My "brogrammer" workplace - does this sound sexist?

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I have been working for an IT company for six months, as a technical writer. I love the work, but the environment sucks. Some highlights:

-- In group of 50 programmers, only 2 women.
-- Upper management is all white males. Even among lower managers in non-techie areas, there are almost no women.
-- Profusion of secretaries in tight, revealing clothing. (I have taken to dressing like a nun, so as not to draw attention.)
-- Women never included in social activities, happy hour outings, etc. (Though admittedly, there are only a few to potentially include.)
-- General feeling of testosterone in the air

I have worked in IT for quite a while, but have never run across an environment like this. I feel quite isolated and strange, and know that there is no potential for upward movement, though I am in a fairly senior position.

How can I deal with this for another year or so?

[Anonymous]

For starters, stop dressing like a nun! Dress exactly how you want. Other women judge the most about clothes (even your 'secretary dress in revealing clothes' comment) so take advantage of the dirth of women and dress exactly as you want.

If you have been in IT before, you know it is always a majority male group, so how can you be surprised? Get to know your colleagues, give them a chance. It doesn't sound like you've experienced any real harassment, so I don't know why you are complaining.

[Anonymous]

Well, you presumably got hired by one of those white males, so how do you know they wouldn't be open to promoting you?
You have to ASK, of course. Most men can't divine these things by themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For starters, stop dressing like a nun! Dress exactly how you want. Other women judge the most about clothes (even your 'secretary dress in revealing clothes' comment) so take advantage of the dirth of women and dress exactly as you want.

If you have been in IT before, you know it is always a majority male group, so how can you be surprised? Get to know your colleagues, give them a chance. It doesn't sound like you've experienced any real harassment, so I don't know why you are complaining.

+1
I don't see how you are impacted by how assistants choose to dress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi,

I have been working for an IT company for six months, as a technical writer. I love the work, but the environment sucks. Some highlights:

-- In group of 50 programmers, only 2 women.
-- Upper management is all white males. Even among lower managers in non-techie areas, there are almost no women.
-- Profusion of secretaries in tight, revealing clothing. (I have taken to dressing like a nun, so as not to draw attention.)
-- Women never included in social activities, happy hour outings, etc. (Though admittedly, there are only a few to potentially include.)
-- General feeling of testosterone in the air

I have worked in IT for quite a while, but have never run across an environment like this. I feel quite isolated and strange, and know that there is no potential for upward movement, though I am in a fairly senior position.

How can I deal with this for another year or so?

Be very happy that you are not in a majority-Indian IT shop. Your workplace is not ideal, but believe me, there are worse.

[Anonymous]

Push your way in. Do you want to go to happy hour? Then show up. Hang out with the guys, socialize, interact. It's likely they aren't excluding you intentionally. If you don't like the environment, change it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For starters, stop dressing like a nun! Dress exactly how you want. Other women judge the most about clothes (even your 'secretary dress in revealing clothes' comment) so take advantage of the dirth of women and dress exactly as you want.

If you have been in IT before, you know it is always a majority male group, so how can you be surprised? Get to know your colleagues, give them a chance. It doesn't sound like you've experienced any real harassment, so I don't know why you are complaining.

+1
I don't see how you are impacted by how assistants choose to dress.

The implication is that the only women they hire are hot secretary types.

I'd start looking for a new job, but get what you can out of this one first. Does not sound like a toxic atmosphere, but not a good place if you want to advance without having to deal with gender crap.

[Anonymous]

Ummm what exactly is the problem?

[Anonymous]

i think that some men in IT are on the autism spectrum, and they lack social skills. They gravitate toward two types of women, 1. Secretaries in tight revealing clothes 2. intelligence strong professional women who don't act like their moms. Look at the wives and corporate officers who are women in places like Facebook, MircroSoft, etc.

Be the strong woman who advocates and speaks through your technical writing for these IT brogrammers who probably don't have the social or communication skills you think they have, and they will respect you. The hard nosed feminazi approach will not work with them.

[Anonymous]

I'm kind of surprised you aren't invited to happy hours. When I've worked in mostly-male workplaces (i.e. most of my jobs - I'm in finance), I've generally gotten invited out to happy hours almost immediately. It might be because you are dressing like a nun - they figure you are uptight and don't like to go drinking.

I've been in departments where I was literally the only female who wasn't an assistant/secretary - that was hard, actually. I kept getting lumped in with the other women, and asked to do stuff that no male in my position (manager, MBA, serious degrees) would ever be asked to do. It was really frustrating. But I had the social thing nailed.

How do you WANT to dress? You can dress like a non-nun and still be taken seriously. Sounds like you need to pick out a few of the programmers who seem the coolest and reach out to them individually - it can be about a work thing. Maybe get an invite to lunch, see if you can expand that to a happy hour invite at some point. And make sure you are friendly with the other woman - you need a female ally. (I am friends with the only other woman under 60 in my department.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi,

I have been working for an IT company for six months, as a technical writer. I love the work, but the environment sucks. Some highlights:

-- In group of 50 programmers, only 2 women.
-- Upper management is all white males. Even among lower managers in non-techie areas, there are almost no women.
-- Profusion of secretaries in tight, revealing clothing. (I have taken to dressing like a nun, so as not to draw attention.)
-- Women never included in social activities, happy hour outings, etc. (Though admittedly, there are only a few to potentially include.)
-- General feeling of testosterone in the air

I have worked in IT for quite a while, but have never run across an environment like this. I feel quite isolated and strange, and know that there is no potential for upward movement, though I am in a fairly senior position.

How can I deal with this for another year or so?

This must be a lie. Programmers are low T. I'm also dubious of the slutty secretary comment ... do you mean nerd slutty?

[Anonymous]

I have a friend who works in an IT start-up and she is the only woman and its very frat-boyish from the sounds of it. She gets frustrated too.

[Anonymous]

Lean in, honey!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi,

I have been working for an IT company for six months, as a technical writer. I love the work, but the environment sucks. Some highlights:

-- In group of 50 programmers, only 2 women.
-- Upper management is all white males. Even among lower managers in non-techie areas, there are almost no women.
-- Profusion of secretaries in tight, revealing clothing. (I have taken to dressing like a nun, so as not to draw attention.)
-- Women never included in social activities, happy hour outings, etc. (Though admittedly, there are only a few to potentially include.)
-- General feeling of testosterone in the air

I have worked in IT for quite a while, but have never run across an environment like this. I feel quite isolated and strange, and know that there is no potential for upward movement, though I am in a fairly senior position.

How can I deal with this for another year or so?

If you think something is amiss, it may be. That said, all of the stuff you list is debatable. General feeling of testosterone in the air is natural given that there are mostly men. The one thing I'd think about is that "women never included in happy hours" - if there are almost none, I wouldn't take that as a systemic sexism thing. maybe you should organize one and see what happens.

[Anonymous]

This is the big problem for the technology industry.