New Budget Recommendations -- eliminate AAP busing and centers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^If you want to make snarky comment about my perception of the needs of my "snowflakes," who you've never met, I might argue that your GE kid is fine with a mediocre teacher who wants AAP but never makes the cut. I have never understood, why GE parents feel entitled to insult, put down and name call AAP ES students (who are aged 8-12, FFS, not adults), while AAP parents have to walk on eggshells to make sure they never suggest that GE kids just aren't that exceptional.

Not the PP to whom you're responding, but you've got to be kidding. You see it all the time on these boards - AAP parents insisting their kids are "exceptional" and that said kids "need" special teachers, special centers, and special "peers". They argue that GE kids don't need the option to switch schools, as their kids have, because, well, they're just not as exceptional! What could they possibly need that they don't get at the base school, they ask? Meanwhile, it's perfectly fine with these parents to fully acknowledge their kids are getting a "superior" education than the GE kids - and that's just fine with them, because their kid is in AAP. If the shoe were on the other foot, however, and their snowflakes were getting the short end of the stick, you can bet we'd never hear the end of it.

So, quite honestly, I don't see anyone "walking on eggshells" to avoid offending GE kids or parents.

First, my arguing that my child should have access to a special program is my own perception of what my child needs. It in no way insults or puts down your kid. Honestly, I'm not in a position to say what is best for your kid or kids. AAP parents are advocating for what they believe their child needs. I do not see them belittling GE kids. But parents of GE kids on this board seem to have no problem with taking a swing at ES AAP students (not just parents or the AAP process, but the ES aged kids)-- with all of the your kids is not as bright as you think and special snowflake in a snow globe crap. Given the age of the kids we're talking about, insulting the children and calling them names crosses a line in my book.

Second, yes, I get that You think it's unfair that some AAP kids have school choice and your DC does not (base school Center kids have no choice). But I have never seen a GE parent articulate how school choice for GE would work. Do you want a better magnet system? Charters? For you child to be able to choose between the 2 schools closest to your house? Everyone has a right to got to immersion (not lottery)? If Centers are here to stay and AAP kids will keep havIng school choice, what choice do you want from FCPS to make it seem fair for your kid?

I think that if FCPS is going to continue allowing AAP kids to choose between LLIV at their base school and a center program (which are the same things, regardless of how some parents claim they're not), then yes, Gen Ed kids should be allowed to at least choose between the two schools closest to their homes, for whatever reason they or their parents deem necessary. There are often reasons why a school switch is a good idea - social problems, the need for a fresh start with a new peer group, etc. In other words, if AAP kids are given the choice of the same program, but at different schools, then Gen Ed kids should be given the same type of choice. And I don't see how this affects AAP kids in any way - giving all kids the same opportunities and choices. Just as you claim one school may be a better fit for your child, the same could be said about my child - for a variety of different reasons.

As for "name-calling," I don't see using the term snowflake as a slam on the kids - it refers to how their parents perceive them more than anything. Parents who insist on special treatment for their kids who don't require it are treating them like fragile snowflakes and unfortunately, this kind of overbearing parental personality type is fair game for criticism.

There are ways to move to a different ES if a child is having issues at his/her base school.

How?

http://www.fcps.edu/dss/osp/StudentRegistration/student-transfer/

Number 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For everyone arguing that gifted kids don't have federally protected special need-- they're about to, under the new education bill. It's a small start (teacher education), but it's a start: http://www.nagc.org/blog/good-day-gifted-education-advocates

Becareful for what you wish. Having a SN designation is not a walk in the park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone arguing that gifted kids don't have federally protected special need-- they're about to, under the new education bill. It's a small start (teacher education), but it's a start: http://www.nagc.org/blog/good-day-gifted-education-advocates

Becareful for what you wish. Having a SN designation is not a walk in the park.

May not make any difference in a system like FCPS, which already does a lot. If it encourages the AAP hating cranks on this board to develop new material, though, I'll welcome it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone arguing that gifted kids don't have federally protected special need-- they're about to, under the new education bill. It's a small start (teacher education), but it's a start: http://www.nagc.org/blog/good-day-gifted-education-advocates

Becareful for what you wish. Having a SN designation is not a walk in the park.

May not make any difference in a system like FCPS, which already does a lot. If it encourages the AAP hating cranks on this board to develop new material, though, I'll welcome it.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone arguing that gifted kids don't have federally protected special need-- they're about to, under the new education bill. It's a small start (teacher education), but it's a start: http://www.nagc.org/blog/good-day-gifted-education-advocates

Becareful for what you wish. Having a SN designation is not a walk in the park.

