South Arlington and North Arlington Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not that the education isn't equal, in the sense that the facilities and the resources and the quality of the teachers is the same in all schools across Arlington. What's different is--what the teachers have to spend time in class focusing on, what kinds of opportunities the kids have (funding for after school activities, parent support for various clubs, etc.), what the general tenor of the school is. My kids go to schools in south Arlington and the stuff that we get from the schools and the stuff the parents talk about is different from north Arlington schools. We get flyers about sending in food for backpacks for kids who would otherwise go hungry on the weekends. Other schools send home flyers about enrichment activities and academic competitions. The focus at our middle school seems to be on getting kids to pass and stay in school through high school graduation--it emphasizes "career" readiness as much as "college" readiness. If I have a kid who I want to go to college, he is missing out somewhat by not being immersed in a culture where college is the expectation. We just don't hear about certain opportunities, because the teachers and the other parents don't know about them or don't focus on them. If the schools were less segregated economically, you wouldn't have this kind of divide, but the board is unwilling to implement more choice schools or drastically redraw the boundaries to get this kind of change.

Anonymous wrote:10:48 gets it. Have had kids in schools north & south. Speaking only for my middle class kids (And my family was not afraid of the 50% ++ FARMS school that we attended for 5 years), the difference in the learning environment & opportunities in class & out are night & day. It's a shame that VOICE & Mary Hynes don't want to pursue that for less affluent kids. They will at least get adequate schools though. And that seems To be all the VOICE advocates in S. Arl want.

I think you two are right on the money.
It is NOT that the schools themselves or the teachers are different at all, it is the environment, the feel of the school, expectations, and activities offered through the PTA ....
And that stems solely from an unequal and disproportionate socioeconomic distribution at the respective schools.
IF there was a more even distribution, I think it would lift all the schools, without causing any negatives in the highest SES schools.

I would be interested in more concrete examples from the PP who had kids in schools in different (neighborhood?) schools in Arlington! And I'd like to hear from that PP, if your experiences were in elementary school, vs. middle and high school (if applicable). Thanks!

Regardless, overcrowding is a serious issue in ALL of Arlington, at every school level, and any "Affordable Housing plan" that aims to add thousands and thousands of new kids that need assistance into the county is unconscionable at this point.

Not wanting to start a fight, but if these kids are already in the DC region or are predictably going to be here, they need someplace to live, don't they? I have kids in Arlington schools and the overcrowding and poverty concentration concern me, but at a fundamental human level I find it very hard to just slam the door shut and say there's no room for anyone else. How is it any different than Europe squabbling over whether to allow refugees across their borders? Nobody really has enough room, do they? Schools matter, but so does basic human dignity, right?

No one is shutting the door. But not every door can be open or opened, right? Pretty sure that many North Arlingtonians are free to pontificate knowing full well that the doorbell won't ring on their streets or schools. Plus, they'd call the cops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh, what he said was troubling. I think what Cristol said was worse.

But he really wants her to be elected with him... doesn't that mean, that he basically agrees with her on most things?!

He has to say that. They both have to keep ACDC support behind them.

Agreed. Remember what the Arlington County Democratic Committee did to poor Libbey Garvey when she backed Vihstadt? I'm a Dem and have worked to get other Dems elected at the state and national level, but the ACDC makes me want to vomit. They act like they are the mob bosses of Arlington and will take anyone out who doesn't agree with them. They even make you sign that stupid (admittedly, unenforceable) pledge when you vote in their party primary stating that you will back the Dem candidate in the general election, even if the person you voted for doesn't win the primary. If Dorsey said a bad word about Cristol, he would be toast.

[Anonymous]

It's different because we aren't saying no. We've been saying nothing but yes and working as a community to get people housed and fed. AFAC could always take more money and donations, but on the whole we're a very giving community.

Most people are on board, until they realize their child is getting somewhat short changed. Parents here are well educated and they know 80% poverty isn't good for their own child.
Are you willing to sacrifice what your kid is getting?

I don't feel bad answering no to that question.
If we lived on an island and people were drowning around me- I'd answer differently, but there is no reason people can't live in less expensive areas. PG county, Prince Williams, Woodbridge, Manassas. There are lots of great options in the metro area. Many middle class families have great quality of life in those communities. Are saying they are good enough for many middle class, but not good enough Arlington's poor?

[Anonymous]

Just wondering....
Not that this would even happen...



Let's say that they could/would even disperse the number of impoverished students evenly among the schools. What would that break it down to? Would every elementary be at 15%? 25%? 35%?...


