Hoco Redistricting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents, now, have drawn a line between their interests and teacher interests, and they claim teacher's interests aren't aligned with students' interests and needs.
However, do parents also get this angry at their medical professionals or veterinary professionals, or other concerns that they patronize? Their offices weren't open for quite awhile, well after school opened, and some still aren't. It was, and still is, a global pandemic and quite a bit adaptation is required. Students really don't get to decide when it was appropriate to return to the classroom, and neither do parents. The school return coincided with with vaccine rollout, and not all teachers were able to get a vaccine upon the start of school opening. There were also teachers with comorbidities, pregnant teachers, etc., so it was quite problematic and frightening.

Some of the loudest parents weren't actually expected to be back in a building for their own work, and still aren't expected back, but expected teachers to be. Some of the loudest parents had a running start quite a bit before COVID, with online take downs of schools, teachers, the school board, and Central Office. Redistricting online conversations, and school board election rhetoric were some of the worst examples many had ever seen.

Regarding some errant and tangential comment from one or a few teachers about the union not truly representing them, they are truly definitely in the minority. Teachers were, and are, fighting for a safe working environment.

What is happening is that parents will get their wish, going forward... if keep putting the hammer down, denigrating the system, and the teachers- the only teachers available will be hundreds of first year newbies that will last a couple of years, if that. One wonders if there will ever be a viable bus situation again. . Teachers and staff have had enough. These past years were hard for everyone, very hard. Parents were, of course, stressed beyond belief- they had kids at home, they still had to work, online school wasn't as ideal as F2F. F2F wasn't designed that way before COVID, hard to create a new curriculum on a dime, but most did their best to make it work as much as possible. Teachers, however, aren't front line workers, and they definitely are not
day care. Not all situations were going to be ideal.

Are you a teacher? I hope not.

No, but why do you "hope not?"

Because the "school is not childcare" line is antagonistic and dismissive of the benefits of in-person learning that were lost.

Funny that you hoped that the poster "wasn't a teacher" and assumed teachers would just sacrifice themselves for "the benefits of in-person learning that were lost." Why would you assume teachers would do that? Why?

Very entitled.

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

I can't admit that because it's not an accurate statement. No, the safety of adults and children should be prioritized. No, remote school wasn't ideal, but the deaths of people would have been a tragedy. Why can't you admit that?

[Anonymous]

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

I can't admit that because it's not an accurate statement. No, the safety of adults and children should be prioritized. No, remote school wasn't ideal, but the deaths of people would have been a tragedy. Why can't you admit that?

You can't say one word about the harm to children caused by school closures. I won't say that the needs of children and adults were prioritized equally because that's untrue. The educational and social needs of students were given low priority in school reopening decisions and discussions. Even if absolute safety was a realistic goal, prioritizing safety from COVID over other needs absolutely favored adults, given that children are at lower risk from COVID and lost the most from school closures.

At this point, it doesn't matter who was right or who was wrong. The reality is that people like you refuse to acknowledge any harm to children caused by keeping school buildings closed which is itself a tragedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

I can't admit that because it's not an accurate statement. No, the safety of adults and children should be prioritized. No, remote school wasn't ideal, but the deaths of people would have been a tragedy. Why can't you admit that?

You can't say one word about the harm to children caused by school closures. I won't say that the needs of children and adults were prioritized equally because that's untrue. The educational and social needs of students were given low priority in school reopening decisions and discussions. Even if absolute safety was a realistic goal, prioritizing safety from COVID over other needs absolutely favored adults, given that children are at lower risk from COVID and lost the most from school closures.

At this point, it doesn't matter who was right or who was wrong. The reality is that people like you refuse to acknowledge any harm to children caused by keeping school buildings closed which is itself a tragedy.

