Algebra in 6th grade - new selection process?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

Hilllllrarious! This is idiocy on a whole another level.

No college cares about FCPS "advanced diploma". It is just not a thing for colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The math office wants to water down/eliminate advanced math at the elementary level. Having the same pacing in gen Ed and advanced (“Advanced for all”) in 3rd and 4th is a stepping stone to this.

With the new standards, the percentage of 3rd grade kids in advanced math scoring pass advanced dropped significantly this spring. I expect the same to happen with 4th this year. Basically it’s suppressing the ceiling— one reason why the requirements to double accelerate have been SO insane until now. They haven’t wanted to exacerbate the gap between the gen Ed and advanced math students.

Algebra in 6th from Reid had dropped a bomb into this. I’m not a proponent of it being this widespread— half of the sixth advanced kids at my school qualified when maybe a fifth of them should have— but it’s encouraging that they aren’t going to be completely abandoning advanced math.

I think the haphazard rollout and overly generous selection process is intentional on the part of the math office. I think they want this to be a disaster so they can go back to the original plan.

Our school said not everyone selected should take it.

Is the school willing to talk to parents about individual kids so parents can make an informed decision?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

I don't think that's true, if you take four post-Algebra math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

I don't think that's true, if you take four post-Algebra math classes.

It’s clearly stated on the expunge form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

Hilllllrarious! This is idiocy on a whole another level.

No college cares about FCPS "advanced diploma". It is just not a thing for colleges.

I love these “colleges don’t care” people. They use all these metrics to rank an application. Maybe some colleges don’t but I’m pretty certain that the schools these advanced students are applying to will absolutely care. They are bombarded with more applications than they can handle and will use any low hanging fruit type metric to push an application aside, that includes a standard diploma which doesn’t translate to the level of rigor they want to see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

Colleges could care less about the advanced degree. There are plenty of kids with great academics who don't earn it because of the ridiculous requirement to take an elective sequence and not counting foreign language as an allowable elective.

I would not expunge a grade unless I thought my kid should retake the class. If I am expunging a grade that signals that I don't think that my kid learned what they needed to learn in order to move on to the next grade. We are ok with B's if our kid is learning and working hard, he doesn't need all A's.

I would be asking my kids teacher from 5th grade about what class they think my kid should be in and follow that guidance. I don't think it would help my kid to take a class 3 years early with the back up plan being that they can retake the class. That is going to be a direct hit on my kids confidence about their ability, even if taking the class in 7th grade is 2 years early. My 11 year old is not likely to understand that.

I would accept the offer if my child had been involved in math enrichment for several years and I know that my child has been exposed to the concepts already.

I would accept the offer if my child was willing to participate in a program like RSM's Algebra so that they have additional time to learn the material and have someone who is comfortable teaching the material, teaching them.

I would not accept the offer otherwise. I don't want to sink my kid's confidence by moving them from the class into a different class or making them repeat the class.

There is no good reason for most kids to be taking A1H in 6th grade. They are either going to end up in advanced math classes that most colleges would prefer they take at college or they are going to drop off the track and take AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, and AP Stats because they are not that into math. It feels like an unnecesary rush ahead in math.

I do think that there are kids who are ready for A1H in 6th grade. I do think there needs to be a path for those kids to take the class. I don't think that 1/2 the kids in AAP should be taking the class, not because they are not capable but because most of them don't need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

Colleges could care less about the advanced degree. There are plenty of kids with great academics who don't earn it because of the ridiculous requirement to take an elective sequence and not counting foreign language as an allowable elective.

I would not expunge a grade unless I thought my kid should retake the class. If I am expunging a grade that signals that I don't think that my kid learned what they needed to learn in order to move on to the next grade. We are ok with B's if our kid is learning and working hard, he doesn't need all A's.

I would be asking my kids teacher from 5th grade about what class they think my kid should be in and follow that guidance. I don't think it would help my kid to take a class 3 years early with the back up plan being that they can retake the class. That is going to be a direct hit on my kids confidence about their ability, even if taking the class in 7th grade is 2 years early. My 11 year old is not likely to understand that.

I would accept the offer if my child had been involved in math enrichment for several years and I know that my child has been exposed to the concepts already.

I would accept the offer if my child was willing to participate in a program like RSM's Algebra so that they have additional time to learn the material and have someone who is comfortable teaching the material, teaching them.

I would not accept the offer otherwise. I don't want to sink my kid's confidence by moving them from the class into a different class or making them repeat the class.

There is no good reason for most kids to be taking A1H in 6th grade. They are either going to end up in advanced math classes that most colleges would prefer they take at college or they are going to drop off the track and take AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, and AP Stats because they are not that into math. It feels like an unnecesary rush ahead in math.