Just wondering how many kids that need assistance are here in the system.

[Anonymous]

It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

[Anonymous]

I realize that the county board and the school board are separate entities, but the county board provides the school board's budget, so what the candidates think about education has a major influence on how I see them, and there's no one I want there.

Sending your kid to APS tells me that you think one size fits all and test scores are a good way to assesses school quality.

Spending all day evaluating education and coming to the conclusion that charter schools are anything other than the corporate takeover of what should be a public service -- I don't know why someone above thinks she's on the left, because that is one coopted cupcake, right there. If you like Andrew Cuomo, you'll love Katie Cristol.

And I know it sounds nitpicky, but MMcM is interested in business. I don't want to make every decision a bottom-line one, and I am not impressed by how hands-on and detail-oriented someone is when he states that his children went to "Washington & Lee High School and H.B. Woodland."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

The county board says they want to INCREASE the percentage of the "poor" that need assistance in the entire county to just below 20%.
Doesn't make sense, does it? Am I missing something here? If it is already ONE THIRD of our school children in Arlington now?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dorsey is from south arlington and his kids are or went to south arlington schools.

Cristol is totally fine with concentrating all the affordable housing on the pike. She also thinks it is perfectly fine to have schools with 70% farms. She does not think SOL scores mean much because each student is different and arlington has great teachers.

How do I know? I asked her at a meeting. There is. I question and her answer to me was very clear. She may try to soften it now that people like me have challenged her position. She talks the talk, but when asked specific questions she would not change the lack of diversity in our schools. She is very close to Mary Hynes and advised the board on what questions t ask the school board in that ridiculous affordablehousing housing plan. The questions were written to support the plan. Period.

If you want to continue shoving the poorer people in arlington in south Arlington, vote Cristol. If you don't, vote McMenamin and Dorsey.

I find this hard to believe. I work at Randolph Elementary, where I know Katie as a volunteer. She also lives in South Arlington and has volunteered at an elementary school for years despite not having any kids there. I know that isn't what I was doing with my free time when I was 25.

I believe that Katie may have defended the quality of the school or the excellence of our students at Randolph and elsewhere in South Arlington, so maybe you misinterpreted her saying that she was proud of our school as saying that she doesn't care about the students there. And by the way, SOL scores do Not tel you everything about a student, and we Do have great teachers here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dorsey is from south arlington and his kids are or went to south arlington schools.

Cristol is totally fine with concentrating all the affordable housing on the pike. She also thinks it is perfectly fine to have schools with 70% farms. She does not think SOL scores mean much because each student is different and arlington has great teachers.

How do I know? I asked her at a meeting. There is. I question and her answer to me was very clear. She may try to soften it now that people like me have challenged her position. She talks the talk, but when asked specific questions she would not change the lack of diversity in our schools. She is very close to Mary Hynes and advised the board on what questions t ask the school board in that ridiculous affordablehousing housing plan. The questions were written to support the plan. Period.

If you want to continue shoving the poorer people in arlington in south Arlington, vote Cristol. If you don't, vote McMenamin and Dorsey.

I find this hard to believe. I work at Randolph Elementary, where I know Katie as a volunteer. She also lives in South Arlington and has volunteered at an elementary school for years despite not having any kids there. I know that isn't what I was doing with my free time when I was 25.

I believe that Katie may have defended the quality of the school or the excellence of our students at Randolph and elsewhere in South Arlington, so maybe you misinterpreted her saying that she was proud of our school as saying that she doesn't care about the students there. And by the way, SOL scores do Not tel you everything about a student, and we Do have great teachers here.

I too would have been volunteering and doing community service at 25 if I had aspirations of political office. Cynical yes, but likely.
She has been asked many questions involving AH and isn't willing to connect the dots between that and school performance. If she can't have an honest conversation of some basic truths, she can't have my vote.
She has said SOL's aren't the best metric. Is that a common refrain at Randolph? I'm sure the teachers there are fantastic. No one on these threads have even implied this a teacher problem. I'm tired of the board using test scores when it's politically convenient. Either they matter or they don't.
She also needs to tone down the political jargon and give more specifics.
Also, cool it with the micro units.

