Shooting down of passenger jets

[Anonymous]

The shooting down of MH17 is horrific and a tragedy.

But this is not an isolated incident because it has happened previously but the outcry has varied. There was similar outrage when the then Soviet Union shot down a Korean Airlines plane. There was less outrage when the US shot down an Iranian passenger airplane and Israel shot down a Libyan Airlines passenger plane.

So amidst all the outrage being expressed at the latest tragedy, it is not an isolated case by any means and the condemnation of such incidents has not always been the same.

I think it is generally agreed that the shooting down of MH17 was an accident in that whoever did it was not seeking to down a passenger airplane - which is what transpired at least in some of the other cases.

Excerpts from the below link:

Iran Air Flight 655, flying over the Persian Gulf and bound for Dubai, was shot down by an American naval warship, killing all 290 people on board. According to Navy officials, the ship, which had been exchanging fire with Iranian vessels, fired missiles at the plane because the crew mistook it for a F-14 fighter jet. The government in Tehran didn't see the shooting as an accident, and the incident caused political ramifications that resonate to this day.

Headed from New York to Seoul, KAL Flight 007 was shot down by the Soviet Union near Moneron Island. After leaving Anchorage to make the last leg of its journey, the plane drifted slightly off course and edged into Soviet airspace. The Boeing 747 didn’t look too different on radar from the RC-135s that the US government used for surveillance in the area, prompting the Russians to scramble a fighter jet that fired two missiles at Flight 007, killing all 269 passengers and crew members onboard.

The (Libyan)aircraft was shot down by Israel after instrument failure and bad weather caused the flight to veer off course. The Boeing 727 departed from Tripoli, Libya, and was on its way to Cairo, Eygpt. But after a short stop in Benghazi, it ran into a sandstorm and headed into the Sinai desert, controlled by the Israeli government after the Six Day War.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/07/malaysia-airlines-ukraine-crash-mh17-planes-military-shot-down

[Anonymous]

^^ I think most people would agree that is was not intentionally downed - seems as if it was mistaken for a military plane.
Much of the outrage surrounding this particular incident is the reaction by the Russian government. There is quite a bit of evidence to show that the Russian government was behind this incident in that they seemed to be the ones to provide the missiles to the rebels. The fact that the investigation of the shooting by international investigators is being hampered by the rebels is making this tragedy much worse. And, the fact that Russia is promoting propaganda about the downing of the plane angers many:

Russia’s state-controlled media joined in the obfuscation, casting blame on Ukrainian military forces and even suggesting the Malaysian plane was hit by a missile aimed at an aircraft carrying Russian President Vladi­mir Putin. For his part, Mr. Putin disingenuously claimed that Ukraine was at fault because it resumed military operations against the rebels — ignoring Russia’s supply of heavy arms to the insurgents.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/after-malaysian-plane-tragedy-in-ukraine-us-must-increase-sanctions-on-russia/2014/07/17/5a9667dc-0ddc-11e4-b8e5-d0de80767fc2_story.html

[Anonymous]

There were different circumstances in the other cases namely of mistaken identity however misinformed. But nothing you provide backs up your claim that there was less outrage for the previous incidents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There were different circumstances in the other cases namely of mistaken identity however misinformed. But nothing you provide backs up your claim that there was less outrage for the previous incidents.

Agreed that none of these instances were deliberate - including the Malaysian aircraft - but the focus on seeking additional sanctions and pressuring the European nations to do the same against Russia on account of this tragedy is at odds with the much more muted reaction when it came to the downing of the Iranian and Libyan planes.

Did the world seek to impose sanctions against the US and Israel and the USSR when the other planes were shot down?

[Anonymous]

The behavior surrounding this incident is appalling, if the reports of the crash site being looted are true. The residents of Lockerbie acted very differently.

[Anonymous]

^^The difference is that this is happening in a war zone.

It does not excuse what is happening but to compare the situation to Lockerbie or a crash in any stable environment is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

The shooting down of the Malaysian plane is being used by those with an agenda - mainly the right wing - to punish Russia for its support of Russian separatists in Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

These incidents all have their own unique circumstances, and demand different reactions.

And yes, the rebels are trying to hide evidence because they KNOW they did this, even if it was by accident.

Lockerbie was a completely different environment - the plane blew up over scotland, not shot down in the middle of a civil war.

But I am getting annoyed at people screaming about us not threatening Putin immediately with bombs and such. This situation is WAAAY too complicated to immediately jump to that conclusion.

[Anonymous]

There is more outrage because this want an accident. Mother Jones = Mother Jihad

[Anonymous]

When we shoot a passenger jet or another friendly country does it, we rationalize it using any number of excuses; when it is a country with whom we have less than friendly relations, condemnation is swift and unqualified.

[Anonymous]

Putin has the mindset that Hitler did. He is all about the glory of Russia. He is evil. Ironic that he was the host of the International Olympics and then a few short months later his actions result in the deaths of all these innocent people from many countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Putin has the mindset that Hitler did. He is all about the glory of Russia. He is evil. Ironic that he was the host of the International Olympics and then a few short months later his actions result in the deaths of all these innocent people from many countries.

Please ....... we invaded Iraq under false pretenses and cost thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives and left the region in a state of chaos.

If Putin is akin to Hitler, what does that make Bush and Cheney?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Putin has the mindset that Hitler did. He is all about the glory of Russia. He is evil. Ironic that he was the host of the International Olympics and then a few short months later his actions result in the deaths of all these innocent people from many countries.

Please ....... we invaded Iraq under false pretenses and cost thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives and left the region in a state of chaos.

If Putin is akin to Hitler, what does that make Bush and Cheney?

Oh Yeah . You are right. Putin is a peach. Just let him take over the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Putin has the mindset that Hitler did. He is all about the glory of Russia. He is evil. Ironic that he was the host of the International Olympics and then a few short months later his actions result in the deaths of all these innocent people from many countries.

Please ....... we invaded Iraq under false pretenses and cost thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of Iraqi lives and left the region in a state of chaos.

If Putin is akin to Hitler, what does that make Bush and Cheney?

Oh Yeah . You are right. Putin is a peach. Just let him take over the world.

You are a jackass. To say that Putin is like Hitler is idiotic and more to the point it makes the actions taken by Bush and Cheney to be even more egregious. It does not mean that one is giving Putin a pass.

But just to show that I don't merely single out Republicans, here is what Madeline Albright, Clinton's Secretary of State, said about the effect of sanctions and the death of Iraqi children:

In May of 1996, 60 Minutes aired an interview with Madeline Albright, who at the time was Clinton"s UN Ambassador. Correspondent Leslie Stahl said to Albright, "We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that"s more children than died in Hiroshima. And — and you know, is the price worth it?"

Madeline Albright replied "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price — we think the price is worth it."


Yep! Albright - and American Secretary of State - said the death of 500,000 Iraqi children resulting from sanctions was "worth it"! And she kept her job!!

[Anonymous]

Serious question - it is probably wise to equip commercial jets with flare and chaff countermeasures.