Resiliency, parent. Resiliency. Very few people were willing to sacrifice themselves to keep schools open, as one can imagine. Harm to children? Really? What kind of harm? Good grief. Please don't mention suicides, because I saw a lot of those comments online. These are parents who were unaware of all the suicides before COVID. These are are parents who didn't understand quite a bit of things about children and mental health- what schools already knew.
Get a grip. Considering all that went on, schools did as much as they could. Your kids weren't going to get Plan A, maybe not Plan B, but, the program was viable and present. The children's outcome largely depended on how the parents learned to accomodate. Schools don't close for flimsy reasons. Again, this was, and is, a pandemic. Schools are still a hot mess...no bus drivers, a truncated staff with no replacements, constant quarantines.

Teachers are barely coping.
In the end, they are the heroes for doing as much as they could in the toughest time in history with only negative push back from entitled parents. Be glad you live in an area that cares for people, not politics. This could have been another state, who saw death and illness in opening school prematurely-as a result of politics.

This wasn't supposed to be easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

I can't admit that because it's not an accurate statement. No, the safety of adults and children should be prioritized. No, remote school wasn't ideal, but the deaths of people would have been a tragedy. Why can't you admit that?

You can't say one word about the harm to children caused by school closures. I won't say that the needs of children and adults were prioritized equally because that's untrue. The educational and social needs of students were given low priority in school reopening decisions and discussions. Even if absolute safety was a realistic goal, prioritizing safety from COVID over other needs absolutely favored adults, given that children are at lower risk from COVID and lost the most from school closures.

At this point, it doesn't matter who was right or who was wrong. The reality is that people like you refuse to acknowledge any harm to children caused by keeping school buildings closed which is itself a tragedy.

Yes, it does matter, because parents like yourself might be deluded into thinking this is political and then vote for idiots who actually do not have any educational priorities to promote other than what some parents think are priorities. And they are parents who do not have ANY idea what a good educational system looks like because they are so focused on themselves and their lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

It should also be noted that those daycare options were exceptionally limited. 99% absolutely did not find adequate child care. Where There did your stat come from? Not any reality that I am aware of. There weren't openings for everyone. With regards to actual home daycare or even private center daycare, those individuals had to apply initially to be servicers of emergency personnel. Later, these openings were pretty restricted.

Let me also point out that it is super tough to keep daycare centers staffed now. Home daycare providers are also hard to find. Let's not forget home nurses and aides, dental hygienists, nursing home staff, veterinarians, techs, etc. These, teachers included, are the backbone of our society and we learned that they won't allow themselves to be exploited . They need to be respected and paid appropriately. That's what unions do.

Teachers weren't going to die because of the danger of potential educational losses. In a crisis, there are priorities. Teachers are also parents, many of them. It was hard for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

I would agree but teachers returned to the classroom before the majority of kids were vaccinated. They returned 5 days a week with masked kids just like what happened the previous year in private schools.
Guess what happened? Nothing.
No mass casualties of teaching staff. No major outbreaks. A big nothing burger.

So who was being sacrificed as teachers fought to not open schools again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

It should also be noted that those daycare options were exceptionally limited. 99% absolutely did not find adequate child care. Where There did your stat come from? Not any reality that I am aware of. There weren't openings for everyone. With regards to actual home daycare or even private center daycare, those individuals had to apply initially to be servicers of emergency personnel. Later, these openings were pretty restricted.

Let me also point out that it is super tough to keep daycare centers staffed now. Home daycare providers are also hard to find. Let's not forget home nurses and aides, dental hygienists, nursing home staff, veterinarians, techs, etc. These, teachers included, are the backbone of our society and we learned that they won't allow themselves to be exploited . They need to be respected and paid appropriately. That's what unions do.

Teachers weren't going to die because of the danger of potential educational losses. In a crisis, there are priorities. Teachers are also parents, many of them. It was hard for everyone.

Did any childcare workers in this county die? Did teachers in Caroll County die when they went back? It is clear that teacher health was prioritized, which isn't a terrible thing, but the choice was not virtual or certain death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

I would agree but teachers returned to the classroom before the majority of kids were vaccinated. They returned 5 days a week with masked kids just like what happened the previous year in private schools.
Guess what happened? Nothing.
No mass casualties of teaching staff. No major outbreaks. A big nothing burger.

