How much does geographic diversity help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back in the 80’s I was convinced I got into my Ivy school because of where I was applying from. And later heard from someone in the admissions office that that region was indeed a target area because there were so few applicants from there.

I’m also a rural affirmative action to an Ivy! It was brutal. But my parents weren’t doctors or anything either, I’m sure OP relatives will do swimmingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can play this game too, OP. Your kids from DC suburbs might be more desirable to a college or university where they would represent the geographic diversity. If cost is a factor, look at schools that offer a lot of merit money.

Nope no one cares for big city UMC kids. Dime a dozen.

[Anonymous]

I was an Alaska kid and I do feel like it helped at the margins. Like it won’t get you into Harvard if you’re not already a strong candidate, but it might push you over the finish.

But: it’ll help more at non-top of the USNWR schools — they have plenty of apps from all states. A college that has students from 45 states? Yeah, it will make a slight difference. Being ND or WY or HI might give your app a lift.

[Anonymous]

When will people understand that elite universities are not meritocracies? If everyone understood and accepted this, we’d all be in a much better place.

[Anonymous]

If you live in rural Idaho but your kid goes to a fancy New England prep school, is your kid still considered to be from an underrepresented area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you live in rural Idaho but your kid goes to a fancy New England prep school, is your kid still considered to be from an underrepresented area?

No! I know this first hand. They are evaluated against their peers from that school assuming it’s a place multiple people apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember hearing Harvard admissions people saying the single biggest thing you can do to help your kid get into Harvard is to move to Alabama. I'm sure that is true. The court case about Harvard admissions that isn't going to the supreme court has revealed how much geographic diversity helps (interestingly it helps more or less depending on race - Asian applicants get fewer geographic diversity points because Harvard says they aren't "really" from there - but that is another topic).

Geographic diversity helps a lot but it isn't a slam dunk. My friend does alumni interviewing in a rural state and she is surprised about the kids she interviews who seem impressive and don't get in.

As an Asian person born and raised in an underrepresented state (and raising my kids in a different underrepresented state), I know this is true, and it makes me angry, and I hope this lawsuit finally does something about it. Of course, my multiracial kids won't be checking the Asian box, but-- how many generations do we have to live here to be considered Real Americans?

Asian here. To the PPP, what in the H?? Where was this and why is this the first I’ve heard of this? This is just as bad as the points docking personality traits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you live in rural Idaho but your kid goes to a fancy New England prep school, is your kid still considered to be from an underrepresented area?

No! I know this first hand. They are evaluated against their peers from that school assuming it’s a place multiple people apply.

+1

This happened to me. My Asian immigrant parents were very naive about the college admissions system, and didn't know that's how it works (also, pre-internet, it was really hard for anyone to find this sort of information). They thought the New England prep school would help me get into an elite college. It actually worked against me. I would've been better off being the valedictorian at Easy Rural High School in Big Square State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember hearing Harvard admissions people saying the single biggest thing you can do to help your kid get into Harvard is to move to Alabama. I'm sure that is true. The court case about Harvard admissions that isn't going to the supreme court has revealed how much geographic diversity helps (interestingly it helps more or less depending on race - Asian applicants get fewer geographic diversity points because Harvard says they aren't "really" from there - but that is another topic).

Geographic diversity helps a lot but it isn't a slam dunk. My friend does alumni interviewing in a rural state and she is surprised about the kids she interviews who seem impressive and don't get in.

As an Asian person born and raised in an underrepresented state (and raising my kids in a different underrepresented state), I know this is true, and it makes me angry, and I hope this lawsuit finally does something about it. Of course, my multiracial kids won't be checking the Asian box, but-- how many generations do we have to live here to be considered Real Americans?

Asian here. To the PPP, what in the H?? Where was this and why is this the first I’ve heard of this? This is just as bad as the points docking personality traits.

