Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
There are formulas for that. And if you child had that severe of a dairy allergy, it was an unusual case and not really relevant to overall policy.
Many dairy free formulas contain corn syrup which quite a lot of adults won’t eat; it seems unlikely they would feed it to their children if there are any other options.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
This was actually good news for me! Everyone has been on me about still nursing a 22 month old so this gave me cover!! I work from home with a great nanny so she has always been able to nurse whenever she wants. Never used a bottle or pumped past the first six months.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
I always worked when I was pumping. All the mothers in our office did. No one is going to sit there for 20 minutes staring at the wall.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
The “burden” on our coworkers is supposed to be addressed by our employers. In my office we got a fellow when I went out on maternity leave and he remained for two years. Other offices get temps. Offices that just tell the other employees to suck it up are bad offices that are not prioritizing their employees.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
I always worked when I was pumping. All the mothers in our office did. No one is going to sit there for 20 minutes staring at the wall.
I started out always pumping on the same conference call, which I’d spend 90% on mute. Then one day I needed to talk and one of my colleagues
Asked if I had the espresso machine going
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
I always worked when I was pumping. All the mothers in our office did. No one is going to sit there for 20 minutes staring at the wall.
I started out always pumping on the same conference call, which I’d spend 90% on mute. Then one day I needed to talk and one of my colleagues
Asked if I had the espresso machine going
Congratulations on working in an office job? In most jobs this is not possible and would be extremely disruptive.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
I always worked when I was pumping. All the mothers in our office did. No one is going to sit there for 20 minutes staring at the wall.
I started out always pumping on the same conference call, which I’d spend 90% on mute. Then one day I needed to talk and one of my colleagues
Asked if I had the espresso machine going
Congratulations on working in an office job? In most jobs this is not possible and would be extremely disruptive.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
The child could have gotten formula. Stop being ridiculous.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
There are formulas for that. And if you child had that severe of a dairy allergy, it was an unusual case and not really relevant to overall policy.
Wasnt an allergy. It was an intolerance- CMPI. Formula is not suggested for over 1 year and DF formula is not covered by insurance after 1year unless there are no other foods. I was directed by a board certified allergist to continue BF, if I was willing to, to meet his nutritional needs. He is 4 and still intolerant to everything but baked dairy. We have done the dairy challenge 2 previous times prior to this most recent round that started a little after he turned 4.
Presumably he’s not still breastfeeding at 4, so there are alternatives. Amino acid formulas, etc.
Anonymous wrote:It’s really all about the culture of safety-ism for children. Because we live in a society with a lacking social safety net, lawsuits are typically how damages are handled. The AAP is just recommending doctors to say the safest thing so they can’t be sued. In reality, this is not what it looks like on the ground.
I had a baby in 2017 and in 2020. Both times. I brought my own formula to the hospital just in case. With my youngest, I offered some because his latch was a little funky. The nurse was like “you didn’t need to bring that.” Also, both babies went to the nursery for a few hours. It was offered to me. On the website, it says that they room in. But in reality they don’t want you falling asleep holding the baby.
My pediatrician recommended supplementing with no hesitation. When the pediatrician asks where the baby slept, I just didn’t mention that it was mostly in my arms. No doctor is going to recommend cosleeping but moms do what works.
I wish there was some way to reach out to pregnant women and urge them to ignore the culture of safetyism from their first child. It would save so many women from immense mental suffering. I went through it with my first. He wanted nothing to do with the bassinet, so I just didn’t sleep. Raging postpartum anxiety that lasted for years impacted us both.
Parents do drop babies more often in baby-friendly hospitals. It is a thing that happens. Babies get injured because of this.
yes but it isnt solely dropped from breastfeeding. Also if they would make sidecar cribs to the bed, it would be easier. If there was more nursing staff so the ratio was 1:4, meaning if its 1 baby plus 1 mother then they only have two rooms. Or having a separate nurse for mom and baby, with mother ratio being 1:4 mothers and infants being 1:2.
The nursery option wasnt great either. In 2008 ratios of nurses to infants in the nursery was 1:8. 8 infants....newborns who need feeding, burping, rocking, diaper changes, temp checks, bilirubin checks, etc. No thank you.
It does not matter if the specific mother was breastfeeding. The policies are justified based on increasing breastfeeding. In reality it is a cost cutting measure and the victims are new mothers and babies. The AAP should get seriously slammed for this. Sorry you don't like the nursery but to me it is worth babies not getting skull fractures and developing seizures. Our country really, really hates women and babies, JFC.
Just because a hospital cuts costs and blames breastfeeding support doesn’t make actual breastfeeding support the problem. They could increase nursing staff, upgrade the equipment, add home-visits and “blame” breastfeeding support for that.