So who was being sacrificed as teachers fought to not open schools again?

Disagree. There were many COVID cases, and still are. There definitely were deaths
nationally, perhaps not in your specific area, but remember Md has a higher vaxx rate. Those who got COVID in HOCO schools didn't die, perhaps, but many will deal with other longer term Covid symptoms, and lastly, these teachers put themselves in a position of spreading to vulnerable others..their own parents, their own spouses or kids. So, I'm not sure how anyone can categorically decide "no mass casualties." Many vulnerable teachers applied for leave or quit, so you have zero data on that.

Had the teachers not vaccinated, you definitely would have seen deaths. The teachers I knew were desperately trying to get vaccinated before the buildings opened..they had little notice, and there were many who started partially vaccinated.
But, you are here complaining about school not opening even before- when there were no vaccinations. There were many deaths nationally of schools who opened before vaccinations.

Private schools employ teachers who do not have to have certification or even experience. Their salaries are much lower, few have decent benefits, especially health. If they decided that it was unsafe to return to a building, they would do so with the loss of salary and any benefits. There is no union protecting their job or their life, and there is no union ensuring that they are qualifued to even be a teacher. Private schools are a business. They aren't there for the purpose of education primarily, and people forget that. Private schools are a service industry. If they closed, and they should have, they would lose their entire operation because parents aren't going to pay for a remote situation that the public schools already had. By staying open, they accommodated parents who wanted their kids in school, as a service, but it wasn't because they were being virtuous and noble about the perils of educational loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

I would agree but teachers returned to the classroom before the majority of kids were vaccinated. They returned 5 days a week with masked kids just like what happened the previous year in private schools.
Guess what happened? Nothing.
No mass casualties of teaching staff. No major outbreaks. A big nothing burger.

So who was being sacrificed as teachers fought to not open schools again?

Disagree. There were many COVID cases, and still are. There definitely were deaths
nationally, perhaps not in your specific area, but remember Md has a higher vaxx rate. Those who got COVID in HOCO schools didn't die, perhaps, but many will deal with other longer term Covid symptoms, and lastly, these teachers put themselves in a position of spreading to vulnerable others..their own parents, their own spouses or kids. So, I'm not sure how anyone can categorically decide "no mass casualties." Many vulnerable teachers applied for leave or quit, so you have zero data on that.

Had the teachers not vaccinated, you definitely would have seen deaths. The teachers I knew were desperately trying to get vaccinated before the buildings opened..they had little notice, and there were many who started partially vaccinated.
But, you are here complaining about school not opening even before- when there were no vaccinations. There were many deaths nationally of schools who opened before vaccinations.

Private schools employ teachers who do not have to have certification or even experience. Their salaries are much lower, few have decent benefits, especially health. If they decided that it was unsafe to return to a building, they would do so with the loss of salary and any benefits. There is no union protecting their job or their life, and there is no union ensuring that they are qualifued to even be a teacher. Private schools are a business. They aren't there for the purpose of education primarily, and people forget that. Private schools are a service industry. If they closed, and they should have, they would lose their entire operation because parents aren't going to pay for a remote situation that the public schools already had. By staying open, they accommodated parents who wanted their kids in school, as a service, but it wasn't because they were being virtuous and noble about the perils of educational loss.

So you agree the teachers union kept schools closed.
We agree that the teachers union represents teachers and not students and families.
Private schools opened because they knew that parents would be unhappy if they didn't and they found a safe way to do so which prioritized families/students/parents because they have to because they exist for the sole reason of educating students and keeping parents' needs met too.

Teachers were fully vaccinated by mid April. Most essential workers were not fully vaccinated by then. Shot clinics were diverted to vaccinate teachers from elderly care centers even though the union would not agree to return to buildings even when fully vaccinated. Private schools had no major public health issues or concerns including covid outbreak or teacher deaths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

I would agree but teachers returned to the classroom before the majority of kids were vaccinated. They returned 5 days a week with masked kids just like what happened the previous year in private schools.
Guess what happened? Nothing.
No mass casualties of teaching staff. No major outbreaks. A big nothing burger.