Asian PP born and raised in "Sparse Country", as Harvard calls it, and raising my kids there. This is from William Fitzsimmons' testimony at trial, as summarized in this New Yorker article:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/at-trial-harvards-asian-problem-and-a-preference-for-white-students-from-sparse-country

"When asked whether Harvard 'put a thumb on the scale for white students' from Sparse Country, Fitzsimmons contrasted students who 'have only lived in the Sparse Country state for a year or two' with those who 'have lived there for their entire lives under very different settings.' Perhaps he meant that whites are more likely to be 'farm boys' or 'great ambassadors,' like his South Dakotan roommate. Or perhaps he meant that Asians are more likely than whites to apply to Harvard, less likely to be accepted, and more likely to enroll if accepted, so Harvard saves itself postage costs by reducing its recruiting of Asians. But the exchange highlighted a key question of the trial: whether the Harvard admissions process treats white racial identity as an asset, relative to Asian identity (or treats Asian identity as a drawback, relative to white identity). By pointing to the higher numerical cutoff for Asians as a group at the recruitment stage, before any holistic review of individual applicants could have occurred, the plaintiff apparently was suggesting that race is not used as one factor among many but, rather, as the determinative factor, in Harvard’s alleged effort to shape its class to be more white and less Asian."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People keep referring to “rural” Utah or wherever, but they are not understanding that once you live in an in-demand state, there is no requirement that you live in the middle of nowhere. I know people in Park City UT, Whitefish MT, Portland ME, etc. These are all really nice smaller cities with great restaurants, shopping, arts and good schools. These families are not suffering economically or artistically and yes, their kids will get a place at top schools before ours do.

Whitefish Montana? Have you spent time there? I'd call it a town. The restaurants are fine. You can get a fresh cooked meal for $12 or less.
Loula's is pretty good for breakfast or pie. Shopping? In my world the shopping went down hill when the Ace Hardware moved out of the center of the town. You can shop at chain stores in Kalispell. A lot of billionaires support the arts so they are in line with what you would get in an upper class small town. The schools are good in a white person kind of way with a sprinkling of native americans.

The biggest suffering in Whitefish is that too many Californians are moving into the town and local Montanans are finding it tough to afford to live there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m just curious, my kids and their cousins are very similar in terms of stats - AP/honors classes, athletes but not recruited, 1400-1500 range on SAT, full pay, but their cousins are from middle of nowhere rural America. Her kids are planning to apply to places like Georgetown, Pomona, UVA… my kids are being told UMD CP is a reach and to apply places like Denison and JMU. I need a reality check.

Colleges love to boast having students from 50 states or 100 countries and such but geographical diversity certainly has real value as well, gives you new perspectives, makes you more tolerant and helps you grow in ways you wouldn’t have if you are attending local college with all the kids from your old high school.

[Anonymous]

It’s a drawback to come from large cities, big public high schools, high achieving minority groups etc. because there is more competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no question that being from an “underrepresented” state can get you in.

Example 1:
Student from our NYC school with Bs moved to Utah before junior yr. Student with straight As, all-around brilliant kid, stayed at our school. Both legacies to Ivy. Utah kid got in, NYC didn’t.

Example 2:
Friends who are both HYP grads recently moved to Maine for this purpose - to best position their kids for college acceptances.

how can they afford that?

What do you mean? The Utah family is extremely wealthy - they have been living in their Park City ski chalet and they still have their NYC penthouse.

The Maine family lives near Portland, which is a really nice small city. They also bought a ski house further north.

No financial issues for either.

We could not afford to relocate w/o employment and our skill sets probably would not match up with employment opportunities save a few large metro areas. Can’t imagine we are the only ones on this thread in that situation.

[Anonymous]

So where would a DMV student find that an emphasis on geographic diversity works in their favor, or at least not against them? Hawaii? Alaska? Timbuktu?

[Anonymous]

To be clear, these schools only need to take one kid every 4 years from these places.