Dropping the school mask mandate and rise in Covid cases - looking at local data

[Anonymous]

Actually, I really think we should mask for the flu, it's actually the lesson we learned from the pandemic. And anyone who is sick should mask when indoors in public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, I really think we should mask for the flu, it's actually the lesson we learned from the pandemic. And anyone who is sick should mask when indoors in public.

Enjoy your masked life. The rest of us will manage as we managed before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ger your kid vaccinated, and lets all just move on. Our family just had COVID as have most of the families we know in the last 4 months. Its a minor cold. Are kids going to start wearing masks full time forever to avoid a cold?

Minor cold or not, Covid still means your kid stays home and misses 5-10 school days and I miss work. Or if their teacher gets sick, the kid has a week with the PE teacher as a substitute.

But you’re right, it’s just a minor cold! Who cares???

or its not a minor cold for you. know two friends who got it this month having a really rough go. i don't mind if you aren;t worried about it, but please stop assuring people its a teensy little nuisance when there is NO WAY to predict if it will be for you or a family member as individuals.

+1 I feel like this is being missed. Many people only have minor cold symptoms, but some people are sick for days and even weeks. I've only had the flu once in my life, but it knocked me out for a good week. When we are dealing with an airborne virus that is much more transmissible than any of the other viruses we regularly encounter, those days and weeks of sickness add up and have a disruptive impact throughout society.

Right, but we don't maks for the flu. And masksing isn't cost-free.

We don't mask for the flu because the flu is seasonal, less transmissible, is not a novel virus, and has a lower mortality rate than COVID.

DP. The latter has never been true for kids, and frankly isn't even true anymore for vulnerable vaccinated and boosted people either. Dr. Monica Gandhi was just making this point - in addition to very effective vaccines, we also have very effective treatments for Covid, as well as preventatives such as Evusheld, while we have nothing for other common viruses such as rhinovirus, which can also kill a vulnerable person. Tamiflu is useless against the flu compared to Paxlovid against Covid.

PP here. To be clear, I wasn't advocating for mandated masks for young kids. However, watching COVID spread like wildfire from my kids' high school it's really disruptive to staff, teachers, and students, and many kids are sick enough to be out for more than a day or two. And I wasn't talking about forever, or even in the long term, but when there is such a light level of community spread, masks might allow more normalcy.

I also listened to Dr. Gandhi's interview. She's obviously well-informed and she made some very good points, but many of her colleagues do not agree with her dismissal of long COVID risks in vaccinated people.

I'm not mandating masks either. I do like open windows. improved ventilation and air purifiers, and regular community testing (both PCR on a schedule and rapid in the case of symptoms or before events) and reporting of results. Testing keeps everyone safe. If you have Covid and learn that through a test, you can obviously take measures to not infect others (break the chain). Oh, and you can take Paxlovid if you are above 12 and make that choice for yourself or child with your doctor. You have to take it early in the progression for it to be effective and stop the virus from replicating in your body, so testing may let you know within the window, before you have a full blown case. The "it's just a cold" people are very all or nothing (typical in our polarized society--such a knee jerk, default position on everything).

Regular asymptomatic PCR testing of kids causes a lot of unnecessarily missed school, so no, that is not a good strategy in the face of an endemic virus.

And giving your low risk teen Paxlovid is unnecessary and has costs to the community, because the drug is expensive. But I'm sure Pfizer executives are right with you on that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The data is wrong. It is wildly underreporting the number of cases at my kids' school, so I have no reason to trust the rest of it.

Agreed. My kid and at least 2 others tested positive in random asymptomatic testing a few weeks ago (and it may have been more), which ended up in 50% of two different classes being quarantined... and those cases were never reported to the school community. We did receive ~5 other positive notifications over the next week, but none with matching numbers or dates.

That said, all 3 kids I know about were totally asymptomatic, tested negative on PCRs within 24 hours of the initial test, never got a positive rapid and never spread it to anyone (including, in 2 of the case, unvaccinated family members)... so I am also somewhat skeptical of the testing. Are we sure they're matching student to test correctly? That there's no contamination? It just seems so strange that it happened in 3 cases in the same round of testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is wrong. It is wildly underreporting the number of cases at my kids' school, so I have no reason to trust the rest of it.

Agreed. My kid and at least 2 others tested positive in random asymptomatic testing a few weeks ago (and it may have been more), which ended up in 50% of two different classes being quarantined... and those cases were never reported to the school community. We did receive ~5 other positive notifications over the next week, but none with matching numbers or dates.