So who was being sacrificed as teachers fought to not open schools again?

Disagree. There were many COVID cases, and still are. There definitely were deaths
nationally, perhaps not in your specific area, but remember Md has a higher vaxx rate. Those who got COVID in HOCO schools didn't die, perhaps, but many will deal with other longer term Covid symptoms, and lastly, these teachers put themselves in a position of spreading to vulnerable others..their own parents, their own spouses or kids. So, I'm not sure how anyone can categorically decide "no mass casualties." Many vulnerable teachers applied for leave or quit, so you have zero data on that.

Had the teachers not vaccinated, you definitely would have seen deaths. The teachers I knew were desperately trying to get vaccinated before the buildings opened..they had little notice, and there were many who started partially vaccinated.
But, you are here complaining about school not opening even before- when there were no vaccinations. There were many deaths nationally of schools who opened before vaccinations.

Private schools employ teachers who do not have to have certification or even experience. Their salaries are much lower, few have decent benefits, especially health. If they decided that it was unsafe to return to a building, they would do so with the loss of salary and any benefits. There is no union protecting their job or their life, and there is no union ensuring that they are qualifued to even be a teacher. Private schools are a business. They aren't there for the purpose of education primarily, and people forget that. Private schools are a service industry. If they closed, and they should have, they would lose their entire operation because parents aren't going to pay for a remote situation that the public schools already had. By staying open, they accommodated parents who wanted their kids in school, as a service, but it wasn't because they were being virtuous and noble about the perils of educational loss.

So you agree the teachers union kept schools closed.
We agree that the teachers union represents teachers and not students and families.
Private schools opened because they knew that parents would be unhappy if they didn't and they found a safe way to do so which prioritized families/students/parents because they have to because they exist for the sole reason of educating students and keeping parents' needs met too.

Teachers were fully vaccinated by mid April. Most essential workers were not fully vaccinated by then. Shot clinics were diverted to vaccinate teachers from elderly care centers even though the union would not agree to return to buildings even when fully vaccinated. Private schools had no major public health issues or concerns including covid outbreak or teacher deaths.

Let's clarify the above. Private schools weren't accommodating parents for the parent or children's sake. They were accommodating their business- the same way a restaurant accommodates patrons in order to keep their business going.

Teachers are unionized in order to create a professional work atmosphere. Teachers have certifications and advanced degrees, with everyone working in a safe environment. Nope, private schools are not unionized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? Even if the decision to close schools, and keep them closed was the right thing to do under the circumstances, the consequences of the closures for children are real. None of this is about loss of childcare. Safety, primarily of adults, we given the highest priority over other needs. That demand for safety had consequences, some of which were very harmful to students. Why can't you admit that?

DP (than you are debating with).
You are not paying attention. One of the most frequent complaints in school board meetings, in interviews, in polls, is that parents, especially parents that have job restrictions (e.g. have to be in the office and for specific times), are very upset about not having childcare. They rely on the school system for childcare and either cannot find a childcare location to replace in-person school or cannot afford childcare alternatives to public school.

This complaint has been frequent in many school districts including HCPSS, PGCSS and AAPS.

This is ridiculous. This debate is not about childcare. 99.9% of parents found adequate childcare during the pandemic closures. If you remember correctly, the camps were open because their teacher staff were underpaid daycare staff which weren't unionized.

When the school system wants to really address the issues and stop throwing smokescreens so it looks like it's parental selfishness and not actual disservice to the kids in the state, then we can start fixing the long term issues caused by the closures.

Not unionized is another word for exploitative. No matter what the issues were or weren't, you were asking teachers to sacrifice their health and their lives and they heard that. Loudly.

I would agree but teachers returned to the classroom before the majority of kids were vaccinated. They returned 5 days a week with masked kids just like what happened the previous year in private schools.
Guess what happened? Nothing.
No mass casualties of teaching staff. No major outbreaks. A big nothing burger.

