Anyone else educated by FCPS and sees the decline?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many years ago I started a thread on this site about a Washington Post article discussing FCPS’ future. I’ll try to find the thread later. The writer’s predictions weren’t wrong.

Not PP, but this 2014 talks about the strain a rising immigrant population had at that time put a strain on resources, pulling money away from more affluent schools, to provide resources to schools whose student bodies are comprised of families that are poor and often illiterate in their primary language.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-fairfax-county-kindergarten-classes-school-systems-future-comes-into-focus/2014/06/28/1ced10d2-f25e-11e3-914c-1fbd0614e2d4_story.html

"Grace Choi, a kindergarten language teacher at London Towne, said children from poor families often arrive for the first day of school not knowing the alphabet, a standard lesson in preschool. Many cannot differentiate animal words such as cat, lion and cheetah or food words such as potato, eggs and tomato."

"At Springfield’s Lynbrook Elementary, 502 out of the 637 students speak Spanish at home, school records show, and 89 percent of those Spanish-speaking children were born in the United States."

"In other schools . . . they can see the other students and want to make a difference in themselves," said Moran, 32, who came to the United States from Mexico 10 years ago. "In Hybla Valley, it's 90 percent Hispanic. What the problem is, I think, is the style of life is all the same."

PP. That's the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many years ago I started a thread on this site about a Washington Post article discussing FCPS’ future. I’ll try to find the thread later. The writer’s predictions weren’t wrong.

Not PP, but this 2014 talks about the strain a rising immigrant population had at that time put a strain on resources, pulling money away from more affluent schools, to provide resources to schools whose student bodies are comprised of families that are poor and often illiterate in their primary language.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-fairfax-county-kindergarten-classes-school-systems-future-comes-into-focus/2014/06/28/1ced10d2-f25e-11e3-914c-1fbd0614e2d4_story.html

"Grace Choi, a kindergarten language teacher at London Towne, said children from poor families often arrive for the first day of school not knowing the alphabet, a standard lesson in preschool. Many cannot differentiate animal words such as cat, lion and cheetah or food words such as potato, eggs and tomato."

"At Springfield’s Lynbrook Elementary, 502 out of the 637 students speak Spanish at home, school records show, and 89 percent of those Spanish-speaking children were born in the United States."

"In other schools . . . they can see the other students and want to make a difference in themselves," said Moran, 32, who came to the United States from Mexico 10 years ago. "In Hybla Valley, it's 90 percent Hispanic. What the problem is, I think, is the style of life is all the same."

DP. I can't even imagine being a teacher in these schools and trying to teach a classroom made up largely of non-English speakers. This is so unfair - for the teacher and for the other kids who are being shortchanged.

[Anonymous]

FCS only really cares about Madison, McLean, Langley, West Springfield, Oakton, Robinson, lake Braddock, and maybe Woodson and Fairfax. That’s pretty much it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many years ago I started a thread on this site about a Washington Post article discussing FCPS’ future. I’ll try to find the thread later. The writer’s predictions weren’t wrong.

Not PP, but this 2014 talks about the strain a rising immigrant population had at that time put a strain on resources, pulling money away from more affluent schools, to provide resources to schools whose student bodies are comprised of families that are poor and often illiterate in their primary language.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-fairfax-county-kindergarten-classes-school-systems-future-comes-into-focus/2014/06/28/1ced10d2-f25e-11e3-914c-1fbd0614e2d4_story.html

"Grace Choi, a kindergarten language teacher at London Towne, said children from poor families often arrive for the first day of school not knowing the alphabet, a standard lesson in preschool. Many cannot differentiate animal words such as cat, lion and cheetah or food words such as potato, eggs and tomato."

"At Springfield’s Lynbrook Elementary, 502 out of the 637 students speak Spanish at home, school records show, and 89 percent of those Spanish-speaking children were born in the United States."

"In other schools . . . they can see the other students and want to make a difference in themselves," said Moran, 32, who came to the United States from Mexico 10 years ago. "In Hybla Valley, it's 90 percent Hispanic. What the problem is, I think, is the style of life is all the same."