It's a breastfeeding support initiative. Make all the excuses you want, lactivism has become a cultist, misogynist religion. I think breastfeeding is a great choice when it is a choice, not when women are harangued into doing it for benefits that continue to be exaggerated by organizations like the AAP.
I am super pro breastfeeding for those who want to, but if the AAP would focus on the really important things PP suggested (more nurses per mother/infant, more nurses in the nursery, shorter hours for medical staff, etc.) instead of making all the outcomes about whether people breastfeed or not it would be better for breastfeeding moms AND formula feeding moms. I bet you'd get more people willing to try breastfeeding if they weren't so miserably stressed anyway.
Heyo, all those things cost money. Much better to act like changing the mothers' behavior is the start and end of early childhood wellbeing. After all, women's labor is free to the system! I also have long believed that public health focuses on breastfeeding because they KNOW that new mothers are a susceptible audience. Nothing to do with the actual costs and benefits of interventions; they just know that women can be pressured.
I just don’t understand WHY, I guess. What is the super important health benefit that EVERYONE has to breastfeed for 2+ years, in a developed country where we have clean water and baby formula? The last I looked into this (years ago), the only benefit that was outside of controlling for factors like family income, day care/non day care, education, etc. was a small reduction on a population - not even individual - level basis in ear infections and diarrhea. And that pumped and stored milk loses even those small benefits. Is that really worth all the hand wringing that new moms do about BFing?
The reccomendation isn’t that everyone has to nurse for two years. It’s that people who want to nurse past one, whose babies want to nurse last one, should be supported in doing so.
Also the benefits after one year primarily are a reduced cancer risk for the mother. I feel like that should matter.
Being pregnant and giving birth also reduces your risk of breast and ovarian cancer, but you don’t see these organizations telling women to get pregnant and have kids if they don’t want to. Birth control use also reduces BC risk and is a lot less invasive on your life.
They’re not saying to nurse if you don’t want to either— they’re saying if you and your infant want to nurse past one year, you should be supported in that choice by your pediatrician and your workplace. That’s what “mutually desired” means in the recommendation.
Why is there no recommendation that pediatricians and workplaces support other feeding choices? Other feeding choices can involve a lot of time or be less common, like a vegan diet.
What evidence exists that pediatricians and workplaces routinely impose barriers to a vegan diet?
AAP should give the feeding wars a break and issue workplace recommendations on nap time for new mothers.
Like how they explicitly call for longer, paid, maternity leave as part of these recommendations?
So much public health advice seems rooted in women not even attempting to hold down a job.
Buying formula should not be a requirement to a woman having a job and a child unless her desire is to feed formula. Professional women and wealthy women are given lactation lounges at work, mandatory breaks, and other supports to breastfeeding. Those should be widely available not replaced by another consumer product.
No, they should not get “mandatory breaks” that other workers don’t get to express breast milk for their over 1-year-old CHILD (not infant).
Yeah sorry you’ve lost me. Unpaid breaks in a clean room are not to much to expect.
then I should also get a break to go grocery shopping for my 1 year old.
Why?
Because pumping after 1 is purely a matter of personal preference and not nutritionally necessary for the child. So I should also get time off during the day to work on my voluntary choices for feeding my family.
It is nutritionally complementary and my son couldn't drink milk. Breast milk is more nutritional compared to soy almond or coconut. So yes it was necessary and I did pump until 15 months that was the extent my job would provide a space but it would have been helpful to pump longer as we had to transition to no dairy milks for daycare and he lost weight so we had to find more caloric items to try because he couldn't have dairy nor avocado so fats were low.
Kudos to you for doing this for your kid and I’m really sorry your workplace was so stingy about it.
— Another parent of a highly allergic kid
I'm sorry, what? Everyone knows that soy milk and almond milk are not milk. Loads of kids have dairy allergies. It doesn't mean they need breast milk indefinitely. SMH.
If you read everything that poster wrote, she was advised by her allergist to continue BF-ing.
But if you think people who hate breastfeeding suddenly look rational and interested in the well being of mothers and babies when they decide to tear down a mother for making sure her kid got the necessary nutrition, you are truly mistaken.
Actually you all sound really entitled if you think taking 3 30 minute breaks per day has no costs to anybody else. If you actually can make up the time later in the day sure (though I doubt most actually do) but for many jobs it is very disruptive. At least acknowledge the burden on your coworkers. JFC.
I always worked when I was pumping. All the mothers in our office did. No one is going to sit there for 20 minutes staring at the wall.
I started out always pumping on the same conference call, which I’d spend 90% on mute. Then one day I needed to talk and one of my colleagues
Asked if I had the espresso machine going
Congratulations on working in an office job? In most jobs this is not possible and would be extremely disruptive.
You aren’t a mother, are you PP?
Yes, and I WOH and understand the world does not revolve around me.
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