MCPS - MSA Testing - NO TALKING!?

[Anonymous]

Anyone who has kids in MCPS is probably already aware that their children will be taking the MSA (Maryland State Assessments) in the coming weeks. With everything being data driven these days, MCPS takes the tests/scores very seriously. In order to meet AYP (Annual Yearly Progress) schools must meet/exceed the standards set for them by the state. Naturally, there are multiple rules that are enforced during the administration of such tests. Many of the rules are common sense...teachers can't have certain things displayed in their classrooms that would in any way give away an answer, teachers can't prompt a student or ask them if they're sure they have selected the right answer, etc. The list goes on and on. What concerns me is what I heard from an MCPS teacher recently. Apparently, schools have "testing meetings" prior to the administration of these tests. At this time, the staff is informed of all rules, procedures, etc. New this year (and I'm not sure if this is coming down from MCPS or higher-ups/the state) is the fact that the kids aren't allowed to speak until the entire test is over (which may last the entire morning). Let me clarify: obviously kids can't talk during a test. However, given the nature of the somewhat lengthy sessions administered each day, short breaks are built into the testing schedule. In the past, during such breaks (~5 - 10 minutes in length) kids would stretch, walk around the room and quietly talk with their classmates. This year, kids aren't allowed to speak at all during such breaks. Even if the class is taken to the bathroom between testing sessions, there is no talking. My friend (MCPS elementary school teacher) was told that there will be someone coming around during testing to make sure this NO TALKING rule is enforced...and if it's not being enforced the classroom teacher will be reported to the county for violating said rule. I was wondering if any other MCPS parents had heard this NO TALKING rule as well, and if so, what do you think about it?

[Anonymous]

How long is the whole testing procedure and what grades are we talking? It's a strict policy, but is not completely unreasonable for older elementary and, say, less than 3 hours. It may have something to do with the way test problems are ordered in the booklets, the need to keep the whole cluster of classrooms quiet, and the difficulty of restoring focus after a proper break. Assuming they're not really little kids, they'll live.

[Anonymous]

So you object to the "no talking" policy but not the tests themselves? I used to teach in the county and one of the many reasons I don't anymore is the testing has gotten WAY out of control. Teachers teach to the test b/c if they don't, they may no longer have a job. The admin may not say those words exactly but everyone understands this. The school I worked in would out and out bribe the kids during testing week to 1) come to school (many kids' parents wouldn't send them that week b/c it was a just testing that they never received an individual report for anyway 2) be quiet during the test 3) actually take the test. It was beyond incredible the pressure that our entire school felt about these tests. I actually had to help clean up quite a few throw up incidents b/c the kids would vomit from anxiety before or during the tests. The whole thing is really absurd.

[Anonymous]

I don't see why no talking is a problem. I don't object to it.

[Anonymous]

I don't have a problem with testing. How else do you propose to determine which schools are in fact teaching students what they're required to know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you object to the "no talking" policy but not the tests themselves? I used to teach in the county and one of the many reasons I don't anymore is the testing has gotten WAY out of control. Teachers teach to the test b/c if they don't, they may no longer have a job. The admin may not say those words exactly but everyone understands this. The school I worked in would out and out bribe the kids during testing week to 1) come to school (many kids' parents wouldn't send them that week b/c it was a just testing that they never received an individual report for anyway 2) be quiet during the test 3) actually take the test. It was beyond incredible the pressure that our entire school felt about these tests. I actually had to help clean up quite a few throw up incidents b/c the kids would vomit from anxiety before or during the tests. The whole thing is really absurd.

So you're done teaching, PP? I hear for some teachers that the transference of teaching skills into other arenas is easy - a science teacher for example working at NIH. for others . . . not so easy!

FWIW, I totally disagree with the tests, too. But I do know of some fabulous colleagues who are still able to be creative despite the fact that these tests are looming over their heads.

[Anonymous]

So you're done teaching, PP? I hear for some teachers that the transference of teaching skills into other arenas is easy - a science teacher for example working at NIH. for others . . . not so easy!

FWIW, I totally disagree with the tests, too. But I do know of some fabulous colleagues who are still able to be creative despite the fact that these tests are looming over their heads.


No, I am not done with teaching. I love teaching especially when it is relevant to real life. I have no problem w/ assessment at all b/c it is important to know how kids are progressing. But these tests don't care about the individual student at all (or they would issue ind. reports to each student). I have had quite a few students come into school not speaking any English at all but failed these tests. If the tests measured their progress, I would be all for it. I now teach in a private school. I have taught in a few different public schools over the years and the only ones where anything creative was being done were the ones in nicer, affluent neighborhoods with high test scores. I guess the admin there didn't feel so pressured to "pass the tests" since they were not only passing them but were earning very high marks. The 2 other schools I taught at were in areas with lower test scores and it was all business there. Frequently no recess. Special area classes were cut out for many months prior to the tests to make extra time for well, teaching to the test. I hope that after the economy is dealt with, the new admin will look to the future of education.

[Anonymous]

Explain this to me:

I am looking at various schools in my district in Maryland and can find their MSA Report Card, which lists percentage of students who score Basic, Proficient and Advanced on Reading and Math tests, in grades 2 through 6, I think.

Do the parents not get individual reports of how their child did on each MSA test, each year?

Sorry for thread drift.

OP -- the No Talking rule does seem as if it will add yet another stressor onto the teachers giving the test (Keep those kids quiet or risk a testing infraction and possibly your job) and the teachers will no doubt pass that stress on to the children if so.

[Anonymous]

Parents do get a report for their child whether he/she scored basic, proficient or advanced. Thing is, the test is very basic and tests on grade level. If your kid is testing at "advanced" year after year...well, it tells you very little. And the school isn't interested really either. It's all about getting kids "on the bubble" between basic and proficient, and proficient and advanced to test better. And yes, schools are holding MSA pep rallies, offering iPods and bikes as incentives to coming to school every day and being prepared to test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parents do get a report for their child whether he/she scored basic, proficient or advanced. Thing is, the test is very basic and tests on grade level. If your kid is testing at "advanced" year after year...well, it tells you very little. And the school isn't interested really either. It's all about getting kids "on the bubble" between basic and proficient, and proficient and advanced to test better. And yes, schools are holding MSA pep rallies, offering iPods and bikes as incentives to coming to school every day and being prepared to test.

This test is for everyone in Maryland, not just MCPS, am I correct?

Are there groups in Maryland that are lobbying to change the test?

I taught in Virginia for years and came on board just as they were bringing in the SOLs (VA state testing) -- this predated No Child Left Behind. There was a lot of difficulty with the changeover, but I have to say, those tests were solid tests of mastery -- not just language arts and math, but also social studies and science. There was angst and stress, and still is, but overall IMO the tests have improved instruction and challenged more students. I wonder if Maryland State could be encouraged to at least move to a better test?

[Anonymous]

Yes, the MSA is for everyone in a MD public school. The old test, the MSPAP seemed to make a bit more sense to me as a teacher but still both are ridiculous. The teaching to the test begins in K. I don't think No Child Left Behind is up for renewal for a few more yrs.