That said, all 3 kids I know about were totally asymptomatic, tested negative on PCRs within 24 hours of the initial test, never got a positive rapid and never spread it to anyone (including, in 2 of the case, unvaccinated family members)... so I am also somewhat skeptical of the testing. Are we sure they're matching student to test correctly? That there's no contamination? It just seems so strange that it happened in 3 cases in the same round of testing.

I doubt there are many mix-ups or lab errors. Your story is evidence of the needlessness and harmfulness of asymptomatic testing in schools. We all need to opt out of that racket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ger your kid vaccinated, and lets all just move on. Our family just had COVID as have most of the families we know in the last 4 months. Its a minor cold. Are kids going to start wearing masks full time forever to avoid a cold?

Minor cold or not, Covid still means your kid stays home and misses 5-10 school days and I miss work. Or if their teacher gets sick, the kid has a week with the PE teacher as a substitute.

But you’re right, it’s just a minor cold! Who cares???

I sure don’t. Thanks for asking.

You must not care about a lot of things PP. I mean you send your kids to DCPS. Should have worked harder in school to afford private like me! !

[Anonymous]

The CDC says 80 percent of DC kids and 65 percent of DC adults have already had coronorvirus, and that was before the current surge.

Seems pretty clear by now that everyone is going to get Covid regardless of what they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ger your kid vaccinated, and lets all just move on. Our family just had COVID as have most of the families we know in the last 4 months. Its a minor cold. Are kids going to start wearing masks full time forever to avoid a cold?

Minor cold or not, Covid still means your kid stays home and misses 5-10 school days and I miss work. Or if their teacher gets sick, the kid has a week with the PE teacher as a substitute.

But you’re right, it’s just a minor cold! Who cares???

I sure don’t. Thanks for asking.

You must not care about a lot of things PP. I mean you send your kids to DCPS. Should have worked harder in school to afford private like me! !

Eww. Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is wrong. It is wildly underreporting the number of cases at my kids' school, so I have no reason to trust the rest of it.

Agreed. My kid and at least 2 others tested positive in random asymptomatic testing a few weeks ago (and it may have been more), which ended up in 50% of two different classes being quarantined... and those cases were never reported to the school community. We did receive ~5 other positive notifications over the next week, but none with matching numbers or dates.

That said, all 3 kids I know about were totally asymptomatic, tested negative on PCRs within 24 hours of the initial test, never got a positive rapid and never spread it to anyone (including, in 2 of the case, unvaccinated family members)... so I am also somewhat skeptical of the testing. Are we sure they're matching student to test correctly? That there's no contamination? It just seems so strange that it happened in 3 cases in the same round of testing.

so 30 kids totally disrupted (during parcc!) because of kids who were not sick and probably not infectious. sounds great!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ger your kid vaccinated, and lets all just move on. Our family just had COVID as have most of the families we know in the last 4 months. Its a minor cold. Are kids going to start wearing masks full time forever to avoid a cold?

Minor cold or not, Covid still means your kid stays home and misses 5-10 school days and I miss work. Or if their teacher gets sick, the kid has a week with the PE teacher as a substitute.

But you’re right, it’s just a minor cold! Who cares???

I sure don’t. Thanks for asking.

You must not care about a lot of things PP. I mean you send your kids to DCPS. Should have worked harder in school to afford private like me! !

Eww. Gross.

Both comments are gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ger your kid vaccinated, and lets all just move on. Our family just had COVID as have most of the families we know in the last 4 months. Its a minor cold. Are kids going to start wearing masks full time forever to avoid a cold?

Minor cold or not, Covid still means your kid stays home and misses 5-10 school days and I miss work. Or if their teacher gets sick, the kid has a week with the PE teacher as a substitute.

But you’re right, it’s just a minor cold! Who cares???

or its not a minor cold for you. know two friends who got it this month having a really rough go. i don't mind if you aren;t worried about it, but please stop assuring people its a teensy little nuisance when there is NO WAY to predict if it will be for you or a family member as individuals.

+1 I feel like this is being missed. Many people only have minor cold symptoms, but some people are sick for days and even weeks. I've only had the flu once in my life, but it knocked me out for a good week. When we are dealing with an airborne virus that is much more transmissible than any of the other viruses we regularly encounter, those days and weeks of sickness add up and have a disruptive impact throughout society.

Right, but we don't maks for the flu. And masksing isn't cost-free.

We don't mask for the flu because the flu is seasonal, less transmissible, is not a novel virus, and has a lower mortality rate than COVID.

