Suspending PreK Students?

[Anonymous]

David Grosso has re-introduced his bill to ban the suspension of preK students. On the one hand, I'd hope that there wouldn't be a reason to suspend a child that young. On the other hand, I've heard of some really bad behaviors that the teacher can't handle in class. If it's an issue of keeping other kids safe, suspension should be an option.

[Anonymous]

So what's your question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:David Grosso has re-introduced his bill to ban the suspension of preK students. On the one hand, I'd hope that there wouldn't be a reason to suspend a child that young. On the other hand, I've heard of some really bad behaviors that the teacher can't handle in class. If it's an issue of keeping other kids safe, suspension should be an option.

I would once have agreed to a blanket ban of suspension of PK kids, but I have experienced some behaviors that many of the other options would not address. Moving the child to another classroom would simply relocate the problematic behaviors. I do think that the school and parents and social services at school need to work together to help the child learn appropriate behavior, but I understand that it's tough to do that in a way that doesn't result in the other kids in class getting ignored or abused by the problem child.

[Anonymous]

What are the actual rates of suspension of preK students in DCPS? How many per year? Is this an actual problem that needs a solution? Honest questions. I really have no idea, but it seems strange to speculate about unless there's actual evidence that it's happening.

[Anonymous]

I talked to a neighbor whose 3 year old grandson was sent home a couple times in the middle of the day for excessively hitting other kids largely due to not getting enough sleep at night. I'm not sure what the best way for schools/DC to handle these situations is.

[Anonymous]

Grosso is too liberal for his own good. Schools should have all options available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:David Grosso has re-introduced his bill to ban the suspension of preK students. On the one hand, I'd hope that there wouldn't be a reason to suspend a child that young. On the other hand, I've heard of some really bad behaviors that the teacher can't handle in class. If it's an issue of keeping other kids safe, suspension should be an option.

I would once have agreed to a blanket ban of suspension of PK kids, but I have experienced some behaviors that many of the other options would not address. Moving the child to another classroom would simply relocate the problematic behaviors. I do think that the school and parents and social services at school need to work together to help the child learn appropriate behavior, but I understand that it's tough to do that in a way that doesn't result in the other kids in class getting ignored or abused by the problem child.

I don't understand what a suspension will help? Won't it just throw the kid out of whack and then the behavioral problems will be even worse? I'm particularly concerned about this because of:
a)the higher rates of suspension among minority students vs white; and
b)suspension would probably mean either a parent has to take a day off of work (which they likely can't afford and could potentially lose their job) or lack of supervision for the kid. Either way, it won't improve behavior...

I guess I have problems with suspension in general, but it seems particularly bad for preK students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:David Grosso has re-introduced his bill to ban the suspension of preK students. On the one hand, I'd hope that there wouldn't be a reason to suspend a child that young. On the other hand, I've heard of some really bad behaviors that the teacher can't handle in class. If it's an issue of keeping other kids safe, suspension should be an option.

I would once have agreed to a blanket ban of suspension of PK kids, but I have experienced some behaviors that many of the other options would not address. Moving the child to another classroom would simply relocate the problematic behaviors. I do think that the school and parents and social services at school need to work together to help the child learn appropriate behavior, but I understand that it's tough to do that in a way that doesn't result in the other kids in class getting ignored or abused by the problem child.

I don't understand what a suspension will help? Won't it just throw the kid out of whack and then the behavioral problems will be even worse? I'm particularly concerned about this because of:
a)the higher rates of suspension among minority students vs white; and
b)suspension would probably mean either a parent has to take a day off of work (which they likely can't afford and could potentially lose their job) or lack of supervision for the kid. Either way, it won't improve behavior...

I guess I have problems with suspension in general, but it seems particularly bad for preK students.

PP here. I agree with everything you've said. I wish there was a way to appropriately use suspensions for very extreme cases of behavioral problems in young kids. In the situations I've observed in my daughter's PK4 class, so many of the behavioral problems are really just kids becoming accustomed to being in a school. For some of them, this year was their first year in a group environment and there are certain boundaries and rules that are specific to school and groups that they just didn't know. Some of them have more serious behavioral problems, some of which are related to special needs. The special needs issues are addressed by the special needs teachers. The other behavioral issues which are unrelated to a diagnosed medical issue are usually dealt with by the classroom teacher unless it escalates to a level where the principal needs to get involved.

