Math - pushing Math

[Anonymous]

Hi, I'd like to hear some insight from parents and especially parents of older children. Our oldest is in grade 1 and I have noticed that so many families work on math with their kids at home and that some kids are really advanced in math. I finished AP Calc BC in high school and my husband finished AP Statistics... I know there is no guarantee that our kids will finish these subjects, but I just never thought math was a big deal and I focused on reading to my kids. ( I realize my views are tainted by my own experience, having found SAT math so much easier than SAT verbal and in general math subjects easier than the advanced English courses). Even though I see many kids in my sons class doing higher level math, I am still not compelled to teach my son advanced math. He is still happily practicing addition and subtraction at home while there are kids who are well into multiplication.

I wonder if my approach will end up biting me as my kid gets older and the math standard seems to be getting higher. I just assumed our kids will follow math fine. Of course I would like them to reach their potential, but not at the cost of enjoying their childhood, and certainly not at the cost of other things I'd rather do with my kids with that time. Any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

I have to wonder if you want to push your kids. Why else post this in the AAP forum specifically?

[Anonymous]

I think you are seeing that many people don't trust the schools to teach math right. They are taking it into their own hands. Teachers are generally fairly good with language art, particularly in earlier years. Most people trust them to teach their child reading.

On the other hand, many research suggests that American teachers are lacking in basic understanding of math concepts and one study shows that they are the least likely to point out connections between different math concepts among educators from many other countries. This awareness and the push of STEM careers may push some parents into supplementing math at home. Also many people from this area comes from countries where math is more emphasized in general and they may feel that their kids are not getting enough math in schools.

I used to be on faculty in a major public university. I feel the need to take math into my own hands. I have seen too many college students who cannot do basic algebra, often because they are not good with even more basic concepts and skills. I don't trust the schools on math, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course I would like them to reach their potential, but not at the cost of enjoying their childhood, and certainly not at the cost of other things I'd rather do with my kids with that time. Any thoughts?

Doing math at home does not require much time or do anything to reduce a kids enjoyment of their childhood. You can do plenty at the early ages in 15 minute blocks and it does not need to be every day. No scores, no pressure, no behavior expectations - you can take it at whatever pace and focus on whatever topics you want. It does not require giving up any activity since you set the times. I would say my kid likes doing math with me at home more than he likes school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course I would like them to reach their potential, but not at the cost of enjoying their childhood, and certainly not at the cost of other things I'd rather do with my kids with that time. Any thoughts?

Doing math at home does not require much time or do anything to reduce a kids enjoyment of their childhood. You can do plenty at the early ages in 15 minute blocks and it does not need to be every day. No scores, no pressure, no behavior expectations - you can take it at whatever pace and focus on whatever topics you want. It does not require giving up any activity since you set the times. I would say my kid likes doing math with me at home more than he likes school.

+1. I have my child do Singapore math at home. A few minutes a day, a few days a week. That is it.

[Anonymous]

Maybe some of those kids enjoy math and want to do more of it. I wouldn't shut it down in the kids initiate. I was like this as a kid too.

And as for math being "less useful"?? It's amazing to see the ways that DC hasn't reached the 21st century yet. Check out the jobs of tomorrow and while obviously there's no rush at all for your children in that regard, you might change your tune about what might be valued.

[Anonymous]

Do math with your kids if you want to, or don't if you that suits. Past the early years and unless you derive your self worth from bragging about your kids, it seems to matter little. Here's what I've seen.

1. Kids who are smart in math tend to do well in math, whether they're pushed at the beginning or not. Case in point, my oldest now in college used to remark that he was behind in math because some kids in his class were doing multiplication in the 1st grade. He had passed those kids by 3rd grade and was teaching himself math on his own. By high school he was taking college courses; again, without pushing.

2. Now that it's become fashionable to push kids in math, skipping math 7 and 8 to take Algebra and Geometry in middle school (or even earlier in 6th grade), FCPS teachers are increasingly seeing kids who don't have enough grasp of the basics to succeed in high school math (starting with Algebra). My second child's 8th grade Geometry teacher recommended half of her classes retake Geometry in high school (that's right 50% of kids were not ready). Ask a sixth grade teacher at your kid's school how many parents she tries to discourage from pushing their kids ahead in math and still insist on doing so to keep up with the Jones'. It's sad.

3. Most kids pushed in math will run out of math classes at their high schools by junior and most certainly senior year unless they're at TJ. That's fine if they're math whizzes and want to pursue college courses, but could hurt kids who have been tutored and pushed in math and then forget what they've learned when SAT taking rolls around.

4. My brother is a math whiz who pushes his kids relentlessly in math. One is good at it and has been fine. Another is okay at math, but has started to develop a complex about his abilities since he can't seem to meet Dad's expectations. I think you really need to ask yourself why you're doing extra work in math with your kids. If it's because you don't think the schools can teach it, you'd be wrong. Plenty of kids excel in math around here simply by showing up to class and doing the work. What's changed is panicked parents demanding perfection from kids in all subjects as if their kids won't have a future if they don't get all A's. That's not any more true today than it was when we were all kids. There's a lot more to education than book work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do math with your kids if you want to, or don't if you that suits. Past the early years and unless you derive your self worth from bragging about your kids, it seems to matter little. Here's what I've seen.