May not make any difference in a system like FCPS, which already does a lot. If it encourages the AAP hating cranks on this board to develop new material, though, I'll welcome it.

If they make it a SN then goodbye centers. They would have to abide by LRE and separate programs are for severe needs that cannot be accommodated in a general ed classroom, run of the mill GT would not need a separate program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone arguing that gifted kids don't have federally protected special need-- they're about to, under the new education bill. It's a small start (teacher education), but it's a start: http://www.nagc.org/blog/good-day-gifted-education-advocates

Becareful for what you wish. Having a SN designation is not a walk in the park.

May not make any difference in a system like FCPS, which already does a lot. If it encourages the AAP hating cranks on this board to develop new material, though, I'll welcome it.

If they make it a SN then goodbye centers. They would have to abide by LRE and separate programs are for severe needs that cannot be accommodated in a general ed classroom, run of the mill GT would not need a separate program.

Welcome news for the 2E kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone arguing that gifted kids don't have federally protected special need-- they're about to, under the new education bill. It's a small start (teacher education), but it's a start: http://www.nagc.org/blog/good-day-gifted-education-advocates

Becareful for what you wish. Having a SN designation is not a walk in the park.

May not make any difference in a system like FCPS, which already does a lot. If it encourages the AAP hating cranks on this board to develop new material, though, I'll welcome it.

If they make it a SN then goodbye centers. They would have to abide by LRE and separate programs are for severe needs that cannot be accommodated in a general ed classroom, run of the mill GT would not need a separate program.

If you read the article, it has to do with teacher training and developing GT programs-- so basically the opposite of what you are saying. But still an acknowledgement of what parents of highly gifted kids have been saying all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For everyone arguing that gifted kids don't have federally protected special need-- they're about to, under the new education bill. It's a small start (teacher education), but it's a start: http://www.nagc.org/blog/good-day-gifted-education-advocates

Becareful for what you wish. Having a SN designation is not a walk in the park.

May not make any difference in a system like FCPS, which already does a lot. If it encourages the AAP hating cranks on this board to develop new material, though, I'll welcome it.

If they make it a SN then goodbye centers. They would have to abide by LRE and separate programs are for severe needs that cannot be accommodated in a general ed classroom, run of the mill GT would not need a separate program.

If you read the article, it has to do with teacher training and developing GT programs-- so basically the opposite of what you are saying. But still an acknowledgement of what parents of highly gifted kids have been saying all along.

I understand what the article says, the PP indicated that there was a push to make gifted a federally protected special need. It was to that comment that I made mine. If gifted becomes a federally protected special need under IDEA and NCLB or whatever they call the next bill, it will have to abide by the same rules as other federally protected special needs and that does include LRE. I would also think that the bar would be set higher than most parents, whose children are already in G&T/AAP type programs, would want. If it is done similarly to other federally protected special needs the bar for first tier, push in services would start at the 2nd sigma- where currently FCPS sets the bar for a separate stand alone program. Separate stand alone programs, in special needs, are for the most severely impacted- you would have to get closer to the 3rd sigma from the median for those. There are not enough students, even the vaunted FCPS, for more than one- possibly two programs in the county. There are several special needs programs set up like this that would provide a framework.

[Anonymous]

Centers were a stupid idea, glad they will be killed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^If you want to make snarky comment about my perception of the needs of my "snowflakes," who you've never met, I might argue that your GE kid is fine with a mediocre teacher who wants AAP but never makes the cut. I have never understood, why GE parents feel entitled to insult, put down and name call AAP ES students (who are aged 8-12, FFS, not adults), while AAP parents have to walk on eggshells to make sure they never suggest that GE kids just aren't that exceptional.

Not the PP to whom you're responding, but you've got to be kidding. You see it all the time on these boards - AAP parents insisting their kids are "exceptional" and that said kids "need" special teachers, special centers, and special "peers". They argue that GE kids don't need the option to switch schools, as their kids have, because, well, they're just not as exceptional! What could they possibly need that they don't get at the base school, they ask? Meanwhile, it's perfectly fine with these parents to fully acknowledge their kids are getting a "superior" education than the GE kids - and that's just fine with them, because their kid is in AAP. If the shoe were on the other foot, however, and their snowflakes were getting the short end of the stick, you can bet we'd never hear the end of it.