[Anonymous]

I do think there should be some program for pre-K and other students who are harming other students either emotionally or physically. I met one DC teacher who told me that they had a pre-K kid who continually exposed and touched themselves inappropriately in classroom as well as hit other children and threw chairs and what not around. This teacher said that this was happening on an almost daily basis and the Children and Youth and the parents were called multiple times to no avail. I do not think the other students should be subjected to this behavior at all. DCPS should have separate classrooms and better yet separate schools for these emotionally disturbed children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I talked to a neighbor whose 3 year old grandson was sent home a couple times in the middle of the day for excessively hitting other kids largely due to not getting enough sleep at night. I'm not sure what the best way for schools/DC to handle these situations is.

Well, I think it is totally unacceptable to subject other children to aggressive behavior. There should be separate schools for these kids or least separate classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think there should be some program for pre-K and other students who are harming other students either emotionally or physically. I met one DC teacher who told me that they had a pre-K kid who continually exposed and touched themselves inappropriately in classroom as well as hit other children and threw chairs and what not around. This teacher said that this was happening on an almost daily basis and the Children and Youth and the parents were called multiple times to no avail. I do not think the other students should be subjected to this behavior at all. DCPS should have separate classrooms and better yet separate schools for these emotionally disturbed children.

I'm one of the PPs with a daughter in PK4. My child has been "the victim" of one of the children you're describing. While the protective parent in me wants that child removed from her classroom and put into a special class where he can't hurt anyone, the rational part of me knows that that's not possible. That that child will benefit from being in a classroom with other children who do know how to respect boundaries. I was satisfied with the steps the school took to supervise that child more closely and ultimately am glad that he is able to remain in a classroom with other children. That normal experience is a counter to whatever else he has going on in his life that is aggravating the problematic behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think there should be some program for pre-K and other students who are harming other students either emotionally or physically. I met one DC teacher who told me that they had a pre-K kid who continually exposed and touched themselves inappropriately in classroom as well as hit other children and threw chairs and what not around. This teacher said that this was happening on an almost daily basis and the Children and Youth and the parents were called multiple times to no avail. I do not think the other students should be subjected to this behavior at all. DCPS should have separate classrooms and better yet separate schools for these emotionally disturbed children.

I'm one of the PPs with a daughter in PK4. My child has been "the victim" of one of the children you're describing. While the protective parent in me wants that child removed from her classroom and put into a special class where he can't hurt anyone, the rational part of me knows that that's not possible. That that child will benefit from being in a classroom with other children who do know how to respect boundaries. I was satisfied with the steps the school took to supervise that child more closely and ultimately am glad that he is able to remain in a classroom with other children. That normal experience is a counter to whatever else he has going on in his life that is aggravating the problematic behavior.

Yes, ideally all children should be kept in the classroom. However, it is not the job of other kids to fix students with behavioral issues. Also, how did the school fix it without depriving all of the other students of the teacher's time and attention? Did they provide a 1 on 1 aide for this out of control child? if not then I think it would be unacceptable to keep such an out of control child in a regular classroom at the expense of all of the other students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think there should be some program for pre-K and other students who are harming other students either emotionally or physically. I met one DC teacher who told me that they had a pre-K kid who continually exposed and touched themselves inappropriately in classroom as well as hit other children and threw chairs and what not around. This teacher said that this was happening on an almost daily basis and the Children and Youth and the parents were called multiple times to no avail. I do not think the other students should be subjected to this behavior at all. DCPS should have separate classrooms and better yet separate schools for these emotionally disturbed children.

I'm one of the PPs with a daughter in PK4. My child has been "the victim" of one of the children you're describing. While the protective parent in me wants that child removed from her classroom and put into a special class where he can't hurt anyone, the rational part of me knows that that's not possible. That that child will benefit from being in a classroom with other children who do know how to respect boundaries. I was satisfied with the steps the school took to supervise that child more closely and ultimately am glad that he is able to remain in a classroom with other children. That normal experience is a counter to whatever else he has going on in his life that is aggravating the problematic behavior.

Yes, ideally all children should be kept in the classroom. However, it is not the job of other kids to fix students with behavioral issues. Also, how did the school fix it without depriving all of the other students of the teacher's time and attention? Did they provide a 1 on 1 aide for this out of control child? if not then I think it would be unacceptable to keep such an out of control child in a regular classroom at the expense of all of the other students.