DP. The latter has never been true for kids, and frankly isn't even true anymore for vulnerable vaccinated and boosted people either. Dr. Monica Gandhi was just making this point - in addition to very effective vaccines, we also have very effective treatments for Covid, as well as preventatives such as Evusheld, while we have nothing for other common viruses such as rhinovirus, which can also kill a vulnerable person. Tamiflu is useless against the flu compared to Paxlovid against Covid.

PP here. To be clear, I wasn't advocating for mandated masks for young kids. However, watching COVID spread like wildfire from my kids' high school it's really disruptive to staff, teachers, and students, and many kids are sick enough to be out for more than a day or two. And I wasn't talking about forever, or even in the long term, but when there is such a light level of community spread, masks might allow more normalcy.

I also listened to Dr. Gandhi's interview. She's obviously well-informed and she made some very good points, but many of her colleagues do not agree with her dismissal of long COVID risks in vaccinated people.

I'm not mandating masks either. I do like open windows. improved ventilation and air purifiers, and regular community testing (both PCR on a schedule and rapid in the case of symptoms or before events) and reporting of results. Testing keeps everyone safe. If you have Covid and learn that through a test, you can obviously take measures to not infect others (break the chain). Oh, and you can take Paxlovid if you are above 12 and make that choice for yourself or child with your doctor. You have to take it early in the progression for it to be effective and stop the virus from replicating in your body, so testing may let you know within the window, before you have a full blown case. The "it's just a cold" people are very all or nothing (typical in our polarized society--such a knee jerk, default position on everything).

Regular asymptomatic PCR testing of kids causes a lot of unnecessarily missed school, so no, that is not a good strategy in the face of an endemic virus.

And giving your low risk teen Paxlovid is unnecessary and has costs to the community, because the drug is expensive. But I'm sure Pfizer executives are right with you on that one.

It's a fine strategy, because they don't then give it to ten other kids. And how you treat your teen is between you, your kid and your doctor. But it is available to 12+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The data is wrong. It is wildly underreporting the number of cases at my kids' school, so I have no reason to trust the rest of it.

Agreed. My kid and at least 2 others tested positive in random asymptomatic testing a few weeks ago (and it may have been more), which ended up in 50% of two different classes being quarantined... and those cases were never reported to the school community. We did receive ~5 other positive notifications over the next week, but none with matching numbers or dates.

That said, all 3 kids I know about were totally asymptomatic, tested negative on PCRs within 24 hours of the initial test, never got a positive rapid and never spread it to anyone (including, in 2 of the case, unvaccinated family members)... so I am also somewhat skeptical of the testing. Are we sure they're matching student to test correctly? That there's no contamination? It just seems so strange that it happened in 3 cases in the same round of testing.

so 30 kids totally disrupted (during parcc!) because of kids who were not sick and probably not infectious. sounds great!

No, it's terrible. I am saying both that I know the DCPS data being reported at my kids' school is wrong and that I'm not even convinced that the underlying testing is accurate. As a result, I am totally skeptical of all of the numbers being reported and of the value of asymptomatic testing at all in a non-vulnerable setting. (I can see the case for batch population random testing on nursing home populations to make sure you catch surges where they could do real damage.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ger your kid vaccinated, and lets all just move on. Our family just had COVID as have most of the families we know in the last 4 months. Its a minor cold. Are kids going to start wearing masks full time forever to avoid a cold?

Minor cold or not, Covid still means your kid stays home and misses 5-10 school days and I miss work. Or if their teacher gets sick, the kid has a week with the PE teacher as a substitute.

But you’re right, it’s just a minor cold! Who cares???

or its not a minor cold for you. know two friends who got it this month having a really rough go. i don't mind if you aren;t worried about it, but please stop assuring people its a teensy little nuisance when there is NO WAY to predict if it will be for you or a family member as individuals.

+1 I feel like this is being missed. Many people only have minor cold symptoms, but some people are sick for days and even weeks. I've only had the flu once in my life, but it knocked me out for a good week. When we are dealing with an airborne virus that is much more transmissible than any of the other viruses we regularly encounter, those days and weeks of sickness add up and have a disruptive impact throughout society.

Right, but we don't maks for the flu. And masksing isn't cost-free.

We don't mask for the flu because the flu is seasonal, less transmissible, is not a novel virus, and has a lower mortality rate than COVID.

DP. The latter has never been true for kids, and frankly isn't even true anymore for vulnerable vaccinated and boosted people either. Dr. Monica Gandhi was just making this point - in addition to very effective vaccines, we also have very effective treatments for Covid, as well as preventatives such as Evusheld, while we have nothing for other common viruses such as rhinovirus, which can also kill a vulnerable person. Tamiflu is useless against the flu compared to Paxlovid against Covid.

