Restructuring education / school is killing our kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree, OP, but what do you see as a positive change that schools can/should make? Propose your solution.

Return to a classical education where kids are taught hard science, math, world history, American government, languages, literature etc rather than a constant stream of woke curriculum focused on how horrible they are and how hopeless the world is. They are drowning in a cult of nilihism which would depress anyone

Did something change in the last 20 years? Because that’s exactly what I was taught in public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree, OP, but what do you see as a positive change that schools can/should make? Propose your solution.

Return to a classical education where kids are taught hard science, math, world history, American government, languages, literature etc rather than a constant stream of woke curriculum focused on how horrible they are and how hopeless the world is. They are drowning in a cult of nilihism which would depress anyone

Did something change in the last 20 years? Because that’s exactly what I was taught in public school.

Exactly. That's what we learned in school. Why can't our kids learn that too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you. The current form of schooling is based on the colonial era where they had small schoolhouses with a few teachers teaching a small community of children. Obviously we've scaled that up to large buildings with many teachers, but the number of students has far exceeded the ratio of teachers. I don't know where to even begin with a modern solution, but we are forcing an outdated method into 2022 where the state of affairs has changed immensely. We are now in a locally globalized population with very wide discrepancies in SES and abilities.

The real answer is to have many more teachers in more rooms to have class sizes back in the 15 max range, but funding and space is the limiting factor.

Just so you know there is no evidence smaller classes lead to better outdoors. This is a teacher union line for more funding…in Taiwan they have classes with 50 students and consistently rank high in PISA test.

Sounds like the outcomes to which you refer are standardized test scores. Although they are one way to measure academic achievement, they do not measure well-being and many other indicators of stability and preparedness for life. As I teacher I can tell you that a larger classroom of cooperative students (as in, they have stable home lives and healthy-enough brains to function well in a classroom) can learn as much as a smaller group. Problem is, the larger the group the more likely you are to have up to several students who do not have the skills or brain health to cooperate and function well. Students who disrupt or need a lot more of the teachers energy/attention make it difficult to progress. With an explosion in mental health needs and with some communities where education isn’t highly valued (with respect for teachers and the rights of others modeled and reinforced by parents) there are far too many students who are not able to function well. An effective teacher can overcome some of these issues by providing a LOT of structure, positive reinforcement, and care for each individual. But we don’t seem to value teachers as much in this country as is more typical inAsian countries. That makes a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. School has worked fine since modern education was formulated. School systems seem to work fine abroad as well.

Something is going on with American schools, and American kids. My observations—

No rules
Low behavior expectations
No sense of order
Yet overly punitive at times
Kids of varying skills & abilities thrown into one class together
Some kids enter school poorly prepared
Some kids come from unstable and high stress homes.

Ding ding ding! The above sums it up. - same teacher as last post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with you. The current form of schooling is based on the colonial era where they had small schoolhouses with a few teachers teaching a small community of children. Obviously we've scaled that up to large buildings with many teachers, but the number of students has far exceeded the ratio of teachers. I don't know where to even begin with a modern solution, but we are forcing an outdated method into 2022 where the state of affairs has changed immensely. We are now in a locally globalized population with very wide discrepancies in SES and abilities.

The real answer is to have many more teachers in more rooms to have class sizes back in the 15 max range, but funding and space is the limiting factor.

Just so you know there is no evidence smaller classes lead to better outdoors. This is a teacher union line for more funding…in Taiwan they have classes with 50 students and consistently rank high in PISA test.

Sounds like the outcomes to which you refer are standardized test scores. Although they are one way to measure academic achievement, they do not measure well-being and many other indicators of stability and preparedness for life. As I teacher I can tell you that a larger classroom of cooperative students (as in, they have stable home lives and healthy-enough brains to function well in a classroom) can learn as much as a smaller group. Problem is, the larger the group the more likely you are to have up to several students who do not have the skills or brain health to cooperate and function well. Students who disrupt or need a lot more of the teachers energy/attention make it difficult to progress. With an explosion in mental health needs and with some communities where education isn’t highly valued (with respect for teachers and the rights of others modeled and reinforced by parents) there are far too many students who are not able to function well. An effective teacher can overcome some of these issues by providing a LOT of structure, positive reinforcement, and care for each individual. But we don’t seem to value teachers as much in this country as is more typical inAsian countries. That makes a huge difference.

+1 on respect for teachers. In my Asian (Indian) family it would be unacceptable to ignore or demean your teacher unless they are saying something harmful. If you don’t like what they are saying/doing then you come home and tell your parents and we figure out next steps. But you *do not* disrespect them in front of your classmates except in the most extreme of situations.

[Anonymous]

^ And we’ve never had an extreme situation come up for either kid. It’s theoretical at this point. Btw, my kids are allowed to freely argue with me (to an extent).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to school in Former Soviet union with a class size of 38 and one single teacher. No behavior issues whatsoever, but we did have a recess after 40 min of each class, 10 min for running around and playing physical games. I really believe that physical activity is the key for attention span for everyone, not just kids.

