Combined Bachelors and Med School admission

[Anonymous]

Thoughts on programs that guarantee admission to Med School following Bachelors (Pitt, Case Western, St. Bonaventure/GW Med, Villanova/Drexel Med, Penn State/Jefferson Med)?

It would seem to be quite an advantage to know Med School admission was guaranteed, without having to study for and take the MCAT or spend time and money applying to multiple Med schools.

Is there a downside? Other than the difficulty of getting into the program?

[Anonymous]

There are a few possible downsides:
1) most 18 year olds don't have any real clue about whether they are interested in or have aptitude for medicine, with possible exceptions of those with medical parents. Committing that early sometimes backfires, on the other hand can always pull out of the MD part not the right career pathway anymore as the student progresses through the bachelors part. Would be interested to hear what % of students end up not going to med school

2) These are not exactly the top US medical schools, so the reason they do this in the first place is to try and poach top students early who will bring up their pass rate/scores on part 1 of the medical boards, and get into better residency programs than their average graduates. Of the list, I think only Pitt is even top 50. On the one hand, med school in the US is pretty similar everywhere, it is trade school, and the education will be quite similar everywhere. Experience is much more individual depending on what hospitals the student happens to rotate at and which docs they happen to work with. For getting into most residency programs in internal medicine, pediatrics, pathology, general surgery it really doesn't matter what med school the applicant went to if they have good scores and good grades/comments on their rotations. But for the hyper competitive residencies in the high paid/low stress specialities (dermatology, optho, radiology, rad oncology, anesthesia-not low stress but set hours and high pay) it does matter what med school one attended and may be ruling out those subspecialties by taking a spot in one of these programs.

3) These are not research-heavy programs (except Pitt) so no chance for a funded MD/PhD spot (MSTP) or a real research track

[Anonymous]

You will be required to maintain certain GPA to stay in the program. Some (or many) of the programs are "one-and-out" meaning one bad semester below certain GPA and you are cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a few possible downsides:
1) most 18 year olds don't have any real clue about whether they are interested in or have aptitude for medicine, with possible exceptions of those with medical parents. Committing that early sometimes backfires, on the other hand can always pull out of the MD part not the right career pathway anymore as the student progresses through the bachelors part. Would be interested to hear what % of students end up not going to med school

2) These are not exactly the top US medical schools, so the reason they do this in the first place is to try and poach top students early who will bring up their pass rate/scores on part 1 of the medical boards, and get into better residency programs than their average graduates. Of the list, I think only Pitt is even top 50. On the one hand, med school in the US is pretty similar everywhere, it is trade school, and the education will be quite similar everywhere. Experience is much more individual depending on what hospitals the student happens to rotate at and which docs they happen to work with. For getting into most residency programs in internal medicine, pediatrics, pathology, general surgery it really doesn't matter what med school the applicant went to if they have good scores and good grades/comments on their rotations. But for the hyper competitive residencies in the high paid/low stress specialities (dermatology, optho, radiology, rad oncology, anesthesia-not low stress but set hours and high pay) it does matter what med school one attended and may be ruling out those subspecialties by taking a spot in one of these programs.

3) These are not research-heavy programs (except Pitt) so no chance for a funded MD/PhD spot (MSTP) or a real research track

Wrong about so many things. Case Western is--or nearly always has been--a top 25 medical school, to take one example.

[Anonymous]

Northwestern has a program like this (HPME, they called it). They allowed kids to take time off between undergrad and med school if they want.

[Anonymous]

Brown University also has a combined program.

[Anonymous]

Current list Pitt #6, Case #29, rest not in top 50 (this is by NIH funding, which is the metric most medical schools use, which of course has little to do with the quality of education of the students, but is the relevant ranking for prestige in terms of graduates)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current list Pitt #6, Case #29, rest not in top 50 (this is by NIH funding, which is the metric most medical schools use, which of course has little to do with the quality of education of the students, but is the relevant ranking for prestige in terms of graduates)

Really? I thought everyone goes by US News. Conededly, though, rankings aren't as important for med school. A dr is a dr. By contrast, lawyers are a dime a dozen, so top 15 is life determining.

[Anonymous]

I got accepted into one of these programs when I was 18- uc riverside and then ucla med. I had no clue what I was doing or what I wanted to do- med school sounded like a decent idea. Ultimately I didn't go because it was riverside which at the time was not a great school at all. I had gotten into much better ucs but I was only looking at riverside because of this program. If you didn't maintain a certain gap they kick you out of that program. You stay at riverside but you don't get the admission to ucla med. I wasn't sure if I could keep up and didn't want to risk a bs from riverside vs a better school. I went to a higher ranked uc and don't regret it.

[Anonymous]

What about the St. Bonaventure/George Washington program? It seems to me that GW is a better med school than St. Bonaventure is an undergrad school. So I see how having the program might attract students to St. Bonaventure who would otherwise go somewhere else for undergrad, but what is in it for GW? Same question for the other combined programs where the undergrad and med school are completely separate institutions.

[Anonymous]

Almost everyone I know that did the PSU/Jeff 6 year program (i dunnno if it is still 6 or if they changed it to 7) excelled and have completed impressive residencies and fellowships.

[Anonymous]

Downstate Medical in NY - 2 classmates did it. They have done well.

I thought Washington University had a program like this as well? Is their med school still in the top 10?

[Anonymous]

I've heard doctors say over and over that it really doesn't matter where you go to med school. Other than Harvard, Yale or Stanford does it really matter?

[Anonymous]

I had 2 relatives do this: Northwestern and URochester. It worked out great for both. In one case, it allowed them to double-major in another subject (in addition to something science-y) bc they didn't have to stress about getting into med school. Both of them went to top residencies and competitive specialties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've heard doctors say over and over that it really doesn't matter where you go to med school. Other than Harvard, Yale or Stanford does it really matter?

no it doesn't. - the docs that say this are right.

residency (and subsequent fellowships) are what define your career.