can't test until 3rd grade?
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Anonymous
| I'm confused. DD is in first grade and is 7 and we are taking her to CNMC for a neuropysch with ADHD and LDs as possible issues. I've had two friends tell me that they heard you can't even test for ADHD until 3rd grade. Why is it that other children already have diagnoses then? I'm so confused. Although this might explain why MCPS has not initiated any testing yet. |
Anonymous
Your friends who tell you that you can't test for ADHD until 3rd grade are wrong. Testing can definitiely be done. IQ testing can be done regardless of age, and so can achievement testing; both are basic parts of a complete psycho-educational or neuropsychological exam. The thing with ADHD is that there are some tests, using a computer, where, if a child doesn't perform well, it would be hard to tell whether it was because of ADHD or because any child that age just isn't developmental ready to listen to a set of complicated instructions, use a computer and pay attention to meaningless stimuli for 15+ minutes. This is why, generally, age 6 or 7 is the youngest for SOME of the assessments that are used for ADHD. But, other ADHD assessments, which rely on teachers and parents answering checklist of questions, may, together with observation, result in a preliminary ADHD diagnosis even before 6/7; however at this early age, you will find many psychologists will give the diagnosis in less firm terms "may have" or "tends to" or "exhibits symptoms of" while acknowledging that the definitive testing/diagnosis will be given as the child ages if they continue to show the same symptoms. Even this less firm diagnosis can be used in the IEP process. Similarly for LDs -- our dyslexic, dysgraphic child had clear indicators of his LD prior to 3rd grade. Extensive speech and language testing when he was almost 5 showed that he had an expressive/receptive language disorder (MERLD) and very weak phonetic identification, segmentation and blending skills (the underlying skills to read). This was also enough that it could have gotten him an IEP. However, it wasn't until he had repeat testing in 2nd grade, that his problems were clearly identified and acknowledged as a learning disability in reading and writing by the school. This is because kids aren't really even instructed in reading until somewhere in the K-2 years, so there is no expectation yet that they can read. Nonetheless, there are still reading achievement tests and language tests which can differentiate young kids who are already falling behind in some of the foundational reading skills. Have you written a letter to your MCPS school explaining in writing that you think your child is struggling in school, may have some disorder like ADHD or an LD, and that you would like the school to consider her for an IEP so that she can get specialized instruction? Unless you do this, MCPS really has no obligation to test her, and will not be motivated to do so until she falls 2 or more years behind in academic level and/or starts having behavioral issues. |
Anonymous
| Thanks PP - so would you still go ahead with the neuropsych at age 7? |
Anonymous
|
My son just had a neuropsych evaluation and he is 7.4 and in 2nd grade. According to both the neuropsych and our child psychiatrist, the most common age for an ADHD diagnosis is 7 yrs old.
So no, your DD is not too young for a neuropsych evaluation. |
Anonymous
|
OP-- I have heard, and I am no expert, that ADD can be more difficult to diagnose until around the third grade. The exceptions may be ADHD for more noticeable impulsivity, hyperactivity, and learning issues. I was told that ADD without the above three, can have a variety of symptoms that are harder to pin down until a child is a bit older.
