Violence in Scripture. Let he who is without sin...

[Anonymous]

Interesting article on AlterNet (http://www.alternet.org/30-most-violent-exhortations-bible-torah-and-quran?paging=off¤t_page=1) testing whether people can identify the violent passages from different religious texts.

The following 30 violent exhortations are drawn from Jewish, Christian and Muslim scriptures. The generic word "God" is used for all deity names, and names of places or people have been replaced with generic terms. How well do you know your Torah, Bible or Quran and Hadith? Can you tell which is which? Give it a try and then check the key at the bottom.

1. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged.

2. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.

3. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.

4. Fight them until there is no more [disbelief or worshipping of other gods] and worship is for God alone.

5. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

6. Whoso fighteth in the way of God, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

7. Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

8. [God’s messenger]... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The [holy man] replied, "They [women and children] are from them [unbelievers]."

9. Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.”

10. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

11. Keep [my holiday], for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die.

12. The punishment of those who wage war against God and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

13. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.

14. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land...

15. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

16. I shall terrorize the [heathens]. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them, because they oppose God and his apostle.

17. A [holy man’s] daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.

18. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.

19. Everyone who would not seek God was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

20. And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.

21. But if [a girl wasn't a virgin on her wedding night] and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against God’s people by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.

22. The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O [believer]! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

23. If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.

24. God’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but God."

25. Cursed be he who does God’s work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.

26. God said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. [Prophet], you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But God desires killing them to manifest the religion."

27. Anyone who blasphemes God’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of [believers].

28. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) [your religion]; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them [a tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek God's help and fight them.

29. Anyone else who goes too near the [Holy Place] will be executed.

30. Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us.

Test yourselves and your friends!

(The answer key is available at the link - http://www.alternet.org/30-most-violent-exhortations-bible-torah-and-quran?paging=off¤t_page=1)

[Anonymous]

So, OP, are you an anti-semite or an islamophobe? I can't really tell which it is. Obviously, though, your link only gives 1 quote from Jesus and that one's a stretch, so you can't be entirely anti-religion. If you're Christian, then I'm officially embarrassed to have you claim to share my faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, OP, are you an anti-semite or an islamophobe? I can't really tell which it is. Obviously, though, your link only gives 1 quote from Jesus and that one's a stretch, so you can't be entirely anti-religion. If you're Christian, then I'm officially embarrassed to have you claim to share my faith.

According to the answer key, 15 of the items come from the Bible. While only one was allegedly said by Jesus (and I'll admit it's somewhat twisted by the article), there are a lot of Christians who consider both the OT and the NT as part of their religious text.

If you only subscribe to the NT, which is much more peaceful and based on love, good for you, but many who claim to be Christians cite to the OT as part of their belief structure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, OP, are you an anti-semite or an islamophobe? I can't really tell which it is. Obviously, though, your link only gives 1 quote from Jesus and that one's a stretch, so you can't be entirely anti-religion. If you're Christian, then I'm officially embarrassed to have you claim to share my faith.

According to the answer key, 15 of the items come from the Bible. While only one was allegedly said by Jesus (and I'll admit it's somewhat twisted by the article), there are a lot of Christians who consider both the OT and the NT as part of their religious text.

If you only subscribe to the NT, which is much more peaceful and based on love, good for you, but many who claim to be Christians cite to the OT as part of their belief structure.

especially the anti-gay part.

There are also many gay-friendly Christians, who consider much of the OT to be stories and fables, but still believe the part about it prophesizing the arrival of the Messiah.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't really matter. Practically speaking, kind people focus on the kind tenants of religion. Nasty people focus on the bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't really matter. Practically speaking, kind people focus on the kind tenants of religion. Nasty people focus on the bad.

and many people focus of kindness or nastiness without religion.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for being tangential, but I say let him who says "Let he ..." learn some grammar. Either "He who is without sin, let him ..." or "Let him who is without sin ..." is correct, but I have no idea why their bastard offspring "Let he who is without sin ..." is so popular. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the reason(s)?

Note: perhaps this should be a separate thread, but I would not know whether to put it in Religion or Off Topic. Maybe we need a thread called Nit Picking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for being tangential, but I say let him who says "Let he ..." learn some grammar. Either "He who is without sin, let him ..." or "Let him who is without sin ..." is correct, but I have no idea why their bastard offspring "Let he who is without sin ..." is so popular. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the reason(s)?