I do think that there are kids who are ready for A1H in 6th grade. I do think there needs to be a path for those kids to take the class. I don't think that 1/2 the kids in AAP should be taking the class, not because they are not capable but because most of them don't need it.

I agree with everything you said except the part about the advanced diploma. I think people are projecting their personal opinion about its importance, but it’s not reality otherwise why would it exist.

[Anonymous]

It's a moot point. You can get an advanced diploma if you expunge and don't retake Algebra I. What you can't do is expunge both Algebra I and Geometry. This is pretty clearly stated in the FCPS expunge form as well as the VA advanced diploma requirements.


"For example, if a student in 7th grade
expunges an Algebra 1 Honors course and in 8th grade expunges a Geometry Honors course, the student will no longer be eligible for an Advanced Studies Diploma unless one of the courses is repeated."
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/forms/is104.pdf

VA requirements state that the kid needs to check 3 different boxes for math, where the boxes are: Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and post-Algebra II math. So, the kid could expunge either algebra I or Geometry but not both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FYI, since this seems to be misunderstood on this thread: when you expunge a middle school grade, you do not have to retake the course. You may choose to, but you don’t have to.

So you get the credit (if you pass) but you don't get to see the grade--is this what you mean? Because you'd need the credit from the class, so just want to make sure we understand this.

Colleges will know that means it wasn’t a good grade

Colleges are not going to care about any grades from middle school. Heck, a lot of colleges discount grades from 9th grade when they recompute GPAs.

The bigger issue is that if the grade is poor enough to expunge, the kid will struggle in Algebra II or pre-calc. I'm not sure that I would place a child in FCPS 6th grade Algebra without also having the kid take Algebra through RSM or AoPS.

I agree with your second part, but I know for fact the colleges care. It is absolutely a red flag to not have a grade for a math class. They look very closely at course selection, grades for all high school courses. Expunge at your own risk.

Sorry, you’re wrong. In many places (like where I live in NJ), middle school courses/grades are not on the HS transcript at all, even if they are traditionally high-school courses. My kid’s transcript does not list algebra, geometry, or Latin I.

I think you’re probably wrong about this, and likely missed the section where those courses are listed (ie:not with the HS coursework), but this a thread about a pilot program in our FCPS schools. Here in FCPS, the high school transcripts absolutely list the high school level courses taken prior to HS — they’re listed in a separate section, but it’s there and calculated into gpa.

To add to this discussion: most parents here are focused on Virginia schools, where admissions teams look closely at courses and grades—even those taken at the middle school level. [What New Jersey does isn’t really relevant to us.]

To the parent of the 12th grader who suggested it won’t matter: I agree that colleges recalculate GPAs using their own methods and always consider an unweighted GPA. But if you expunge a grade from the transcript, you also lose the potential benefit of that grade being factored into the GPA. To say it “totally won’t matter” isn’t accurate. At schools like UVA and Virginia Tech, it’s hard to imagine it won’t matter, since they consistently emphasize that they review the courses taken, the rigor of those courses, and the grades earned.

Why would a person expunge a grade if it would benefit them to have it factored into their GPA? You expunge a grade because you don’t want it in your GPA.

I am in NJ now but my kids were in FCPS before (one through 10th grade) and I’m familiar with AAP math and the FCPS high school transcript, as well as with college admissions. I mention NJ to explain that colleges’ first thought when they don’t see on the transcript a course taken in middle school is not “oh, the kid must have done poorly in that class.” They just as likely think it’s not on the HS transcript because it’s not a course taken in HS (since many places only include on the transcript courses actually taken in HS). Even if a college knows FCPS well enough to know the course should be on the transcript, I guarantee that they do not care about a grade for a course taken in sixth or seventh grade, especially if they have four or five other, more recent math grades to look at. If that kid gets As in AP Precal and AP Calc BC, a college absolutely will not care about what they got in Algebra I in middle school. And if they do poorly in AP Precal or AP Calc, a good grade in Algebra I is not going to save them.

Proceed at your own risk then. They will absolutely make note of it. You heard it here first

DP. It's cute that you think so. You're obviously an ES parent. .
So, in your world, a kid with very high grades across the board, including As in Calc and post-calc DE classes will have trouble getting into UVA or VT engineering due to a missing Algebra I grade from 6th grade? That's completely absurd, especially since there are any number of benign reasons that a kid might not have a grade recorded on their transcript for classes taken before high school.

One of the reasons many colleges omit 9th grade classes when they recompute an applicant's GPA is that kids mature a lot during 9th grade. The grades from later years are much more indicative of how well the kid will do in college and how solid their academic foundations are. This is doubly true for classes taken in *6th grade.*

There are *a lot* of reasons to be worried about this pilot, but kids expunging and having a "missing" Algebra I grade from 6th grade on their high school transcript is not really one of them. I have no idea why you're so obsessed with the "missing grade" issue. The real problem is that any kids who earn poor grades in 6th grade Algebra, as well as a good chunk of the kids who get As will have bad math foundations and will get poor grades in the later classes. Colleges will certainly care about the kid's grades in the pre-calc, AP Calc, and DE classes they take in high school.

