Harvard going test optional thru 2026 at least

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Harvard is Harvard. The school will choose from the best of the best - SAT or not.

Perception becomes a feedback loop that changes reality. If middle America perceives that Harvard isn’t academically based anymore, the smartest midwestern and southern kids stop applying. The coastal elites don’t have a monopoly on intelligence and work ethic.

Test optional seems like a bad plan. How can I trust a Harvard degree anymore? What signal does it show besides alignment with current coastal elite values?

Eh, the offspring of Midwesterners I know are still applying....

I now live outside of DC, and the Ivy League is perceived very differently here. The perception is that most of these schools have jumped the shark.

As if anyone cares what fly over states think. Oh no they think Harvard jumped the shark! What will Harvard ever do!!!!

Go back to being a good regional college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of your kids are getting in, so try not to care so much.

Lol. Very true. Of course what Harvard does has outsized influence on what other schools do going forward. I really think there an opportunity for a top college to break ranks and just choose the best qualified kids they can get, with no thought to legacy, sports, diversity etc. That college/university would be a powerhouse in a decade.

You mean, like Caltech?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lawsuit against them for discriminating against Asian American students uses SAT scores as evidence. This is probably part of the decision. They can get the class demographics they want without the discrimination proof.

If this is true than this is horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:none of your kids are getting in, so try not to care so much.

Lol. Very true. Of course what Harvard does has outsized influence on what other schools do going forward. I really think there an opportunity for a top college to break ranks and just choose the best qualified kids they can get, with no thought to legacy, sports, diversity etc. That college/university would be a powerhouse in a decade.

You mean, like Caltech?

A great student athlete trumps students without athletics or arts talent. Athletes/artists etc can handle deadlines/pressure all the while making grades. Stop hating on athletes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The kids I know from the DMV who were admitted to Harvard (3) all took took the SAT and all had scores >1550. These rules don't apply to this area.

I think this is true but it also makes the test weigh less, imo, compared to other factors. Or, another way of looking, makes it more competitive because test optional applicants who might not have gotten in with scores will now get a slot. I personally think the kids most hurt are the 1400-1490/33-34 kids as those scores are better than almost everyone who takes the test but now at the bottom 25% of almost all top 50 universities. I think those scores used to be a bump and now they could potentially hurt you.

As is always stated, tests are no longer necessary or sufficient.

It does not make the test weigh less. Don't kid yourself.

Surely it does. Test scores used to be sufficient and predictive. Not any more.

Test scores were never sufficient-high school grades have always been the number one predictor of success in college. Tests are still able to help with that prediction, though, and their being unrequired will not mean they won't be considered or that assumptions won't be made about those who don't submit them.

You're talking out your ass. You have no idea how Harvard admissions makes its decisions.

[Anonymous]

Boer is fired up LOL (warning, language) https://freddiedeboer.substack.com (click "let me read it first" and then see Harvard article - bad word in article title does not allow direct link to be posted)

[Anonymous]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/harvard-admissions-data-shows-that-america-loves-affirmative-actionfor-whites?fbclid=IwAR0Ay8Sf2Qt8KOCN-seCOTZocdgiVZHr56AVzSRiR-fSnzBBYXDGZkhO5aw

Harvard Admissions Data Shows That America Loves Affirmative Action—for Whites.

"According to their findings, more than 43 percent of the white students admitted were ALDC (A= Athletes, L = Legacies, D = Deans list, C = Children of Faculty). But the share for African Americans, Asian Americans, and Latinos was less than 16 percent. Furthermore, the research shows, roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if not for their ALDC status. Finally, eliminating preferences for athletes and legacies would make the pool of admitted students much less white."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.thedailybeast.com/harvard-admissions-data-shows-that-america-loves-affirmative-actionfor-whites?fbclid=IwAR0Ay8Sf2Qt8KOCN-seCOTZocdgiVZHr56AVzSRiR-fSnzBBYXDGZkhO5aw

Harvard Admissions Data Shows That America Loves Affirmative Action—for Whites.

"According to their findings, more than 43 percent of the white students admitted were ALDC (A= Athletes, L = Legacies, D = Deans list, C = Children of Faculty). But the share for African Americans, Asian Americans, and Latinos was less than 16 percent. Furthermore, the research shows, roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if not for their ALDC status. Finally, eliminating preferences for athletes and legacies would make the pool of admitted students much less white."

They act like this is news. Approximately 75% of the Harvard student body is admitted on the basis of something other than test scores and grades. It is interesting that Harvard has dropped to # 2 on USNWR and #7 on the Forbes list.