PP here. To be clear, I wasn't advocating for mandated masks for young kids. However, watching COVID spread like wildfire from my kids' high school it's really disruptive to staff, teachers, and students, and many kids are sick enough to be out for more than a day or two. And I wasn't talking about forever, or even in the long term, but when there is such a light level of community spread, masks might allow more normalcy.

I also listened to Dr. Gandhi's interview. She's obviously well-informed and she made some very good points, but many of her colleagues do not agree with her dismissal of long COVID risks in vaccinated people.

I'm not mandating masks either. I do like open windows. improved ventilation and air purifiers, and regular community testing (both PCR on a schedule and rapid in the case of symptoms or before events) and reporting of results. Testing keeps everyone safe. If you have Covid and learn that through a test, you can obviously take measures to not infect others (break the chain). Oh, and you can take Paxlovid if you are above 12 and make that choice for yourself or child with your doctor. You have to take it early in the progression for it to be effective and stop the virus from replicating in your body, so testing may let you know within the window, before you have a full blown case. The "it's just a cold" people are very all or nothing (typical in our polarized society--such a knee jerk, default position on everything).

Regular asymptomatic PCR testing of kids causes a lot of unnecessarily missed school, so no, that is not a good strategy in the face of an endemic virus.

And giving your low risk teen Paxlovid is unnecessary and has costs to the community, because the drug is expensive. But I'm sure Pfizer executives are right with you on that one.

It's a fine strategy, because they don't then give it to ten other kids. And how you treat your teen is between you, your kid and your doctor. But it is available to 12+.

Sounds like you don't understand the problems with PCR testing in this context. PCR tests identify lots of "cases" that are not actually contagious. There is a cost to that, and it's missed school. Given that Covid is such a low-risk virus for kids, the harm of those missed days of school for non-contagious kids outweighs the benefits of potentially prevented spread. There is also a financial cost to this strategy, and the money would be better spent on other things (such as tutoring to make up for the massive learning loss the school closures caused).

This argument was already made by some experts last spring, and it's even more valid now that kids can be vaccinated and most have already had Covid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/04/19/schools-covid-testing-cost/

Clearly though, you don't care about costs to society, financial or otherwise, if you think healthy 12-year-olds should receive Paxlovid while it is still expensive and scarce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mask mandates don't work.

Masks (good, well-fitting ones) do work.

+1

Thank you. It's really very simple.

OP here. Yes, this was my point, and I said it in my post. We know that a well-fitted N95 works. But people are right, it is too soon to tell. I just wish someone would actually study this data, since we have the fortuitous (form a research standpoint, not for the charter kids) situation of having schools of relatively similar demographics within the same community following different policies.

I think the point is more than an N95 mask works. The point is that what you give up by wearing one may or may not be worth what you give up in exchange. That's the disucssion that has to happen in schools, particluarly when the risk to kids from covid is so low.

Here's a recent study from Italy on the cost of masking.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.10.22274813v1.full.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ger your kid vaccinated, and lets all just move on. Our family just had COVID as have most of the families we know in the last 4 months. Its a minor cold. Are kids going to start wearing masks full time forever to avoid a cold?

Minor cold or not, Covid still means your kid stays home and misses 5-10 school days and I miss work. Or if their teacher gets sick, the kid has a week with the PE teacher as a substitute.

But you’re right, it’s just a minor cold! Who cares???

or its not a minor cold for you. know two friends who got it this month having a really rough go. i don't mind if you aren;t worried about it, but please stop assuring people its a teensy little nuisance when there is NO WAY to predict if it will be for you or a family member as individuals.

+1 I feel like this is being missed. Many people only have minor cold symptoms, but some people are sick for days and even weeks. I've only had the flu once in my life, but it knocked me out for a good week. When we are dealing with an airborne virus that is much more transmissible than any of the other viruses we regularly encounter, those days and weeks of sickness add up and have a disruptive impact throughout society.

Right, but we don't maks for the flu. And masksing isn't cost-free.

We don't mask for the flu because the flu is seasonal, less transmissible, is not a novel virus, and has a lower mortality rate than COVID.

DP. The latter has never been true for kids, and frankly isn't even true anymore for vulnerable vaccinated and boosted people either. Dr. Monica Gandhi was just making this point - in addition to very effective vaccines, we also have very effective treatments for Covid, as well as preventatives such as Evusheld, while we have nothing for other common viruses such as rhinovirus, which can also kill a vulnerable person. Tamiflu is useless against the flu compared to Paxlovid against Covid.

I cannot believe anyone listens to Monica Gandhi. She has been wrong so many times. But never in doubt. It is gross.