You can’t receive an advanced diploma if you expunge a math grade and don’t retake the course. That would be an additional disadvantage.

Colleges could care less about the advanced degree. There are plenty of kids with great academics who don't earn it because of the ridiculous requirement to take an elective sequence and not counting foreign language as an allowable elective.

I would not expunge a grade unless I thought my kid should retake the class. If I am expunging a grade that signals that I don't think that my kid learned what they needed to learn in order to move on to the next grade. We are ok with B's if our kid is learning and working hard, he doesn't need all A's.

I would be asking my kids teacher from 5th grade about what class they think my kid should be in and follow that guidance. I don't think it would help my kid to take a class 3 years early with the back up plan being that they can retake the class. That is going to be a direct hit on my kids confidence about their ability, even if taking the class in 7th grade is 2 years early. My 11 year old is not likely to understand that.

I would accept the offer if my child had been involved in math enrichment for several years and I know that my child has been exposed to the concepts already.

I would accept the offer if my child was willing to participate in a program like RSM's Algebra so that they have additional time to learn the material and have someone who is comfortable teaching the material, teaching them.

I would not accept the offer otherwise. I don't want to sink my kid's confidence by moving them from the class into a different class or making them repeat the class.

There is no good reason for most kids to be taking A1H in 6th grade. They are either going to end up in advanced math classes that most colleges would prefer they take at college or they are going to drop off the track and take AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, and AP Stats because they are not that into math. It feels like an unnecesary rush ahead in math.

I do think that there are kids who are ready for A1H in 6th grade. I do think there needs to be a path for those kids to take the class. I don't think that 1/2 the kids in AAP should be taking the class, not because they are not capable but because most of them don't need it.

I agree with everything you said except the part about the advanced diploma. I think people are projecting their personal opinion about its importance, but it’s not reality otherwise why would it exist.

Colleges are making decisions before any diploma is awarded. They don't care if you complete the advanced diploma or the regular diploma or even the IB Diploma. All of that comes after you have been accepted. They are not going to rescind admission because you didn't earn the advanced diploma. They admitted you because you have completed certain specific courses and will complete specific courses as a senior. The advanced degree is a Commonwealth of Virginia thing and that is it.

The areas where many students might miss and end up with the standard degree are the Fine Arts requirement, the 2 sequential electives requirement, the completing a virtual course requirement, being trained in first aid, CPR, and AED training.

Do you really think colleges are going to pull a requirement because a student didn't take a virtual class or failed to learn CPR?

A kid applying for college with a humanities interest might only have 3 instead of 4 lab sciences.

I have no idea why there is an advanced diploma, it is kind of ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would any kid do algebra in 6th when they could just double up on geometry and algebra 2 in 8th if they are motivated to be three years ahead. That would be a smarter and more traditional way to go about it.

Because kids entering 6th grade don't even know geometry and algebra 2 exist, where they are on the timeline of math courses, nor the fact that you can double up?

[Anonymous]

FCPS math teacher:
You can expunge and still get the advanced diploma. You need 4 years of high school math. If you expunge algebra you must take 2 post-algebra 2 courses.

But the “advanced diploma” is a made up Virginia (not FCPS) thing. No one cares if you get the diploma, they care that there is advanced course work. If you are heading to a 4 year school you will check all the boxes for the advanced diploma by default and will only miss it for the silly elective requirement or whatever.

As a side note there have been a lot of rumors for the last year that the advanced diploma is going away anyway, so I wouldn’t use that to make a decision.

[Anonymous]

Fuel for discussion:

Our child is in a 6-8 MS, was selected for Algebra I, and has started the course.

The school has decided to make a Flexible Instruction Time (FIT) group just for these 6th-grade Algebra I students. All students have one period of FIT, and it is normally a mix of kids throughout the school with any random teacher. These kids have been moved to having FIT with one of the Algebra instructors. The goal is to help them with the pre-algebra knowledge they are not getting because of skipping advanced 6th Math.

This seems like a great response to the situation, but one that is not available to the 6th-grade classes in ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is algebra placement in 7th grade guaranteed if you decide to expunge the grade? If a kid gets an A- or Bs can we expunge? Are you allowed to expunge an A- and retake or is it discretionary?

Expunging an A- is insane. It Sends a terrible message to your kid, especially if they pass advanced the SOL, and you make them retake it.

[Anonymous]

We received an email today that our school is doing the pilot and my kid is selected.

Why they did not do this at once?