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2021/09/13/us-news-tweaks-its-methodology

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.thedailybeast.com/harvard-admissions-data-shows-that-america-loves-affirmative-actionfor-whites?fbclid=IwAR0Ay8Sf2Qt8KOCN-seCOTZocdgiVZHr56AVzSRiR-fSnzBBYXDGZkhO5aw

Harvard Admissions Data Shows That America Loves Affirmative Action—for Whites.

"According to their findings, more than 43 percent of the white students admitted were ALDC (A= Athletes, L = Legacies, D = Deans list, C = Children of Faculty). But the share for African Americans, Asian Americans, and Latinos was less than 16 percent. Furthermore, the research shows, roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if not for their ALDC status. Finally, eliminating preferences for athletes and legacies would make the pool of admitted students much less white."

Every analysis I’ve seen shows that removing all preferential admissions (legacy, athlete, affirmative action) would drastically decrease Hispanic and black numbers, slightly increase white numbers and significantly increase Asian numbers. The interesting thing is that while the number of white students would go up, they wouldn’t be the same students that would have been accepted before. They would be the super qualified unhooked students that can’t get in today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The lawsuit against them for discriminating against Asian American students uses SAT scores as evidence. This is probably part of the decision. They can get the class demographics they want without the discrimination proof.

If this is true than this is horrible.

Of course, it's true. I knew testing would be optional on the date the lawsuit was filed. The admission standard will continue to shift as schools are forced to admit candidates that are unwanted. You cant make a private university take a student because of a test... now there are no required tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.thedailybeast.com/harvard-admissions-data-shows-that-america-loves-affirmative-actionfor-whites?fbclid=IwAR0Ay8Sf2Qt8KOCN-seCOTZocdgiVZHr56AVzSRiR-fSnzBBYXDGZkhO5aw

Harvard Admissions Data Shows That America Loves Affirmative Action—for Whites.

"According to their findings, more than 43 percent of the white students admitted were ALDC (A= Athletes, L = Legacies, D = Deans list, C = Children of Faculty). But the share for African Americans, Asian Americans, and Latinos was less than 16 percent. Furthermore, the research shows, roughly three-quarters of white ALDC admits would have been rejected if not for their ALDC status. Finally, eliminating preferences for athletes and legacies would make the pool of admitted students much less white."

Every analysis I’ve seen shows that removing all preferential admissions (legacy, athlete, affirmative action) would drastically decrease Hispanic and black numbers, slightly increase white numbers and significantly increase Asian numbers. The interesting thing is that while the number of white students would go up, they wouldn’t be the same students that would have been accepted before. They would be the super qualified unhooked students that can’t get in today.

The question is can the $$$ and can they donate generational wealth? I bet if they could the old system would be trashed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:" border="0" class="embeddedImage" />

Stunning. If you are Black and in the 4th (!!) academic decile (below average!!), you have the same chance as an Asian in the 10th decile, and a better chance than a white student in the 9th decile. Unless you are an athlete or legacy, if you are Asian or white, you are kind of screwed. I am sure Harvard does not like this kind of data to make the world news, hence the shift in policy. The pandemic just provided a good excuse.
I do wonder what will happen to the quality of a Harvard education now that H is focusing more and more on social engineering. Will the top students group into certain majors? Or will classes be watered down to fit the social experiment? I already know H grades are meaningless. Will a H diploma be meaningless soon, too? (I am exaggerating - I know it won't be literally meaningless)

[Anonymous]

The thing is Harvard doesn’t even accept impressive blacks

Did lebron go to Harvard?

Or Nas? Nas wrote the greatest album of all time at 17-19 years old! Better than anything written by any high schooler ever!

Or mj?

Harvard selects pretty milquetoast blacks that are handmaidens to the neoliberal order

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:" border="0" class="embeddedImage" />

Stunning. If you are Black and in the 4th (!!) academic decile (below average!!), you have the same chance as an Asian in the 10th decile, and a better chance than a white student in the 9th decile. Unless you are an athlete or legacy, if you are Asian or white, you are kind of screwed. I am sure Harvard does not like this kind of data to make the world news, hence the shift in policy. The pandemic just provided a good excuse.
I do wonder what will happen to the quality of a Harvard education now that H is focusing more and more on social engineering. Will the top students group into certain majors? Or will classes be watered down to fit the social experiment? I already know H grades are meaningless. Will a H diploma be meaningless soon, too? (I am exaggerating - I know it won't be literally meaningless)

Wow, aren’t yet giving too much preference to the Blacks over Hispanics? Is it the George Floyd effect or it has been even before the BLM?

[Anonymous]

I went to a top 10 school in the early 2000s. My Black roommate had middling grades in high school, never studied, never made friends, and flamed out. I never could figure out how she got in--it didn't even seem like she wanted to be there. She once told me that she'd been strongly encouraged to apply based on inner city recruitment.