Basis elements

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
How are the upper grades in AAP in Fairfax? I would think the same thing would be applicable there? After a certain point, you can't join a gifted program because you'll be too far behind.

If a kid were to join Fairfax AAP in 8th grade, the available math classes would be Honors Geometry and Honors Algebra I. Most bright kids coming from any school in the country would be at one of those levels. 8th graders at BASIS need to be ready for Algebra II, which very few kids would have. Also, bright high schoolers entering Fairfax can pick and choose regular, honors, or AP for each subject, based on readiness. BASIS for the most part has all of the kids in AP.

I think for BASIS, the math is honestly the biggest barrier. Any gifted program with overly accelerated math would be the same way. Fairfax and a lot of other places have much more flexibility for math placement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Outside of math, I don't understand why you can't join BASIS at a later grade. Doesn't BASIS give you a chance to choose a new foreign language in 9th grade? Also, AP level history isn't really that difficult? It's more a matter of learning how to read efficiently and having good study skills -- which can be taught.

Well, math really is the sticking point. Kids take the same language in 7th-12th, but a kid could probably join in 9th and catch up via tutoring. English and History would be manageable for any Honors/AP student. Math, physics, and chemistry are the classes where a kid who is behind the basis track would not be able to catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not going to happen. BASIS' approach has always been to weed around half the middle school kids out before HS, to grind them into submission by making them miserable. This has been their MO in Arizona since the early 90s. Trust me, the kids who can't move at a "brisker pace" will mostly be gone by 9th grade. You simply need to be patient for the Hobbesian results to kick in.

BASIS parent in AZ here. That's not at all how it works, and many of the kids are very happy at BASIS. Mine absolutely love it! It is true that the 5th grade class is around 180 kids, but only about 90 seniors graduate per year. Most of it is not due to weeding out the kids, but rather kids leave to attend the local magnet high school (think TJ-lite), move out of area, want a new social scene, or want competitive high school sports teams. None of these reasons for leaving are that the kids were weeded out. I would imagine that DC BASIS is similar, where many families use it for middle school and then switch out for high school.

The main reason BASIS graduates only half of their starting kids is that the system is set up to make it nearly impossible for new kids to join after maybe 6th grade. If a kid leaves after 8th grade, they can't simply offer the slot to another kid. Few kids would meet the pre-requisites if they hadn't been in BASIS all along. At least at my kids' school, to join in 9th grade, a kid would need to be ready for pre-calculus, be ready for an AP level history class, and have a full year of high school level foreign language. There isn't a lot of wiggle room to accommodate kids who aren't at that level.

Nonsense. BASIS exceptionalism gets old. It's not all that unusual for students in DC privates to take, and excel at, calculus by 10th grade, along with a few at Walls and Wilson. The foreign language requirements at BASIS are light (absurdly so) for kids coming in from strong K-8 language immersion programs, years in weekend heritage schools, bilingual and bilterate homes etc. AP history in 9th or 10th grade is nothing special in the District. There doesn't need to be wiggle room if BASIS DC would bother to identify and admit 9th graders who could handle their curriculum, which is hardly stratospheric. Some private school parents would switch to public if 9th grade at BASIS were an option, to save dough.

PS. I've interviewed one or two Basis DC applicants for my Ivy every year for the past five years. None has been admitted. I've interviewed a few stronger applicants from Walls and Wilson who were admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many 5th graders? 135? How many 9th graders? 60?

Most of the students may indeed be happy, but PP is not wrong.

That's how it works. Most of the middle students leave before high school. That's what you signed up for. Basis doesn't track in middle school other than for math. They're very clear about this.

I don't think the school is trying to make kids miserable and grind them into submission, that's ridiculous. It's challenging. Kids have to be organized. It's not a good fit for every kid. Those that want a challenge love it.

Come on, they're absolutely trying to shed certain students. Not most students, but a good many.

