When to disclose pregnancy in hiring process?

[Anonymous]

I'm interviewing for a position and I'm 14 weeks along. My plan is to disclose the pregnancy if I get an offer and negotiate maternity leave as part of my salary package. My feeling is that if the employer is shocked and/or annoyed about the pregnancy news, they will resist any maternity leave and that will be a good indication that its not the kind of job that I want. I definitely want to disclose before I start working there, and before I accept, because that should allow me to gauge my sense of the office policies on work and family.

I know that they had previously given a fairly generous paternity leave package to another employee but since I will have been there only about 6 months, I'm not sure if I would get a similar package.

I spoke some older family members (one of whom worked in HR) and he suggested that I be upfront about the pregnancy during the interview process, but explain that I am prepared to accept unpaid maternity leave. I should also explain that I am prepared to work from home throughout the maternity leave (unpaid, mind you!) and come in to the office whenever necessary (also unpaid). I really feel like this career advice is something out of Mad Men, which would make sense considering that he's older and male and worked in HR.

Please help me figure out if I'm crazy, or if his view on feminism in the workplace is totally unrealistic and impractical. His advice is just making me so angry and it's hard for me to think clearly.

[Anonymous]

OP here. I found this link and it seems like the right approach to take, but I'd love other thoughts: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/reveal-im-pregnant-accepting-job/

[Anonymous]

there's a theory that when a person negotiates in a job offer situation, they are setting their worth, so when a man negotiates for a huge increase in salary, the person on the other side of the desk thinks "wow, he's worth a lot. what a great guy." whereas when a woman just accepts what she is given, the person on the other side thinks "huh, ok, she's taking the offer and not asking for anything at all. she's obviously not as good as the guy who wants a million bucks."

so, based on that theory alone, i would suggest that you ignore your uncle and bring up the pregnancy once the offer is made and negotiate hard for a paid maternity leave.

remember to negotiate for everything at once - come in with your ideal - 3 months paid mat leave plus 5 weeks vacation plus pay plus signing bonus and then slide things around to come up with an agreement. you might still not get the mat leave, but hopefully, you'll end up higher somewhere else - maybe they can give a high signing bonus or more vacation time every year...

[Anonymous]

OP here.

Thanks. This is kind of my philosophy. I think traditionally women have accepted the notion that pregnancy is a disability that prevents us from performing in a way similar to men, and therefore accepted whatever shitty arrangement we are given OR you just drop out of the workforce because you have not found a company that will provide you with the lifestyle you need to raise your child. I am (at the moment) in the latter category. Although I have over 12 years of experience in my field, I wasn't able to find a position that provided me the salary and hours that would allow me to take care of my high needs child.

I had planned to just have another baby and return to work when maternity leave was no longer an issue but this opportunity literally fell into my lap and it seems interesting. However that being said, I'm not willing to sacrifice my family for the job.

I feel like maternity leave (like any other benefit) should be negotiated at the time of offer. And if the employer is hostile, its probably not worth taking.

[Anonymous]

Definitely wait until you get an offer. Even from the employer's perspective, disclosing at this point puts them in an awkward situation (which is what you can say when you do disclose, if they seem miffed that you didn't let them know sooner). I agree with PP regarding going in and negotiating from the starting point of your ideal.

In my own situation, I didn't qualify for maternity leave under the employer's policy (it was a pretty crappy short-term disability-based policy), so I negotiated for a higher salary since I would be taking unpaid leave.

[Anonymous]

OP - I think your plan is right on. Please ignore your uncle - his advice is outdated and, frankly, insulting. My negotiation stance is "make them say no once" - make sure you ask for your ideal. It shows your worth and will likely get you something you are comfortable with (because a counter will be more generous than if you had started low). Also, the most they can say is no. If you get an offer, a company would rather work with you to negotiate a good solution than to find, interview, and recruit someone else...

As I said in a similar thread here recently (last week maybe?), any company who interviews and offers a job to a woman under 45 knows this is a possibility.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you all so much. I am horrible in negotiations and I've always gotten paid pretty horribly so I would like some help with the negotiations.

I know that the person who I am replacing (who was in the position for 5 years) was making 105K. We have similar amounts of experience. Mine more substantive, hers more prestigious. What should I ask for in terms of salary if I am asked?

I was thinking of asking for $95-100K as a range?

I know that you are never supposed to throw out the first number, but in my experience employers will push you on this.

[Anonymous]

I am a great negotiator (and just reading your last post I winced.. do NOT ask for 95-100 if the person before you made 105! Ask for 105-115. Worst they can say is no.)

That said, I was recently in an experience where I pushed very hard for someone in a hiring process who was expecting and did not disclose it. I also work for a VERY family friendly organization (so that had nothing to do with my feelings) and was actually expecting myself at the time. I have to tell you, I felt totally sucker punched. It just felt so dishonest to me. I know that others felt the same.