The school addressed the problem by keeping the child closer to the teacher and intervening if there were problems. There have not been any that I have been made aware of (either by the classroom teacher, the boss or my child, who is pretty good at reporting what happens in class). The reality is that next year, that child will have a right to attend this school, the same as my child.

I do not like your solution of locking up all children with behavioral problems in special schools one bit, as it absolutely smacks of the terrible educational past. And where do you draw the line? How do you determine when a child's behavior is so egregiously out of control that s/he cannot be in class with other kids? What standards do you use? Who agrees? Is it a three strikes policy, or does the child get sent to the special school the first time? How do you determine if the child is making enough progress at behavioral improvement to stay in "regular class"? What happens if the kid has a crappy week and behavior backslides?

I haven't seen Grosso's bill. There have been stories recently about the harsher punishments meted out to young boys of color than children of other social groups. It's not a liberal conspiracy to keep abusive kids in the classroom. It's a liberal desire to actually help kids who need help, which cannot happen if the solution is "Throw those problem kids out of the classroom!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think there should be some program for pre-K and other students who are harming other students either emotionally or physically. I met one DC teacher who told me that they had a pre-K kid who continually exposed and touched themselves inappropriately in classroom as well as hit other children and threw chairs and what not around. This teacher said that this was happening on an almost daily basis and the Children and Youth and the parents were called multiple times to no avail. I do not think the other students should be subjected to this behavior at all. DCPS should have separate classrooms and better yet separate schools for these emotionally disturbed children.

I'm one of the PPs with a daughter in PK4. My child has been "the victim" of one of the children you're describing. While the protective parent in me wants that child removed from her classroom and put into a special class where he can't hurt anyone, the rational part of me knows that that's not possible. That that child will benefit from being in a classroom with other children who do know how to respect boundaries. I was satisfied with the steps the school took to supervise that child more closely and ultimately am glad that he is able to remain in a classroom with other children. That normal experience is a counter to whatever else he has going on in his life that is aggravating the problematic behavior.

Yes, ideally all children should be kept in the classroom. However, it is not the job of other kids to fix students with behavioral issues. Also, how did the school fix it without depriving all of the other students of the teacher's time and attention? Did they provide a 1 on 1 aide for this out of control child? if not then I think it would be unacceptable to keep such an out of control child in a regular classroom at the expense of all of the other students.

So the problem child is "closer" to the teacher therefore the teacher spends even more time on this one kid and ignores the advanced well behaved kids. I don't think people should get so hung up on if the suspensions are minority kids or not. Some of these kids come from horrific backgrounds and while school is probably the safest place for them, CPS needs to be involvd to find out why their parents or home environments are creating so many issues. I have heard enough about young girls being harassed by young boys in class to be highly concered about some of the agressive behavior that starts in K. the bullies are learning that from being in environemnts where they are wathcing violent and sxual video games in the home, experiencing and witnessing violence from their moms and their boyfriends and then taking that learned behcaivor into a classroom. No thanks. I have zero tolerance if my child is the victim.
The school addressed the problem by keeping the child closer to the teacher and intervening if there were problems. There have not been any that I have been made aware of (either by the classroom teacher, the boss or my child, who is pretty good at reporting what happens in class). The reality is that next year, that child will have a right to attend this school, the same as my child.

I do not like your solution of locking up all children with behavioral problems in special schools one bit, as it absolutely smacks of the terrible educational past. And where do you draw the line? How do you determine when a child's behavior is so egregiously out of control that s/he cannot be in class with other kids? What standards do you use? Who agrees? Is it a three strikes policy, or does the child get sent to the special school the first time? How do you determine if the child is making enough progress at behavioral improvement to stay in "regular class"? What happens if the kid has a crappy week and behavior backslides?

I haven't seen Grosso's bill. There have been stories recently about the harsher punishments meted out to young boys of color than children of other social groups. It's not a liberal conspiracy to keep abusive kids in the classroom. It's a liberal desire to actually help kids who need help, which cannot happen if the solution is "Throw those problem kids out of the classroom!"

[Anonymous]

I guess what I would like to see is something is not called a "suspension" but some kind of "pause" button, where the goal is to as quickly as possible (would be good to define maximum time out of school) for the necessary adjustments/arrangements/accommodations put in place. This "pause" is not a suspension, because the goal is not a punitive punishment of the child, but it does get recorded and it starts an official process that bring classroom teacher, administration, school counselor, social services, and the parents/guardians all into the same room to address the underlying issues.