What is the deal with South Lakes/Herndon HS

[Anonymous]

We are new to this area. We didn't have a lot of time to arrange housing, so we ended up renting the first option we saw that was affordable and decent. Now that our son is in school, we've spent some time here, and made some friends, we're starting to get some ideas about where we want to be.

We are thinking of buying a TH in Reston because it will be a reasonable commute for DH, and closer to DS's out-of-boundary immersion school. Since he will be in the immersion program through middle school, the school thing isn't really an issue right now. However, it is my understanding that once middle school is over, my son would attend his base HS. Unless we try for TJ (not sure we want to) he would be attending either South Lakes or Herndon, depending on where we bought.

I've seen the scores of these schools - not sure how much it matters, but they are really low. What is going on with that? Does this matter?

I'm also wondering about the area possibly gentrifying - it seems many young families such as ourselves are completely priced out of other areas, and are buying in Reston and Herndon - not priced out due to being low income per se, or single parent homes - it seems like a lot of the families have both parents working decent jobs and simply cannot come up with 200k for a down payment.

For people who've been here for a while, would buying in Reston be reasonable? I really get the feeling that my son would be better off NOT attending Langley or McLean, since he'd be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of SES, and although he is smart and motivated, and possibly have a smaller chance of being accepted at many of the better colleges due to the quotas imposed at those schools.

It's hard for me to gauge this, since I grew up going to a "10" school that offered a lot in terms of opportunities, but wasn't all that, at least for me - I was a small, poor fish in a big, rich pond and it really warped my perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are new to this area. We didn't have a lot of time to arrange housing, so we ended up renting the first option we saw that was affordable and decent. Now that our son is in school, we've spent some time here, and made some friends, we're starting to get some ideas about where we want to be.

We are thinking of buying a TH in Reston because it will be a reasonable commute for DH, and closer to DS's out-of-boundary immersion school. Since he will be in the immersion program through middle school, the school thing isn't really an issue right now. However, it is my understanding that once middle school is over, my son would attend his base HS. Unless we try for TJ (not sure we want to) he would be attending either South Lakes or Herndon, depending on where we bought.

I've seen the scores of these schools - not sure how much it matters, but they are really low. What is going on with that? Does this matter?

I'm also wondering about the area possibly gentrifying - it seems many young families such as ourselves are completely priced out of other areas, and are buying in Reston and Herndon - not priced out due to being low income per se, or single parent homes - it seems like a lot of the families have both parents working decent jobs and simply cannot come up with 200k for a down payment.

For people who've been here for a while, would buying in Reston be reasonable? I really get the feeling that my son would be better off NOT attending Langley or McLean, since he'd be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of SES, and although he is smart and motivated, and possibly have a smaller chance of being accepted at many of the better colleges due to the quotas imposed at those schools.

It's hard for me to gauge this, since I grew up going to a "10" school that offered a lot in terms of opportunities, but wasn't all that, at least for me - I was a small, poor fish in a big, rich pond and it really warped my perspective.

The scores at Herndon and South Lakes are not "really low." They generally are about average for the county, and well above state and national levels. There have been years recently, for example, where the SAT scores at Herndon were higher than at any high school in Loudoun County. Really, either should be fine.

FCPS eventually plans to open a new high school in western Fairfax, and when that happens the Herndon and South Lakes boundaries likely will change. All that FCPS has suggested at this point is that it expects the school to be built by some point between 2020 and 2024.

FYI, McLean is more diverse than Langley, and someone who could afford a TH in North Reston would have SES peers there, even if that would put you at the "bottom of the barrel in terms of SES" at Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are new to this area. We didn't have a lot of time to arrange housing, so we ended up renting the first option we saw that was affordable and decent. Now that our son is in school, we've spent some time here, and made some friends, we're starting to get some ideas about where we want to be.

We are thinking of buying a TH in Reston because it will be a reasonable commute for DH, and closer to DS's out-of-boundary immersion school. Since he will be in the immersion program through middle school, the school thing isn't really an issue right now. However, it is my understanding that once middle school is over, my son would attend his base HS. Unless we try for TJ (not sure we want to) he would be attending either South Lakes or Herndon, depending on where we bought.

I've seen the scores of these schools - not sure how much it matters, but they are really low. What is going on with that? Does this matter?

I'm also wondering about the area possibly gentrifying - it seems many young families such as ourselves are completely priced out of other areas, and are buying in Reston and Herndon - not priced out due to being low income per se, or single parent homes - it seems like a lot of the families have both parents working decent jobs and simply cannot come up with 200k for a down payment.

For people who've been here for a while, would buying in Reston be reasonable? I really get the feeling that my son would be better off NOT attending Langley or McLean, since he'd be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of SES, and although he is smart and motivated, and possibly have a smaller chance of being accepted at many of the better colleges due to the quotas imposed at those schools.