Note: perhaps this should be a separate thread, but I would not know whether to put it in Religion or Off Topic. Maybe we need a thread called Nit Picking.

Fellow nitpicker--excellent post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't really matter. Practically speaking, kind people focus on the kind tenants of religion. Nasty people focus on the bad.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for being tangential, but I say let him who says "Let he ..." learn some grammar. Either "He who is without sin, let him ..." or "Let him who is without sin ..." is correct, but I have no idea why their bastard offspring "Let he who is without sin ..." is so popular. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the reason(s)?

Note: perhaps this should be a separate thread, but I would not know whether to put it in Religion or Off Topic. Maybe we need a thread called Nit Picking.

Fellow nitpicker--excellent post.

Another fellow nitpicker. I thought this might be King James Version with some anachronistic language from the 1600s - but no. Here's King James: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." In fact, when I googled "let he who is without sin" I got a bunch of returns for "let him who is without sin."

I dug some more and found the obvious source. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, season 5/episode 7, is called "Let He Who is Without Sin...."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry for being tangential, but I say let him who says "Let he ..." learn some grammar. Either "He who is without sin, let him ..." or "Let him who is without sin ..." is correct, but I have no idea why their bastard offspring "Let he who is without sin ..." is so popular. Does anyone have a suggestion as to the reason(s)?

Note: perhaps this should be a separate thread, but I would not know whether to put it in Religion or Off Topic. Maybe we need a thread called Nit Picking.

Fellow nitpicker--excellent post.

Another fellow nitpicker. I thought this might be King James Version with some anachronistic language from the 1600s - but no. Here's King James: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." In fact, when I googled "let he who is without sin" I got a bunch of returns for "let him who is without sin."

I dug some more and found the obvious source. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, season 5/episode 7, is called "Let He Who is Without Sin...."

LOL--the same series that brought us "to boldly go...."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article on AlterNet (http://www.alternet.org/30-most-violent-exhortations-bible-torah-and-quran?paging=off¤t_page=1) testing whether people can identify the violent passages from different religious texts.

The following 30 violent exhortations are drawn from Jewish, Christian and Muslim scriptures. The generic word "God" is used for all deity names, and names of places or people have been replaced with generic terms. How well do you know your Torah, Bible or Quran and Hadith? Can you tell which is which? Give it a try and then check the key at the bottom.

1. Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the [holy man] who represents God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged.

2. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.

3. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am God.

4. Fight them until there is no more [disbelief or worshipping of other gods] and worship is for God alone.

5. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

6. Whoso fighteth in the way of God, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

7. Make ready to slaughter [the infidel’s] sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

8. [God’s messenger]... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The [holy man] replied, "They [women and children] are from them [unbelievers]."

9. Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.”

10. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

11. Keep [my holiday], for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die.

12. The punishment of those who wage war against God and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.

13. If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.

14. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land...

15. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

16. I shall terrorize the [heathens]. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them, because they oppose God and his apostle.

17. A [holy man’s] daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.

18. So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them.

19. Everyone who would not seek God was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

20. And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.

21. But if [a girl wasn't a virgin on her wedding night] and evidence of the girl's virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against God’s people by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.

22. The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say, "O [believer]! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

23. If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.

24. God’s Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but God."

25. Cursed be he who does God’s work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.

26. God said, "A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. [Prophet], you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But God desires killing them to manifest the religion."

27. Anyone who blasphemes God’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of [believers].

28. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) [your religion]; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them [a tax]. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek God's help and fight them.

29. Anyone else who goes too near the [Holy Place] will be executed.

30. Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us.

Test yourselves and your friends!

(The answer key is available at the link - http://www.alternet.org/30-most-violent-exhortations-bible-torah-and-quran?paging=off¤t_page=1)

Also relevant is who considers these quotes from a historical book we no longer follow to the letter, and who believes we must act on these statements in 2014.

[Anonymous]

And who considers these God's word versus divinely-inspired vs. maybe there's some metaphors in there somewhere vs. stories that were relevant in their own context but not in 2014.