So, quite honestly, I don't see anyone "walking on eggshells" to avoid offending GE kids or parents.

First, my arguing that my child should have access to a special program is my own perception of what my child needs. It in no way insults or puts down your kid. Honestly, I'm not in a position to say what is best for your kid or kids. AAP parents are advocating for what they believe their child needs. I do not see them belittling GE kids. But parents of GE kids on this board seem to have no problem with taking a swing at ES AAP students (not just parents or the AAP process, but the ES aged kids)-- with all of the your kids is not as bright as you think and special snowflake in a snow globe crap. Given the age of the kids we're talking about, insulting the children and calling them names crosses a line in my book.

Second, yes, I get that You think it's unfair that some AAP kids have school choice and your DC does not (base school Center kids have no choice). But I have never seen a GE parent articulate how school choice for GE would work. Do you want a better magnet system? Charters? For you child to be able to choose between the 2 schools closest to your house? Everyone has a right to got to immersion (not lottery)? If Centers are here to stay and AAP kids will keep havIng school choice, what choice do you want from FCPS to make it seem fair for your kid?

NP here. Problem is AAP is too many parents' perceptions of what their kid needs. If AAP disappeared tomorrow, my guess is all but a very tiny amount of kids would be just fine. My oldest was in the program, but had it not existed, his intellectual peers would have stayed at his base school instead of all of them being bused across town.

Secondly, like many parents on here who are critical of AAP in its current form, I also had kids in Gen Ed. Kids, btw, who were received great educations in their base schools and have gone on to succeed as honor students in high school. The problem with parents who talk about how their kids NEED AAP, is quite frankly, that these parents haven't yet seen the rest of the movie. They don't see how these kids who are told they are special from age 7 fare in high school and beyond. They refuse to even acknowledge the inequity of a program that might find 1/3 of kids in affluent areas "gifted," while failing to recognize many equally bright kids from lower SES areas who haven't been spoon fed enrichment from birth and don't have parents working 24-7 to game their way into AAP.

I bow at your feet. Thank you for these wise and sensible words. +100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are ways to move to a different ES if a child is having issues at his/her base school.

How?

Pupil placement.

http://www.fcps.edu/dss/osp/StudentRegistration/student-transfer/

Medical, emotional, or social adjustment —The student demonstrates exceptional hardship for reasons of medical, emotional, or social adjustment. Independent, detailed documentation substantiating the circumstances (e.g., from physicians, psychologists, social workers, or counselors) is required and must be attached to the student transfer application.

Riiiight... so a child who is simply unhappy due to not having a group of friends (or a PEER GROUP, to borrow from overused AAP parlance), isn't free to choose another school unless they submit to the bolded, above. But a child who qualifies for AAP is perfectly within his/her rights to choose the center school in order to find their PEER GROUP.

Nope, not hypocritical at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are ways to move to a different ES if a child is having issues at his/her base school.

How?

Pupil placement.

http://www.fcps.edu/dss/osp/StudentRegistration/student-transfer/

Medical, emotional, or social adjustment —The student demonstrates exceptional hardship for reasons of medical, emotional, or social adjustment. Independent, detailed documentation substantiating the circumstances (e.g., from physicians, psychologists, social workers, or counselors) is required and must be attached to the student transfer application.

Riiiight... so a child who is simply unhappy due to not having a group of friends (or a PEER GROUP, to borrow from overused AAP parlance), isn't free to choose another school unless they submit to the bolded, above. But a child who qualifies for AAP is perfectly within his/her rights to choose the center school in order to find their PEER GROUP.

Nope, not hypocritical at all.

AAP students do not "choose another school" but go to the ASSIGNED Center school.

My kids were not "simply unhappy" BTW -- they had 504 Plans which were pretty much disregarded at the base school. The Center school teachers and staff had more experience working with kids like mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^If you want to make snarky comment about my perception of the needs of my "snowflakes," who you've never met, I might argue that your GE kid is fine with a mediocre teacher who wants AAP but never makes the cut. I have never understood, why GE parents feel entitled to insult, put down and name call AAP ES students (who are aged 8-12, FFS, not adults), while AAP parents have to walk on eggshells to make sure they never suggest that GE kids just aren't that exceptional.