It's hard for me to gauge this, since I grew up going to a "10" school that offered a lot in terms of opportunities, but wasn't all that, at least for me - I was a small, poor fish in a big, rich pond and it really warped my perspective.

The scores at Herndon and South Lakes are not "really low." They generally are about average for the county, and well above state and national levels. There have been years recently, for example, where the SAT scores at Herndon were higher than at any high school in Loudoun County. Really, either should be fine.

FCPS eventually plans to open a new high school in western Fairfax, and when that happens the Herndon and South Lakes boundaries likely will change. All that FCPS has suggested at this point is that it expects the school to be built by some point between 2020 and 2024.

FYI, McLean is more diverse than Langley, and someone who could afford a TH in North Reston would have SES peers there, even if that would put you at the "bottom of the barrel in terms of SES" at Langley.

Just to add, that if you are looking for a school that bridges the space between Herndon/South Lakes and Langley/McLean, Marshall is an obvious candidate. It is an IB school like South Lakes.

[Anonymous]

How can they wait that many years to build a new high school when so many are already overcrowded? They better build it by 2020.

[Anonymous]

Either school would be fine. There are plenty of excellent teachers and students in both schools. I would go for Herndon over South Lakes because I think AP is better. Others would disagree.

[Anonymous]

South lakes has had gang issues and a large population of esol since the crackdown on illegal immigration in bordering county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:South lakes has had gang issues and a large population of esol since the crackdown on illegal immigration in bordering county.

Wromg. The ESOL population at South Lakes has been around 10% for years and the FARMS percentage has been declining.

[Anonymous]

NP here. Hmm, my DD is currently 6 so she would be entering high school around 2022. We are currently zoned for Herndon and live RIGHT on the western border of Fairfax County and Loudoun County (the other side of the street actually IS Loudoun County). I really wonder where she will end up being zoned for, then.

[Anonymous]

Whenever you look at scores for an entire school, you are essentially looking at the overall average SES of the school. It is a fact that when taken as a composite, the SAT/SOL scores for Herndon and South Lakes are a little above average for the state. That is not a bad thing. But, OP, you are making a mistaken assumption that every kid scored "a little above average" --- not the case! There is a significant portion of kids who scored high and another portion that scored lower at each school. (That's what happens when you have higher cost housing in the same school zone as lower cost housing). This is not going to change with any boundary adjustment. There will always be a mix of housing (i.e. SES) at each school.

When you add the scores of the high-achieving kids to the scores of the low achieving kids together and divide --- yes-- it results in "average" scores for the school. This does not mean the teaching is lacking. It means there are a mix of kids at this school.... aka "diversity." It's not a bad thing.

Now, you look at a school like Langley or Oakton or McLean --- guess what? Not any low-income apartments in those schools. The type of housing dictates who can afford to live there and is a good predictor of the test scores. Little economic diversity (b/c almost all are high on the SES scale) -- the test scores are going to be pretty much the same too. Schools like Langley and McLean are starting with kids that have every advantage in the book (particularly parents with degrees who can afford enrichment and who can discuss bigger ideas at the dinner table). There are similar kids at Herndon and South Lakes -- but they are only a portion of the total student body and they do quite well on their tests.

Don't denigrate a school just because it has a mixed bag of students.

[Anonymous]

Lol at "wondering about the area possible gentrifying."

Reston is about as suburban suburbia as you can get and Herndon is less flashy but definitely the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whenever you look at scores for an entire school, you are essentially looking at the overall average SES of the school. It is a fact that when taken as a composite, the SAT/SOL scores for Herndon and South Lakes are a little above average for the state. That is not a bad thing. But, OP, you are making a mistaken assumption that every kid scored "a little above average" --- not the case! There is a significant portion of kids who scored high and another portion that scored lower at each school. (That's what happens when you have higher cost housing in the same school zone as lower cost housing). This is not going to change with any boundary adjustment. There will always be a mix of housing (i.e. SES) at each school.

When you add the scores of the high-achieving kids to the scores of the low achieving kids together and divide --- yes-- it results in "average" scores for the school. This does not mean the teaching is lacking. It means there are a mix of kids at this school.... aka "diversity." It's not a bad thing.

Now, you look at a school like Langley or Oakton or McLean --- guess what? Not any low-income apartments in those schools. The type of housing dictates who can afford to live there and is a good predictor of the test scores. Little economic diversity (b/c almost all are high on the SES scale) -- the test scores are going to be pretty much the same too. Schools like Langley and McLean are starting with kids that have every advantage in the book (particularly parents with degrees who can afford enrichment and who can discuss bigger ideas at the dinner table). There are similar kids at Herndon and South Lakes -- but they are only a portion of the total student body and they do quite well on their tests.

Don't denigrate a school just because it has a mixed bag of students.