My kid got straight As at Basis, qualified for Johns Hopkins CTY with SATs in the 600s after 6th grade, tested into the most advanced middle school math. But he didn't love the program, not by a long shot. He loves attending a school with playing fields, performing arts, serious sports, a strong music program etc.

You again? Why do you bother posting here?

Why do you bother to claim universal love for BASIS on the part of students who crave challenge? You do this on every BASIS thread.

Common sense tells us that it's a hard sell for schools with crappy facilities and enrichment to inspire love. Like maybe, love , no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Nonsense. BASIS exceptionalism gets old. It's not all that unusual for students in DC privates to take, and excel at, calculus by 10th grade, along with a few at Walls and Wilson. The foreign language requirements at BASIS are light (absurdly so) for kids coming in from strong K-8 language immersion programs, years in weekend heritage schools, bilingual and bilterate homes etc. AP history in 9th or 10th grade is nothing special in the District. There doesn't need to be wiggle room if BASIS DC would bother to identify and admit 9th graders who could handle their curriculum, which is hardly stratospheric. Some private school parents would switch to public if 9th grade at BASIS were an option, to save dough.

I'm not suggesting any degree of BASIS exceptionalism. Most schools don't prioritize math acceleration to the degree that BASIS does. Thus, most kids would not be sufficiently advanced in math to be allowed into BASIS. I can't speak for DCPS kids, but it is quite rare for FCPS AAP kids to take Algebra II in 8th. That would be needed to be ready for pre-calc at BASIS in 9th. I don't necessarily agree with the rigid math requirements at BASIS, but they are a significant barrier.

AZ BASIS schools allow kids to join at any grade level beyond 5th, providing that they pass a placement test for that grade level. My kid joined in 7th and had to score highly enough on the pre-Algebra final exam as well as on a grammar/reading/writing test to indicate readiness for Algebra I and 7th grade language arts. I don't know why BASIS DC doesn't do the same.

[Anonymous]

Of course there are kids at Deal/Wilson, privates and elsewhere learning as much math and science as at BASIS. But the problem is Basis is a charter school operating through a lottery system that prevents it from cherry-picking top-performing students. There is no test in option available because DC politics don’t allow it.

Your kid might do just fine entering in at 9th. The vast, vast, vast majority of DC kids would not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Nonsense. BASIS exceptionalism gets old. It's not all that unusual for students in DC privates to take, and excel at, calculus by 10th grade, along with a few at Walls and Wilson. The foreign language requirements at BASIS are light (absurdly so) for kids coming in from strong K-8 language immersion programs, years in weekend heritage schools, bilingual and bilterate homes etc. AP history in 9th or 10th grade is nothing special in the District. There doesn't need to be wiggle room if BASIS DC would bother to identify and admit 9th graders who could handle their curriculum, which is hardly stratospheric. Some private school parents would switch to public if 9th grade at BASIS were an option, to save dough.

I'm not suggesting any degree of BASIS exceptionalism. Most schools don't prioritize math acceleration to the degree that BASIS does. Thus, most kids would not be sufficiently advanced in math to be allowed into BASIS. I can't speak for DCPS kids, but it is quite rare for FCPS AAP kids to take Algebra II in 8th. That would be needed to be ready for pre-calc at BASIS in 9th. I don't necessarily agree with the rigid math requirements at BASIS, but they are a significant barrier.

AZ BASIS schools allow kids to join at any grade level beyond 5th, providing that they pass a placement test for that grade level. My kid joined in 7th and had to score highly enough on the pre-Algebra final exam as well as on a grammar/reading/writing test to indicate readiness for Algebra I and 7th grade language arts. I don't know why BASIS DC doesn't do the same.

How heartening. AZ school systems must not be plagued by the toxic racial and class politics that afflict DC public schools. Also, it sounds like charter LEA arrangements must be quite different than in AZ. Finally, DC interprets federal charter law a lot more strictly/narrowly than many states. Really a shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course there are kids at Deal/Wilson, privates and elsewhere learning as much math and science as at BASIS. But the problem is Basis is a charter school operating through a lottery system that prevents it from cherry-picking top-performing students. There is no test in option available because DC politics don’t allow it.