Not all kids enter K reading. Even at the posh schools.

FCPS should expand free preK.

[Anonymous]

Graduated from FCPA in the 80s, went elementary through high school. Kids in FCPS now.

FCPS students always did well back then because of the parents. My brother had a teacher who would sneak out to the parking lot to drink multiple times a day. In some pockets, I still contend thats the case. Parents hire tutors and work with their kids to make sure their student gets what they need if FCPS is failing them in a certain area. I think in recent times, parents are too stressed in other areas to provide these extra supports. As a result, FCPS’ glowing test scores, etc are going down. Combine that with FCPS wanting to teach to the lowest common denominator and one Fairfax concept, FCPS is headed straight for the bottom.

[Anonymous]

I don't know what you all are talking about. I was educated in the 70/80s and went to UVa, and now my kid is in FCPS. The work he is doing is much more difficult, and the expectations much higher. There is a lot more writing in subjects like science and history, whereas we mostly memorized facts and took multiple choice tests. I am not sure he's actually learning more, but it's certainly not easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what you all are talking about. I was educated in the 70/80s and went to UVa, and now my kid is in FCPS. The work he is doing is much more difficult, and the expectations much higher. There is a lot more writing in subjects like science and history, whereas we mostly memorized facts and took multiple choice tests. I am not sure he's actually learning more, but it's certainly not easier.

+1

It's all way more accelerated - right from K up to 12th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to FCPS ES-HS with a relatively large cohort of Vietnamese and Iranian refugees. I can’t think of one of my immigrant classmates who struggled to learn English nor do I recall any needing much or any special assistance. All were quickly integrated into the school community and several became my close friends. Notably and with few exceptions, this group ended up being high-achieving, stellar students.

FCPS is now overwhelmed by illegal immigrants and students who arrive here at 16 or older and emancipate themselves.

And certain areas have large ESOL populations that are largely uninterested in assimilating because of undocumented individuals in their community or because of the resources/opportunities that already exist within their sub-community.

Vietnamese and Iranian refugees back then were political refugees, not economic migrants. Big difference. I also grew up in a neighborhood which was a destination for families fleeing these countries, by and large they were the children of educated, middle and upper class to wealthy highly skilled professionals (they had servants they weren't servants). The parents weren't illiterate and for the most part, they were fluent in multiple languages including English.

Now that's the first wave of Vietnamese immigrants, the subsequent waves, the "boat people" had issues similar to more modern economic migrants, but they were welcomed and given assistance from the Federal Govt. when they arrived. Their numbers were manageable, and they settled in cities, as per traditional immigrants of the past. And there were maybe a couple hundred thousand a year who were given status, so they worked above the table, but even still these later waves didn't have the same advantages as the first waves, often they were neither educated, financially stable or proficient English speakers.

Also, immigration has changed, people no longer flock to cities, they often settle in the suburbs. This is true of the wealthier and more advantaged immigrants as well as the poorer less well educated (functionally or entirely illiterate) and they are arriving in big numbers. The Local, State and Fed. Governments need to cough up more money, a lot more money and they need to get creative in ways to bring these kids up much faster than they are doing. Fairfax One is great in theory, but in actuality in order to make it work, you need to make the pie a lot bigger. You need a lot more money for these groups, not the same amount of money, or even proportional amounts, and the outreach needs to not be just through the schools, but community based. But hey who wants to pay more taxes right? Even if a failure to do so means boats get dragged down rather than lifted up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to FCPS ES-HS with a relatively large cohort of Vietnamese and Iranian refugees. I can’t think of one of my immigrant classmates who struggled to learn English nor do I recall any needing much or any special assistance. All were quickly integrated into the school community and several became my close friends. Notably and with few exceptions, this group ended up being high-achieving, stellar students.

FCPS is now overwhelmed by illegal immigrants and students who arrive here at 16 or older and emancipate themselves.

And certain areas have large ESOL populations that are largely uninterested in assimilating because of undocumented individuals in their community or because of the resources/opportunities that already exist within their sub-community.