1. Kids who are smart in math tend to do well in math, whether they're pushed at the beginning or not. Case in point, my oldest now in college used to remark that he was behind in math because some kids in his class were doing multiplication in the 1st grade. He had passed those kids by 3rd grade and was teaching himself math on his own. By high school he was taking college courses; again, without pushing.

2. Now that it's become fashionable to push kids in math, skipping math 7 and 8 to take Algebra and Geometry in middle school (or even earlier in 6th grade), FCPS teachers are increasingly seeing kids who don't have enough grasp of the basics to succeed in high school math (starting with Algebra). My second child's 8th grade Geometry teacher recommended half of her classes retake Geometry in high school (that's right 50% of kids were not ready). Ask a sixth grade teacher at your kid's school how many parents she tries to discourage from pushing their kids ahead in math and still insist on doing so to keep up with the Jones'. It's sad.

3. Most kids pushed in math will run out of math classes at their high schools by junior and most certainly senior year unless they're at TJ. That's fine if they're math whizzes and want to pursue college courses, but could hurt kids who have been tutored and pushed in math and then forget what they've learned when SAT taking rolls around.

4. My brother is a math whiz who pushes his kids relentlessly in math. One is good at it and has been fine. Another is okay at math, but has started to develop a complex about his abilities since he can't seem to meet Dad's expectations. I think you really need to ask yourself why you're doing extra work in math with your kids. If it's because you don't think the schools can teach it, you'd be wrong. Plenty of kids excel in math around here simply by showing up to class and doing the work. What's changed is panicked parents demanding perfection from kids in all subjects as if their kids won't have a future if they don't get all A's. That's not any more true today than it was when we were all kids. There's a lot more to education than book work.

Could not agree more.

[Anonymous]

Completely agree with everything 8:05 said.

My own kid is 2nd grade. He is interested in math; we answer his questions and encourage discussion about the concepts, but don't "push" unless he is "pulling" information from us.

Case in point, last night's dinner conversation started with "Mommy, what does it mean when a number has a 'period' and then another number? Like 5-period-3?" I have no idea why he asked, but he had seen a decimal number somewhere and was curious about it. He's already been learning fractions (partly in school, partly at home through these same kinds of conversations), so I explained that "zero-point-5" means five-tenths, 0.05 = 5 out of 100, etc. He asked a few follow-on questions (he was kind of blown away by the idea that 0.40 is equal to 0.4). He's also been learning greater-than/less-than at school, so I threw in a few "which is greater, 0.8 or 0.15?" type questions just to keep it interesting and tie it back to his schoolwork. Turnabout is fair play - after I give him a few questions, he creates a few "problems" for me to solve. He makes a game out of it. After 10 or 15 minutes, he moves on to another subject.

We tend to have these conversations over dinner, so we've started keeping a notepad and pencil at the table to sketch things out. Only when he asks, though. My goal is for him to enjoy math (and reading and history and art and PE and science, for that matter), not necessary to have the most knowledge that I could cram into his little brain. In the long run, I believe that a love of learning will take him further than any amount of drilling.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for the responses!! Especially 8:05, it's exactly what I needed to hear.

As for 12:37, it's interesting what you refer to as the jobs of tomorrow. We are both lawyers here even though we did all the AP sciences and math in high school. I continued with science and math in college only to realize I didn't like it. Do people really think that the jobs of tomorrow are all going to be in the STEM field. I agree wholeheartedly that everyone needs a good foundation in math and sciences to succeed in whatever they do. All my friends who are TJ grads (and who were very good at the math and sciences) all chose careers not in STEM: lawyers, bankers, professors in the liberal arts, etc. I'd like to hear more thoughts on the push towards STEM professions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Completely agree with everything 8:05 said.

My own kid is 2nd grade. He is interested in math; we answer his questions and encourage discussion about the concepts, but don't "push" unless he is "pulling" information from us.

Case in point, last night's dinner conversation started with "Mommy, what does it mean when a number has a 'period' and then another number? Like 5-period-3?" I have no idea why he asked, but he had seen a decimal number somewhere and was curious about it. He's already been learning fractions (partly in school, partly at home through these same kinds of conversations), so I explained that "zero-point-5" means five-tenths, 0.05 = 5 out of 100, etc. He asked a few follow-on questions (he was kind of blown away by the idea that 0.40 is equal to 0.4). He's also been learning greater-than/less-than at school, so I threw in a few "which is greater, 0.8 or 0.15?" type questions just to keep it interesting and tie it back to his schoolwork. Turnabout is fair play - after I give him a few questions, he creates a few "problems" for me to solve. He makes a game out of it. After 10 or 15 minutes, he moves on to another subject.

We tend to have these conversations over dinner, so we've started keeping a notepad and pencil at the table to sketch things out. Only when he asks, though. My goal is for him to enjoy math (and reading and history and art and PE and science, for that matter), not necessary to have the most knowledge that I could cram into his little brain. In the long run, I believe that a love of learning will take him further than any amount of drilling.

This. So true! You sound like a great mom to have.