Not the PP to whom you're responding, but you've got to be kidding. You see it all the time on these boards - AAP parents insisting their kids are "exceptional" and that said kids "need" special teachers, special centers, and special "peers". They argue that GE kids don't need the option to switch schools, as their kids have, because, well, they're just not as exceptional! What could they possibly need that they don't get at the base school, they ask? Meanwhile, it's perfectly fine with these parents to fully acknowledge their kids are getting a "superior" education than the GE kids - and that's just fine with them, because their kid is in AAP. If the shoe were on the other foot, however, and their snowflakes were getting the short end of the stick, you can bet we'd never hear the end of it.

So, quite honestly, I don't see anyone "walking on eggshells" to avoid offending GE kids or parents.

First, my arguing that my child should have access to a special program is my own perception of what my child needs. It in no way insults or puts down your kid. Honestly, I'm not in a position to say what is best for your kid or kids. AAP parents are advocating for what they believe their child needs. I do not see them belittling GE kids. But parents of GE kids on this board seem to have no problem with taking a swing at ES AAP students (not just parents or the AAP process, but the ES aged kids)-- with all of the your kids is not as bright as you think and special snowflake in a snow globe crap. Given the age of the kids we're talking about, insulting the children and calling them names crosses a line in my book.

Second, yes, I get that You think it's unfair that some AAP kids have school choice and your DC does not (base school Center kids have no choice). But I have never seen a GE parent articulate how school choice for GE would work. Do you want a better magnet system? Charters? For you child to be able to choose between the 2 schools closest to your house? Everyone has a right to got to immersion (not lottery)? If Centers are here to stay and AAP kids will keep havIng school choice, what choice do you want from FCPS to make it seem fair for your kid?

I think that if FCPS is going to continue allowing AAP kids to choose between LLIV at their base school and a center program (which are the same things, regardless of how some parents claim they're not), then yes, Gen Ed kids should be allowed to at least choose between the two schools closest to their homes, for whatever reason they or their parents deem necessary. There are often reasons why a school switch is a good idea - social problems, the need for a fresh start with a new peer group, etc. In other words, if AAP kids are given the choice of the same program, but at different schools, then Gen Ed kids should be given the same type of choice. And I don't see how this affects AAP kids in any way - giving all kids the same opportunities and choices. Just as you claim one school may be a better fit for your child, the same could be said about my child - for a variety of different reasons.
I
As for "name-calling," I don't see using the term snowflake as a slam on the kids - it refers to how their parents perceive them more than anything. Parents who insist on special treatment for their kids who don't require it are treating them like fragile snowflakes and unfortunately, this kind of overbearing parental personality type is fair game for criticism.

There are ways to move to a different ES if a child is having issues at his/her base school.

+1. Social emotional adjustment is one reason stated for allowing ES students to transfer. Childcare is another. As PP pointed out, non-AAP kids can follow AAP kids to a Center to keep siblings together. I wonder how many parents who say their kids are being damaged by being in a Center school have made a formal request on this basis for transfer to the nearest non-AAP school? These schools should be less crowded and often open to transfer. How many GE parents really want their kids to transfer-- in 3rd grade, like AAP kids, to the next nearest school? Since my kid's bus goes by the closest base school to pick up SACC kids, I imagine you could even get busing.

If you really want the right to transfer you kid to the nearest ES open for transfer, and you feel the transfer guideline are not liberal enough, why don't you advocate for this change to make things "fair," rather than taking away the Center option.? I'd support this (although I think most GE parents would not actually move a kid in 3rd grade for reasons outside the current FCPS transfer guidelines, which are pretty liberal). I think most AAP parents would.

I have a GE child who has to attend a center (base school). I wouldn't have hesitated for one second to transfer him to the nearest non-center elementary school in the 3rd grade. When I looked into it, however, I was told my child would have to submit to a battery of psychological testing to somehow "prove" he was being harmed by attending the center school (where GE children in grades 3-5 are the minority). He was, and is, not happy at this school because there are so few GE students and so many AAP. He doesn't have any psychological issues, however! He would have simply been a lot happier at a regular base school, without the overwhelming presence of, and focus on, AAP kids.

Why on earth should I put my child through psychological testing in order for him to qualify for a school transfer, when AAP kids are able to transfer to the nearest center if they or their parents think it would be a better fit (read: letting the child find their "peer group")? They don't have to prove "psychological damage" or "childcare hardship" or any other such nonsense. There is nothing wrong with my child - he would simply like to attend a school in which being in a "regular" class is not perceived as being in the "inferior" class.

[Anonymous]

Once again, blanket statements about FCPS are difficult as there are many Center schools without the environment received by the PP.

[Anonymous]

^^described -- not received

Dang autocorrect