Vietnamese and Iranian refugees back then were political refugees, not economic migrants. Big difference. I also grew up in a neighborhood which was a destination for families fleeing these countries, by and large they were the children of educated, middle and upper class to wealthy highly skilled professionals (they had servants they weren't servants). The parents weren't illiterate and for the most part, they were fluent in multiple languages including English.

Now that's the first wave of Vietnamese immigrants, the subsequent waves, the "boat people" had issues similar to more modern economic migrants, but they were welcomed and given assistance from the Federal Govt. when they arrived. Their numbers were manageable, and they settled in cities, as per traditional immigrants of the past. And there were maybe a couple hundred thousand a year who were given status, so they worked above the table, but even still these later waves didn't have the same advantages as the first waves, often they were neither educated, financially stable or proficient English speakers.

Also, immigration has changed, people no longer flock to cities, they often settle in the suburbs. This is true of the wealthier and more advantaged immigrants as well as the poorer less well educated (functionally or entirely illiterate) and they are arriving in big numbers. The Local, State and Fed. Governments need to cough up more money, a lot more money and they need to get creative in ways to bring these kids up much faster than they are doing. Fairfax One is great in theory, but in actuality in order to make it work, you need to make the pie a lot bigger. You need a lot more money for these groups, not the same amount of money, or even proportional amounts, and the outreach needs to not be just through the schools, but community based. But hey who wants to pay more taxes right? Even if a failure to do so means boats get dragged down rather than lifted up.

The argument that we need to spend more on immigrant students to accommodate their needs overlooks a deeper issue—how the surge in undocumented students has fundamentally strained the FCPS system over time. In the 1990s, only about 9-10% of students were classified as ell, and the system could manage this without significant stress. By the 2000s, ELL numbers grew to 15%, a noticeable increase, but still manageable.

However, things began to change dramatically in the 2010s, when the percentage of ELL students surged to around 20%. This placed much greater pressure on FCPS to provide specialized language instruction and support services. Today, ELL students account for nearly 27% of the student population, with some schools like Justice High seeing almost 80% of their students in this category. This sharp rise has led to serious issues such as a 14% dropout rate and 24% chronic absenteeism at Justice High, pushing the school to the brink of losing accreditation.

The situation has been exacerbated by policies like Fairfax County’s "Trust Policy," which limits cooperation with federal immigration enforcement and has allowed the number of undocumented students to swell. Instead of pumping more taxpayer money into a system that is buckling under the pressure, we need to address the root cause: the growing influx of illegal immigrants. More spending will only serve as a temporary bandage for a problem that requires real enforcement of immigration laws.

By comparing the 90s to today, it’s clear that the increase in ELL students—many of whom are undocumented—is not sustainable. Schools are forced to divert resources to deal with the language barrier, leaving less for the rest of the student population. We should be focusing on controlling the flow of illegal immigration, not just throwing more money at the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCS only really cares about Madison, McLean, Langley, West Springfield, Oakton, Robinson, lake Braddock, and maybe Woodson and Fairfax. That’s pretty much it.

🤣. Someone doesn’t know the current school board’s plans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to FCPS ES-HS with a relatively large cohort of Vietnamese and Iranian refugees. I can’t think of one of my immigrant classmates who struggled to learn English nor do I recall any needing much or any special assistance. All were quickly integrated into the school community and several became my close friends. Notably and with few exceptions, this group ended up being high-achieving, stellar students.

FCPS is now overwhelmed by illegal immigrants and students who arrive here at 16 or older and emancipate themselves.

And certain areas have large ESOL populations that are largely uninterested in assimilating because of undocumented individuals in their community or because of the resources/opportunities that already exist within their sub-community.

Vietnamese and Iranian refugees back then were political refugees, not economic migrants. Big difference. I also grew up in a neighborhood which was a destination for families fleeing these countries, by and large they were the children of educated, middle and upper class to wealthy highly skilled professionals (they had servants they weren't servants). The parents weren't illiterate and for the most part, they were fluent in multiple languages including English.

