Reading group question - NOT an advanced reader

[Anonymous]

Sorry for another reading group thread, but it didnt feel right to hijack somebody elses thread with question aimed in different direction. My DC is NOT an advanced reader, didnt read at all prior to K. Now DC is at level E and I think it is too advanced. DC has been progressing steadily through levels per books sent home and is proud of progress. BUT he doesnt know at least 40-50% of the words in the book on first read and doesnt sound them out (I dont think he actually knows "sound out" concept). On second go he "reads" the book well, bu tI believe it is mostly due to memorization. We read at home with scholastic readers and he is solidly at level A (no issues) and can read 80% of level B. I am reluctant to raise my concern with teacher but am also worried that DC will be in higher group without mastering the basics? WWYD?

[Anonymous]

I once asked the teacher a similar question. They are not looking for 100% mastery. I think more like 80..could have been 90 though. She tested him after my concern to double check.

[Anonymous]

We had the same experience last year when DD was in K. I mentioned it at the parent teacher conference and the teacher said it was normal. I know as parents we expect them to know every single word in the book to be at that level but I don't think that is how it works... Wish I could be more help.

[Anonymous]

What are the words your DC is not sounding out. I believe the "ranking" is based on knowledge of "high frequency words." If the child gets those right, they advance.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for another reading group thread, but it didnt feel right to hijack somebody elses thread with question aimed in different direction. My DC is NOT an advanced reader, didnt read at all prior to K. Now DC is at level E and I think it is too advanced. DC has been progressing steadily through levels per books sent home and is proud of progress. BUT he doesnt know at least 40-50% of the words in the book on first read and doesnt sound them out (I dont think he actually knows "sound out" concept). On second go he "reads" the book well, bu tI believe it is mostly due to memorization. We read at home with scholastic readers and he is solidly at level A (no issues) and can read 80% of level B. I am reluctant to raise my concern with teacher but am also worried that DC will be in higher group without mastering the basics? WWYD?

The kid isn't supposed to be working on books with reading group that he can read easily on his own. That would be pointless. The purpose is to help him learn how to handle words that he would otherwise have trouble with.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, my gifted but unidentified-as-dyslexic child was doing this -- "reading a book" by guessing based on contextual comprehension and the identification of just a few letters. His K, 1st and 2nd grade teachers never noticed and kept passing him up. I could see, when I "volunteered" in class one day, that DS was mumbling through the first group read and then, reading more clearly (after he heard what the text said from his peers) on the second group read and solo with the teacher.

For some examples of mistakes -- DC would read "black" where the word might be "balk", or sometimes he would even put a word in that made sense but bore no relationship to the real word ("milk" where the text said "cream" -- he knew that one puts milk in coffee but didn't know how to read the 'EAM' of "cream".) Or he would read a word but mix up or drop syllables or small endings like "ing" or skip small words. The teachers basically wrote off these mistakes as "little things" but they were the tip of the iceberg of what was going on.

I would write a letter to your DC's teacher and give specific examples from a text you read with your child of the kinds of mistakes being made. Say you think he is reading by context/guessing and not decoding. Then ask your teacher to re-check his "level". Also ask for them to test his ability to read words in isolation -- normal as well as non-sensical. Ask them to test both fiction and "informational" literature, in particular "informational" text on a subject about which your DS has no prior knowledge.

I expressed my concerns for a couple of years, with increasing specificity and decreasing deference. Only when I finally broke down and paid for outside testing, did we find out that my DS actually had a reading problem which he was able to mask by using overall comprehension as a clue because of his really strong vocabulary and memory. He couldn't decode well and it only became more apparent to the school when he began to write and spelling "counted". By that time (3rd grade) it was harder and more costly to remediate.

Sadly, the school insisted all along that the real problem was that DS wasn't that smart, that I was the real problem because I couldn't accept that he was just "average" (which can be as low as the bottom 25th percentile). They took that tack until I presented them with the $5000 worth of testing that showed otherwise.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, my gifted but unidentified-as-dyslexic child was doing this -- "reading a book" by guessing based on contextual comprehension and the identification of just a few letters. His K, 1st and 2nd grade teachers never noticed and kept passing him up. I could see, when I "volunteered" in class one day, that DS was mumbling through the first group read and then, reading more clearly (after he heard what the text said from his peers) on the second group read and solo with the teacher.

For some examples of mistakes -- DC would read "black" where the word might be "balk", or sometimes he would even put a word in that made sense but bore no relationship to the real word ("milk" where the text said "cream" -- he knew that one puts milk in coffee but didn't know how to read the 'EAM' of "cream".) Or he would read a word but mix up or drop syllables or small endings like "ing" or skip small words. The teachers basically wrote off these mistakes as "little things" but they were the tip of the iceberg of what was going on.

I would write a letter to your DC's teacher and give specific examples from a text you read with your child of the kinds of mistakes being made. Say you think he is reading by context/guessing and not decoding. Then ask your teacher to re-check his "level". Also ask for them to test his ability to read words in isolation -- normal as well as non-sensical. Ask them to test both fiction and "informational" literature, in particular "informational" text on a subject about which your DS has no prior knowledge.