Agree with this except, that you are wrong to put Langley, Oakton and McLean in the same bucket. Both Oakton and McLean have low and moderate-income areas and are about 10% FARMS. In Oakton's case, the lower-income area is off Blake Lane near Fairfax. In McLean's case, it's a strip of garden apartments in Falls Church north of Lee Highway. At both schools, there is a wide SES range, but it's weighted more heavily towards upper-income families than at South Lakes or Herndon.

Langley is different. There are no apartments that currently feed into Langley. The least expensive housing consists of some older single-family homes in Great Falls and a modest townhouse complex north of Dolley Madison in McLean. With a few exceptions, you need at least $700K to buy into the Langley district.

[Anonymous]

10% low income kids still means your overall test scores are going to be weighted in favor of the kids who have all the resources in the world. Schools like South Lakes and Herndon have 35% low income kids -- of course the overall scores for the school are going to be weighed down by that.

If you look at the break down on the SOLs -- the average pass rate for non-poor kids at both South Lakes and Herndon is an 8 out of 10 (compared to all other high schools in Va.). The pass rate for white kids at South Lakes and at Herndon is a 9 out of 10. No one can look at these numbers and seriously say that South Lakes and/or Herndon are poor schools. It's just a farce. They have diversity... period. If you want your kids to be completely surrounded by other high achieving kids -- well, maybe Langley is the best choice for you. But if you value having your kids learning to interact with different types of people, AND you want them to have a good education, you should not discount Herndon or South Lakes.

FWIW -- my kids aren't in either pyramid. But they are in another pyramid that gets a similarly bad rap b/c the HS has a mixture of kids. It's not a negative to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whenever you look at scores for an entire school, you are essentially looking at the overall average SES of the school. It is a fact that when taken as a composite, the SAT/SOL scores for Herndon and South Lakes are a little above average for the state. That is not a bad thing. But, OP, you are making a mistaken assumption that every kid scored "a little above average" --- not the case! There is a significant portion of kids who scored high and another portion that scored lower at each school. (That's what happens when you have higher cost housing in the same school zone as lower cost housing). This is not going to change with any boundary adjustment. There will always be a mix of housing (i.e. SES) at each school.

When you add the scores of the high-achieving kids to the scores of the low achieving kids together and divide --- yes-- it results in "average" scores for the school. This does not mean the teaching is lacking. It means there are a mix of kids at this school.... aka "diversity." It's not a bad thing.

Now, you look at a school like Langley or Oakton or McLean --- guess what? Not any low-income apartments in those schools. The type of housing dictates who can afford to live there and is a good predictor of the test scores. Little economic diversity (b/c almost all are high on the SES scale) -- the test scores are going to be pretty much the same too. Schools like Langley and McLean are starting with kids that have every advantage in the book (particularly parents with degrees who can afford enrichment and who can discuss bigger ideas at the dinner table). There are similar kids at Herndon and South Lakes -- but they are only a portion of the total student body and they do quite well on their tests.

Don't denigrate a school just because it has a mixed bag of students.

+1000 This is the best explanation I have seen of what average SAT scores mean. Not much. If you've got a smart kid they're going to do well whether you put them in a school with high average scores or low ones. Frankly, it seems like the parents who get worked up about these scores are probably afraid their kids won't do well on the SAT's anyway.

I know families at both schools, OP, and all are happy. If my choice was between those two and Langley, I would opt for South Lakes or Herndon any day. Langley's lack of diversity and Richie Rich student population are only part of the problems at that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10% low income kids still means your overall test scores are going to be weighted in favor of the kids who have all the resources in the world. Schools like South Lakes and Herndon have 35% low income kids -- of course the overall scores for the school are going to be weighed down by that.

If you look at the break down on the SOLs -- the average pass rate for non-poor kids at both South Lakes and Herndon is an 8 out of 10 (compared to all other high schools in Va.). The pass rate for white kids at South Lakes and at Herndon is a 9 out of 10. No one can look at these numbers and seriously say that South Lakes and/or Herndon are poor schools. It's just a farce. They have diversity... period. If you want your kids to be completely surrounded by other high achieving kids -- well, maybe Langley is the best choice for you. But if you value having your kids learning to interact with different types of people, AND you want them to have a good education, you should not discount Herndon or South Lakes.

FWIW -- my kids aren't in either pyramid. But they are in another pyramid that gets a similarly bad rap b/c the HS has a mixture of kids. It's not a negative to me.

I agree completely with your second paragraph.

But South Lakes is closer to 25% FARMS than 35%, and I'd argue there's a meaningful difference between a school in which fewer than one out of 50 kids is low-income (Langley) and ones in which roughly one out of 10 are (McLean, Oakton, etc.), perhaps less in terms of average test scores than in terms of the overall school environment and how comfortable a moderate-income student would feel at a school. And, of course, there is a difference between not receiving FARMS and having "all the resources in the world" at your disposal.

[Anonymous]

South Lakes was the reason we bought in Sterling instead of Herndon or Reston. We just heard too many bad things about it.