Your kid might do just fine entering in at 9th. The vast, vast, vast majority of DC kids would not.

So the unqualified should be directed not to apply. Advertise the admissions requirements, negotiate with DCPCB and the City Council to admit somewhat selectively for high school, and encourage applications from students who can handle the curriculum. Done. Where there's no will there's no way.

[Anonymous]

^^That is one of the most naive postings I’ve read in a BASIS thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^That is one of the most naive postings I’ve read in a BASIS thread.

Seriously! The only public school in DC that does (some) screening that I am aware of is SWS. Other than that, schools aren't allowed to screen out kids who can't cut it - it is pure lottery (so if BASIS opened up 9th grade, inevitably kids would attempt to lottery in even if they did not have the necessary solid/advanced foundation in math to handle the curriculum).

[Anonymous]

So let them lottery in and promptly flunk them out to spread the word on how the arrangement works. That's essentially what happened when BASIS DC opened more than a decade back. In the first several years, around 15% of the 6th and 7th graders were held back annually, dozens of kids forced to repeat a grade to stay in the program. That percentage of those being held back has been way down ever since, around 2% now. The word got out that the BASIS middle school curriculum is no walk in the park, no exceptions. Some of you must not have been tuning in from the get go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^That is one of the most naive postings I’ve read in a BASIS thread.

Not really.

[Anonymous]

Some of you may not know that back in 2011, when BASIS got permission to open a DC campus, the franchise was able to negotiate a special deal with DCPCB and the City Council to open DC's first public middle school without social promotion. At every other DC public middle school, 6th an 7th grade students who fail to meet academic standards to work at grade level have been free to advance to the next grade since the 1980s.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the BASIS franchise could negotiate a new deal to arrange for 9th graders to test in, like they do in AZ and elsewhere. Problem is, the franchise has been hassled so much politically in DC from the start that they're pretty clearly not going to bother to try to negotiate new terms. They haven't sought permission to open a second or third campus in the District, as they've done in several of the states where they established a foothold around the same time BASIS DC opened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many 5th graders? 135? How many 9th graders? 60?

Most of the students may indeed be happy, but PP is not wrong.

That's how it works. Most of the middle students leave before high school. That's what you signed up for. Basis doesn't track in middle school other than for math. They're very clear about this.

I don't think the school is trying to make kids miserable and grind them into submission, that's ridiculous. It's challenging. Kids have to be organized. It's not a good fit for every kid. Those that want a challenge love it.

Come on, they're absolutely trying to shed certain students. Not most students, but a good many.

My kid got straight As at Basis, qualified for Johns Hopkins CTY with SATs in the 600s after 6th grade, tested into the most advanced middle school math. But he didn't love the program, not by a long shot. He loves attending a school with playing fields, performing arts, serious sports, a strong music program etc.

You again? Why do you bother posting here?

Why do you bother to claim universal love for BASIS on the part of students who crave challenge? You do this on every BASIS thread.

Common sense tells us that it's a hard sell for schools with crappy facilities and enrichment to inspire love. Like maybe, love , no.

Common sense tells us that people who are no longer at a school should stop posting about it. My kid loves the classes and teachers and does not give the building a moment's thought. Goes to the gorgeous MLK library a block or two away, museums, and the Mall after school. I'm happy for you that your kid found a private school that's a better fit for him. Don't worry about people who love Basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^That is one of the most naive postings I’ve read in a BASIS thread.

Seriously! The only public school in DC that does (some) screening that I am aware of is SWS. Other than that, schools aren't allowed to screen out kids who can't cut it - it is pure lottery (so if BASIS opened up 9th grade, inevitably kids would attempt to lottery in even if they did not have the necessary solid/advanced foundation in math to handle the curriculum).

What screening does SWS do? Do you mean SWW high school - school without walls?