I expressed my concerns for a couple of years, with increasing specificity and decreasing deference. Only when I finally broke down and paid for outside testing, did we find out that my DS actually had a reading problem which he was able to mask by using overall comprehension as a clue because of his really strong vocabulary and memory. He couldn't decode well and it only became more apparent to the school when he began to write and spelling "counted". By that time (3rd grade) it was harder and more costly to remediate.

Sadly, the school insisted all along that the real problem was that DS wasn't that smart, that I was the real problem because I couldn't accept that he was just "average" (which can be as low as the bottom 25th percentile). They took that tack until I presented them with the $5000 worth of testing that showed otherwise.....

OP here. WOW, thank you, very helpful to keep in mind. In my view thats exactly what he does "guess" words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, my gifted but unidentified-as-dyslexic child was doing this -- "reading a book" by guessing based on contextual comprehension and the identification of just a few letters. His K, 1st and 2nd grade teachers never noticed and kept passing him up. I could see, when I "volunteered" in class one day, that DS was mumbling through the first group read and then, reading more clearly (after he heard what the text said from his peers) on the second group read and solo with the teacher.

For some examples of mistakes -- DC would read "black" where the word might be "balk", or sometimes he would even put a word in that made sense but bore no relationship to the real word ("milk" where the text said "cream" -- he knew that one puts milk in coffee but didn't know how to read the 'EAM' of "cream".) Or he would read a word but mix up or drop syllables or small endings like "ing" or skip small words. The teachers basically wrote off these mistakes as "little things" but they were the tip of the iceberg of what was going on.

So I've got an average kid (not gifted, no special needs). He also does some guessing of words from context and pictures, but the teacher tells me they are taught these methods, in addition to decoding. In fact, she says parents do a disservice by always telling the kids to sound it out, as there are more strategies than that one. I thought that was interesting.

[Anonymous]

So I've got an average kid (not gifted, no special needs). He also does some guessing of words from context and pictures, but the teacher tells me they are taught these methods, in addition to decoding. In fact, she says parents do a disservice by always telling the kids to sound it out, as there are more strategies than that one. I thought that was interesting

Yes, my son's teacher said that using those strategies (guessing from context and pictures) is fine at his level (K). It may be more of an issue later on. I do notice that when my son tries to sound out words, he will correctly make the sound of ever letter, but then have trouble blending it into the word. Either the long/short vowels are wrong, or he just can't extrapolate because the letter sounds are not exactly identical to the pronunciation of the word.

[Anonymous]

On second go he "reads" the book well, bu tI believe it is mostly due to memorization. We read at home with scholastic readers and he is solidly at level A (no issues) and can read 80% of level B

Also, what time of day are you reading with him at home? I was reading with my son before bed and he wasn't doing too well because he was tired. We tried on a weekend in the middle of the day, and it was incredible how much better he was.

[Anonymous]

We were told the opposite- that the guided reading was supposed to be easier than what they read on their own.

[Anonymous]

OP again. Clearly I need to talk to the teacher. Thank you all for info!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Clearly I need to talk to the teacher. Thank you all for info!

I think you do. I had no clue how the reading groups worked (except my kid complained the books are too easy) and I finally just asked the teacher. It sounds like different schools do it differently, so you're not going to get a definitive answer on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So I've got an average kid (not gifted, no special needs). He also does some guessing of words from context and pictures, but the teacher tells me they are taught these methods, in addition to decoding. In fact, she says parents do a disservice by always telling the kids to sound it out, as there are more strategies than that one. I thought that was interesting

Yes, my son's teacher said that using those strategies (guessing from context and pictures) is fine at his level (K). It may be more of an issue later on. I do notice that when my son tries to sound out words, he will correctly make the sound of ever letter, but then have trouble blending it into the word. Either the long/short vowels are wrong, or he just can't extrapolate because the letter sounds are not exactly identical to the pronunciation of the word.

Ah yes, but for the early dyslexic reader, they need explicit instruction in how to identify whether there is a long/short vowel sound, and practice blending and segmenting letter sounds. Now that he has had appropriate instruction (for him), DS can actually explain WHY a word sounds like it does -- "it's a closed syllable so that means it will be a short vowel sound, but if it had an "e" on the end it would change to a long vowel sound." DS has a sibling who was an early reader and is now in high school. To this day she can't explain why words sound the way they do, to her they just do.

FWIW, in MCPS there is very little actual teaching of decoding or phonics. Kids are taught the initial sounds of letters in K. They are really not systematically taught short v. long vowel sounds, blends, or other systematic letter grouping sounds. In first grade, there is still very little "decoding" or phonics teaching. They basically read aloud in reading group and are expected to implicitly make the association between what they hear and what they see on the page. For the majority of kids, this approach works fine. But for many others, it doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz offers some very good examples in different age ranges of problems that dyslexic kids typically exhibit.