The way we are narrowing in our eight year old DS (likely ADD/inattentive) is that his friends are settling down, working through distractions and maturing socially. My DS (second grade) is still at heart the same kid he was in K. He just didn't progress with classmates in terms of executive functions. I have noticed that there are big social and developmental jumps between ages 6-8 that become much more obvious if a kid hasn't made them. |
Anonymous
PP again- I wanted to add that seven is a good age for an IQ test and achievement test if you're concerned about learning issues or some areas that *could* indicate ADD/ADHD such as processing speed. Not too old or too young. Achievement test results can also indicate learning issues, but I take them with a grain of salt because the sections are (IMO) too brief to get a full picture. My DS got a 148 (99.9th percentile) on the WJ written section and was ironically diagnosed with a language based learning disability 6 months later. He scored a 178 in broad math but thus far has not started a college calculus class in second grade-- so we're fairly confident that he's not a math prodigy. |
Anonymous
PP with the kid with both ADHD/ASD. My child has high average processing speed and superior working memory but was diagnosed with ADHD bc he is unable to sit still and runs around like a maniac. No learning disabilities. It takes him longer to do a project bc he gets up and wanders around when he should be working. Interestingly, he does not do this on meds. I thought this behavior was a stim from the ASD but apparently not. He also got 100% on the TOVA screening but it's a computer screen too much like a video game so the neuropsych who is very experienced with both ASD and ADHD threw those results out. DS has been evaluated many times since he was 4 but the neuropsych at 7 which found the ADHD has been very helpful - just as helpful if not more than the ASD diagnosis. |
Anonymous
| Thanks all. This is OP. DD is 7 1/2 and seems to have either executive function or ADHD (inattentive). Plus the reading teacher has suggested "retention and processing" issues. (I am not sure exactly what that means). So I think we will go ahead with the neuro-psych. My main goal is to see if there is an identifiable problem so we can figure out how to best help her. |
Anonymous
PP here- the one whose kid has a language LD and probable ADD. The retention and processing issues are a red flag (at least to me). As another pp pointed out kids with ADHD do not necessarily have processing and working memory issues but when they come up, they can certainly point in that direction. In my mind, it seems to delineate between "I'm not paying attention because this is boring and I would rather do something else" (annoying and age appropriate for early elementary) and actual learning and performance issues. As the parent, you may notice that your DD has problems with timed tests (e.g. math facts), reading comprehension, extreme meltdowns over homework-- or some aspect of it like writing or math. My son would become irrational over writing and reading comprehension homework. He was able to get the answers correct, but made what we thought were careless errors. Turns out, that even though he was able to do a decent job, on grade level short writing and reading worksheets were so much harder for him than math. |
Anonymous
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Some doctors/researchers (including NIH) diagnose as early as four so it's not unheard of.
However, they usually only diagnose the hyperactive type at an early age. The inattentive type is much harder to diagnose at a young age as there are fewer academic demands. Plus some of the issues could just be related to maturity or slow development rather than ADHD and a lot of evaluators want to be cautious. The reason why some people say to wait until third grade is because that's when most issues related to maturity or development "even out." This is why some school districts wait until this age to start testing kids into gifted programs. |
Anonymous
Yes, definitely. It can show many useful things that may be affecting your DC and that can be addressed by the school, even if testing might not yet able to definitively define ADHD -- slow processing, memory problems, overall high composite scores may break down into very uneven strengths/weaknesses that can be causing problems. Plus, we found it very useful to have early neuropsych/assessment (we had initial full speech/language and IQ testing at age 5, but not the neuro part because 5 was really too young for that). When we had to get testing done again 3 years later in 3rd grade, we were able to show that "average" scores represented a "significant" decline from the same testing 3 years earlier, thus proving the point that "regular instruction" wasn't working for our DC. As another PP pointed out, our DC didn't progress between K and 3rd like other children progressed. He appeared average with problems that the school said weren't creating educational impact in K, but by 3rd, even though he was still "average" (although a lower average than previously), the school couldn't say anymore that there was no educational impact. So, for example, if he was reading at the 75th percentile in K, he was then down to the 50th percentile by 3rd grade. School would have said "50th%ile" is fine. But, in the context of comparing to earlier neuropsych, 50%ile was actually quite concerning, indicating that he wasn't benefiting from regular instruction as would be expected. |
Anonymous
Your daughter sounds very similar to my son and we did the neuropsych in December 2013 when he was 7 3/4 and I'm so glad we did. We learned a lot and had explanations for some of the "quirky" things he does. ADHD wasn't even on my radar for him because he's not at all disruptive, but he does have ADHD Inattentive Type and it was discovered via computer testing because he visually appears to be paying attention, but he zones out. He also has major executive function (primarily working memory) issues, which we're working on - if he can get the information into his long term memory, he's golden. 
The IQ testing portion was helpful to me because I wasn't sure how much to expect from him (if that makes sense). I didn't want to expect more than he would ever be able to do, nor do I want him to slack off if he's capable of more. With the results, I now know what to expect and maybe "push" a little, if necessary. I know they're expensive, but I found it to be very helpful and worth the expense. Good Luck! |
Anonymous
We did Pre-K and again after 1st grade. Do not wait if you think something is off. |
Anonymous
| I think why your friends had third grade stuck in their heads is that 3rd grade is when a lot of kids unravel at school b/c the learning demands are greater and the LDs or ADHD that they've managed to "cope" with catches up with them. It's why applications for many SN schools go up at 3rd and 4th grade. |
Anonymous
| Hadn't heard that one. And I have been holding out until 7, which for my child is summer between first and second grade. |