So who was being sacrificed as teachers fought to not open schools again?

Disagree. There were many COVID cases, and still are. There definitely were deaths
nationally, perhaps not in your specific area, but remember Md has a higher vaxx rate. Those who got COVID in HOCO schools didn't die, perhaps, but many will deal with other longer term Covid symptoms, and lastly, these teachers put themselves in a position of spreading to vulnerable others..their own parents, their own spouses or kids. So, I'm not sure how anyone can categorically decide "no mass casualties." Many vulnerable teachers applied for leave or quit, so you have zero data on that.

Had the teachers not vaccinated, you definitely would have seen deaths. The teachers I knew were desperately trying to get vaccinated before the buildings opened..they had little notice, and there were many who started partially vaccinated.
But, you are here complaining about school not opening even before- when there were no vaccinations. There were many deaths nationally of schools who opened before vaccinations.

Private schools employ teachers who do not have to have certification or even experience. Their salaries are much lower, few have decent benefits, especially health. If they decided that it was unsafe to return to a building, they would do so with the loss of salary and any benefits. There is no union protecting their job or their life, and there is no union ensuring that they are qualifued to even be a teacher. Private schools are a business. They aren't there for the purpose of education primarily, and people forget that. Private schools are a service industry. If they closed, and they should have, they would lose their entire operation because parents aren't going to pay for a remote situation that the public schools already had. By staying open, they accommodated parents who wanted their kids in school, as a service, but it wasn't because they were being virtuous and noble about the perils of educational loss.

So you agree the teachers union kept schools closed.
We agree that the teachers union represents teachers and not students and families.
Private schools opened because they knew that parents would be unhappy if they didn't and they found a safe way to do so which prioritized families/students/parents because they have to because they exist for the sole reason of educating students and keeping parents' needs met too.

Teachers were fully vaccinated by mid April. Most essential workers were not fully vaccinated by then. Shot clinics were diverted to vaccinate teachers from elderly care centers even though the union would not agree to return to buildings even when fully vaccinated. Private schools had no major public health issues or concerns including covid outbreak or teacher deaths.

Let's clarify the above. Private schools weren't accommodating parents for the parent or children's sake. They were accommodating their business- the same way a restaurant accommodates patrons in order to keep their business going.

Teachers are unionized in order to create a professional work atmosphere. Teachers have certifications and advanced degrees, with everyone working in a safe environment. Nope, private schools are not unionized.

The work environment in private schools was safe throughout 2020-2021 and open in person. No outbreaks recorded in 90% of counties.
I think the issue which is up for debate is when the Teachers Association's "safe and professional working environment' is a moving target which does not prioritize any of the goals parents have for their children.

You can lash out and say we don't care about your working conditions, fair enough, but maybe take a giant step back and take an unbiased look as to why. And it's not "daycare" or "we don't care".

Do not use social media to make it seem like not supporting a teachers association's end goal means it's a battle with teachers.
It's not.
It's not a vote for teachers being underpaid and in bad working conditions.

It's different priorities and as parents who pay taxes and elect the board of education, it's our right to voice and push for those priorities. Private schools may open for their business, but that a very shallow view on private schools. It's not like the catholic schools are money making machines. They opened because they could work out a proven sfe environment for kids and staff without wading through layers of politics and paperwork. Whether you think public school teachers are better or more education is an aside to all of it and debatable. If parents cared about that, their kids would be in public, right? Becasue usually private school parents have a choice?

Fight for what you need career-wise. Don't expect parents to fight with you in all cases. Our priorities don't match up right now and that's okay. It's not a war on teachers. It's reality of a long lasting pandemic which has exposed dysfunction and priorities have shifted.

Fighting whether a unionized workplace is better or not is not the point. It's the simply fact of acknowledging that the union is not for parents and their children. It's a teachers' union.

[Anonymous]

And yes, this discussion refers to the past because that is the example of some HOCO parent here denigrating the public system because of opening, non opening issues.