[Anonymous]

No one thinks the teachers at Randolph/Barcroft/Carlin Springs are anything but terrific. Probably better than the ones elsewhere in Arlington because they have the toughest jobs. What gets me about Katie is that she thinks the SITUATION at those S. Arlington schools is fine and that we should just pack more poor kids into them by maximizing affordable housing along the Pike instead of spreading it elsewhere. A "diverse" Arlington means an Arlington with all the poor people in the South; not an Arlington where diverse students learn from each other and attend the same schools. Also, she advocates for charter schools (imagine what that would do to the most troubled S. Arlington schools). The point is the learning environment is not the same as the rest of Arlington and only someone with a condescending view of what constitutes opportunity for poor kids could argue otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

To get an idea of what 30% looks like, look at Long Branch and Oakridge. These two are closest to the county average of 30% FARMS -- 31% at Oakridge, 33% at Long Branch. Both have good test scores overall (both are 8 on Greatschools). My kids are at Long Branch and it's been a great community. I've been very happy with how my kids have been challenged and the various enrichment opportunities they have. It doesn't feel like poverty/ESL related issues are taking too much time. We have friends at Oakridge who are similarly pleased with their experience there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It'd be 30%. That is the free and reduced lunch rate for all of Arlington. But a lot of us (N. and S.) would just like to see it balanced a bit so there is not 70-80% at Carlin Springs/Randolph and 2% at Jamestown/Nottingham. How about 50-60% and 15-20%?

That would definitely be much more banlanced and diverse for these schools. Of course I should have just considered the overall rates. Duh.
30 % is a lot, but that seems like a number we can absorb. I am concerned that the new plan will add to that. When we start to approach 40/50 % as a county- that seems untenable.

To get an idea of what 30% looks like, look at Long Branch and Oakridge. These two are closest to the county average of 30% FARMS -- 31% at Oakridge, 33% at Long Branch. Both have good test scores overall (both are 8 on Greatschools). My kids are at Long Branch and it's been a great community. I've been very happy with how my kids have been challenged and the various enrichment opportunities they have. It doesn't feel like poverty/ESL related issues are taking too much time. We have friends at Oakridge who are similarly pleased with their experience there.

Thanks for the real world examples. It sucks that many of the s arl elementaries would be lucky to make it down to 50%. I really think anything over 40 is too high. I don't see how that can't have a negative impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one thinks the teachers at Randolph/Barcroft/Carlin Springs are anything but terrific. Probably better than the ones elsewhere in Arlington because they have the toughest jobs. What gets me about Katie is that she thinks the SITUATION at those S. Arlington schools is fine and that we should just pack more poor kids into them by maximizing affordable housing along the Pike instead of spreading it elsewhere. A "diverse" Arlington means an Arlington with all the poor people in the South; not an Arlington where diverse students learn from each other and attend the same schools. Also, she advocates for charter schools (imagine what that would do to the most troubled S. Arlington schools). The point is the learning environment is not the same as the rest of Arlington and only someone with a condescending view of what constitutes opportunity for poor kids could argue otherwise.

This exactly! The teachers are excellent, they have to be. Nobody here is criticizing the staff, or even the facilities, of schools in Arlington that have a higher percentage of children from lower SES backgrounds. It is the situation; kids who start school already behind STAY behind when they are educated in classrooms where the majority of students are starting off at a similar deficit. And they are "behind" not from lack of intelligence or natural aptitude, but because English may not be their first, or even second language, or they may have parents who are not educated themselves, or who simply cannot provide the same in-home resources as their more advantaged peers because of lack of money/time.

I find Katie's volunteerism to be commendable, however, I find it troubling that her window into the situation at Randolph has not caused her to question whether children at Randolph, even with all the resources and devoted teachers and supportive staff, would not be better served in a more diverse educational environment. If Katie is indeed supportive of Charter schools, perhaps it is she who thinks that teachers/teaching methods are part of the problem to be solved. Personally, I think Charter schools are terrible and I hope we never see one in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

There is a very condescending, pandering attitude taken by our county board in regards to the south western part of the county. It's sickening to me.
I heard Libby Garvey had made some idiot comment about what those poor people on Colimbia Pike were going to do without foodstar!!! And I don't think she meant just during the construction phase.
Jeez Libby, I don't know??? Shop at the Safeway or Giant or whatever grocery they put in that new development.

Like these are stray puppies we have to Sheppard and corral together.
That's not liberal! That's not progressive!
Immigrant communities are better served when they integrate, and if you are unconvinced of that- just check out how well segregating Muslim populations in France is going.

It's very telling to me to have first hand knowlegde and experience with a school - and not take away a deeper understanding of the intrinsic challenges it faces. You can still acknowledge that learning is happening, the kids are sweethearts, and the staff is outstanding. But if you want to be the one setting policy, I'm gonna want to hear something deeper and more critical.

Being a constant cheerleader for our poor and immigrant communities feels good, but is totally lacking in substance.