Now that's the first wave of Vietnamese immigrants, the subsequent waves, the "boat people" had issues similar to more modern economic migrants, but they were welcomed and given assistance from the Federal Govt. when they arrived. Their numbers were manageable, and they settled in cities, as per traditional immigrants of the past. And there were maybe a couple hundred thousand a year who were given status, so they worked above the table, but even still these later waves didn't have the same advantages as the first waves, often they were neither educated, financially stable or proficient English speakers.

Also, immigration has changed, people no longer flock to cities, they often settle in the suburbs. This is true of the wealthier and more advantaged immigrants as well as the poorer less well educated (functionally or entirely illiterate) and they are arriving in big numbers. The Local, State and Fed. Governments need to cough up more money, a lot more money and they need to get creative in ways to bring these kids up much faster than they are doing. Fairfax One is great in theory, but in actuality in order to make it work, you need to make the pie a lot bigger. You need a lot more money for these groups, not the same amount of money, or even proportional amounts, and the outreach needs to not be just through the schools, but community based. But hey who wants to pay more taxes right? Even if a failure to do so means boats get dragged down rather than lifted up.

The argument that we need to spend more on immigrant students to accommodate their needs overlooks a deeper issue—how the surge in undocumented students has fundamentally strained the FCPS system over time. In the 1990s, only about 9-10% of students were classified as ell, and the system could manage this without significant stress. By the 2000s, ELL numbers grew to 15%, a noticeable increase, but still manageable.

However, things began to change dramatically in the 2010s, when the percentage of ELL students surged to around 20%. This placed much greater pressure on FCPS to provide specialized language instruction and support services. Today, ELL students account for nearly 27% of the student population, with some schools like Justice High seeing almost 80% of their students in this category. This sharp rise has led to serious issues such as a 14% dropout rate and 24% chronic absenteeism at Justice High, pushing the school to the brink of losing accreditation.

The situation has been exacerbated by policies like Fairfax County’s "Trust Policy," which limits cooperation with federal immigration enforcement and has allowed the number of undocumented students to swell. Instead of pumping more taxpayer money into a system that is buckling under the pressure, we need to address the root cause: the growing influx of illegal immigrants. More spending will only serve as a temporary bandage for a problem that requires real enforcement of immigration laws.

By comparing the 90s to today, it’s clear that the increase in ELL students—many of whom are undocumented—is not sustainable. Schools are forced to divert resources to deal with the language barrier, leaving less for the rest of the student population. We should be focusing on controlling the flow of illegal immigration, not just throwing more money at the problem.

Please cite a reputable source that the English learner students are here illegally. I am genuinely interested in what that percentage is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to FCPS ES-HS with a relatively large cohort of Vietnamese and Iranian refugees. I can’t think of one of my immigrant classmates who struggled to learn English nor do I recall any needing much or any special assistance. All were quickly integrated into the school community and several became my close friends. Notably and with few exceptions, this group ended up being high-achieving, stellar students.

FCPS is now overwhelmed by illegal immigrants and students who arrive here at 16 or older and emancipate themselves.

I have fond memories of the day I learned to play Iranian dodgeball. The family was a recent arrival and on day one in the new neighborhood the kids were outside mixing with us. Their intro line upon seeing us playing Amercan style dodge ball was to say, hey "do you guys know how to play Iranian dodge ball?". About 30 minutes later we were all hooked, had made new friends and that was it for American dogdge ball it was Iranian all day every day. It took over the play ground in elemenrtary.

This was possible because these kids were the English fluent children of wealthy highly educated professionals. They were in reduced financial circumstances but not for long. Last I heard the kids are now all doctors and lawyers.

It's much easier to assimilate as a kid and especially so if you are a kid who speaks the language.

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is FCPS is getting worse and educating to the least common denominator. Those who can afford to send their kids to private school will get quality education and those consigned to the inadequate FCPS industrial education complex will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCS only really cares about Madison, McLean, Langley, West Springfield, Oakton, Robinson, lake Braddock, and maybe Woodson and Fairfax. That’s pretty much it.

LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS should expand free preK.

Yes. And prioritize the high ESL schools.