I also went to school in FSU. I think the main reason we did not have any significant behavior issues is that the system was ruthless about any behavioral deviations. One thrown chair would get you on notice, a second incidence meant a "special" school or home schooling, no ifs or bus about it. Not every kid could successfully attend a school with 37 other kids, and that was very explicit.

This. I think it every time people tout the system they grew up with. They have forgotten people like my cousins (bright but obvious LDs and ADHD) and what giving kids zero support and zero wiggle room looks like. Sink or swim works for the majority -- it worked great for me. But it's ruthlessly horrible for some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree, OP, but what do you see as a positive change that schools can/should make? Propose your solution.

Return to a classical education where kids are taught hard science, math, world history, American government, languages, literature etc rather than a constant stream of woke curriculum focused on how horrible they are and how hopeless the world is. They are drowning in a cult of nilihism which would depress anyone

This is dumb, sorry. I am a huge proponent of teaching classical literature and think everyone should take Latin but swapping one book for another or one language for another is not the difference maker. I read every book my kids are assigned and, besides the fact that I have loved every single choice, I can see how they are excellent teaching tools.

The shock to me when I compare my children's experience at FCPS high school is how little they read. It has always been a challenge to have a quality education in a big public school classroom but there is also a quantity problem. The requirements are so minimal. I am so shocked at how low the expectations are.

And it started in elementary when zero grammar was taught. Ok, maybe noun, verb, adjective and nothing else. Writing is taught by assigning different kinds of writing with a rubric. There is no systematic laying out of the writing process. The only thing that was well-taught in elementary school was Math.

And to the early person blaming progressive education...? You must be talking about a couple of private schools. Not a relevant AT ALL to this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree, OP, but what do you see as a positive change that schools can/should make? Propose your solution.

Return to a classical education where kids are taught hard science, math, world history, American government, languages, literature etc rather than a constant stream of woke curriculum focused on how horrible they are and how hopeless the world is. They are drowning in a cult of nilihism which would depress anyone

+1000. Where I live there is also too much emphasis on project-based learning at the expense of the above skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Derepression, anxiety, suicidal ideation are at critical levels among youth in the US. Our education system is in part to blame and in part the root of the problem for many kids today. I work with youth and am hear everyday how kids feel hopeless, pressures, ostracized, tired, exhausted, overwhelmed, unhappy, unsatisfied, unmotivated, BORED, incapable, less than, disrespected, judged, under appreciated, unseen, unheard, misunderstood, and desperate in the school environment.

Why are we sending our kids into this broken system day after day after day after day knowing the impact it is having on their mental health? Why aren’t we changing education at its core rather than adding pseudo counseling supports at schools and mental health trainings?

"hopeless, pressures, ostracized, tired, exhausted, overwhelmed, unhappy, unsatisfied, unmotivated, BORED, incapable, less than, disrespected, judged, under appreciated, unseen, unheard, misunderstood, and desperate"? That sounds like normal life for most people who want more. Just relax. Be happy with what you have, school or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Derepression, anxiety, suicidal ideation are at critical levels among youth in the US. Our education system is in part to blame and in part the root of the problem for many kids today. I work with youth and am hear everyday how kids feel hopeless, pressures, ostracized, tired, exhausted, overwhelmed, unhappy, unsatisfied, unmotivated, BORED, incapable, less than, disrespected, judged, under appreciated, unseen, unheard, misunderstood, and desperate in the school environment.

Why are we sending our kids into this broken system day after day after day after day knowing the impact it is having on their mental health? Why aren’t we changing education at its core rather than adding pseudo counseling supports at schools and mental health trainings?

The root cause of the problems is parents. Parents are the ones who want ultra competitive schools. When my kids were young, people would stay up all night to get a spot in the right pre-school. At my kid's elementary, the parents drove the principal and teachers nuts about wanting more advanced classes. Parents have ruined sports. If we step back and look at things, parents have screwed this world up terribly.

+1 to this. The way current parents are speaking to teachers and coaches is appalling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Derepression, anxiety, suicidal ideation are at critical levels among youth in the US. Our education system is in part to blame and in part the root of the problem for many kids today. I work with youth and am hear everyday how kids feel hopeless, pressures, ostracized, tired, exhausted, overwhelmed, unhappy, unsatisfied, unmotivated, BORED, incapable, less than, disrespected, judged, under appreciated, unseen, unheard, misunderstood, and desperate in the school environment.

Why are we sending our kids into this broken system day after day after day after day knowing the impact it is having on their mental health? Why aren’t we changing education at its core rather than adding pseudo counseling supports at schools and mental health trainings?

"hopeless, pressures, ostracized, tired, exhausted, overwhelmed, unhappy, unsatisfied, unmotivated, BORED, incapable, less than, disrespected, judged, under appreciated, unseen, unheard, misunderstood, and desperate"? That sounds like normal life for most people who want more. Just relax. Be happy with what you have, school or not.

This is equivalent to saying “suck it up.”

And the reality is that we’re at a point where your chances at a basic air-conditioned, 9-5 desk job with health insurance benefits can plummet at the drop of a hat. And anyone who won’t admit those jobs are more universally desirable than other jobs is fooling themselves.