of them quoted me a price and then then once I got to the dealership they added ANOTHER markup. Even though I asked them for the OTD price before I went.

It's unethical and alienates customers.