For me, personally, she would have done so much better to just be up front with it from the get go. It really felt so dishonest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a great negotiator (and just reading your last post I winced.. do NOT ask for 95-100 if the person before you made 105! Ask for 105-115. Worst they can say is no.)

That said, I was recently in an experience where I pushed very hard for someone in a hiring process who was expecting and did not disclose it. I also work for a VERY family friendly organization (so that had nothing to do with my feelings) and was actually expecting myself at the time. I have to tell you, I felt totally sucker punched. It just felt so dishonest to me. I know that others felt the same.

For me, personally, she would have done so much better to just be up front with it from the get go. It really felt so dishonest.

OP here. When did she disclose the pregnancy? During the negotiations or afterwards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a great negotiator (and just reading your last post I winced.. do NOT ask for 95-100 if the person before you made 105! Ask for 105-115. Worst they can say is no.)

That said, I was recently in an experience where I pushed very hard for someone in a hiring process who was expecting and did not disclose it. I also work for a VERY family friendly organization (so that had nothing to do with my feelings) and was actually expecting myself at the time. I have to tell you, I felt totally sucker punched. It just felt so dishonest to me. I know that others felt the same.

For me, personally, she would have done so much better to just be up front with it from the get go. It really felt so dishonest.

Also, can you negotiate the salary for me?

I know its a thing, but I would be such a better negotiator for other people (I'm horrible with negotiating for myself).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a great negotiator (and just reading your last post I winced.. do NOT ask for 95-100 if the person before you made 105! Ask for 105-115. Worst they can say is no.)

That said, I was recently in an experience where I pushed very hard for someone in a hiring process who was expecting and did not disclose it. I also work for a VERY family friendly organization (so that had nothing to do with my feelings) and was actually expecting myself at the time. I have to tell you, I felt totally sucker punched. It just felt so dishonest to me. I know that others felt the same.

For me, personally, she would have done so much better to just be up front with it from the get go. It really felt so dishonest.

Also, can you negotiate the salary for me?

I know its a thing, but I would be such a better negotiator for other people (I'm horrible with negotiating for myself).

Haha, I know, it is easier when your own career is not at stake. I have found that my negotiations have been the most effective when I am truly 100% willing to walk away. It sounds like your situation now could fall into that. Like if you aren't out there desperate for a job, and really like the new opportunity AT THE RIGHT PRICE, you have to get that across .. not immediately but in due time. If they know you are willing to walk away, they will give you more.

The woman I am referencing came in and interviewed when she was probably about 18 weeks, but not showing (very slim). The hiring process took quite a while (both our fault and hers, unrelated to her pregnancy). We didn't end up getting her an offer for maybe 10 weeks. She said something at that point to HR, regarding what her plan would be etc, and still did not say anything to me, who had gone out to bat for her. At this point I knew, and I'm not sure if she knew I knew, but it was SO awkward. Like HELLO you are clearly very pregnant and pretending you are not!

[Anonymous]

OP, a few things:

- You are not entitled to ANY maternity leave at all per law. They can ask you to come back right away. FMLA protection doesn't kick in until you've been on the job 1 year. I'm not saying they will, but I wouldn't go in expecting to get that 6 months paid, or even 6 months unpaid leave as a new employee.

- They can't legally have you work for them unpaid during your maternity leave. That violates FLSA and it's foolish and you shouldn't even bring it up as an option. You could offer to be responsive to communication during that time, though.

- You have probably identified the best strategy for potentially maximizing your salary and chances of getting the job, but PP is right that it's essentially dishonest and could leave people upset that you weren't straightforward. It's a trade-off. If it's a small organization where people are close and need good relationships to get things done, I'd err on the side of disclosing early. If it's a big organization and you can be assured people work on project teams wherein there is less reliance on personal relationships, I'd err on the side of hedging my best by telling later (at negotiation).

- Please at least ask for a range that includes the former employee's salary. Don't undervalue yourself just because you are expecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a great negotiator (and just reading your last post I winced.. do NOT ask for 95-100 if the person before you made 105! Ask for 105-115. Worst they can say is no.)

That said, I was recently in an experience where I pushed very hard for someone in a hiring process who was expecting and did not disclose it. I also work for a VERY family friendly organization (so that had nothing to do with my feelings) and was actually expecting myself at the time. I have to tell you, I felt totally sucker punched. It just felt so dishonest to me. I know that others felt the same.

For me, personally, she would have done so much better to just be up front with it from the get go. It really felt so dishonest.

Also, can you negotiate the salary for me?

I know its a thing, but I would be such a better negotiator for other people (I'm horrible with negotiating for myself).

OP, (i'm the first person who posted on your thread about women not negotiating) start way higher!!! Start at 110 and then let it settle downwards and know your bottom limit.

Also, don't consider this as negotiating for yourself, but as negotiating for all the women who will come behind you - set a precedent. good luck!!

[Anonymous]

OP, let me tell you the reality of how this works:

First, do they really want your skills and can they afford not to have those skills for the period you are on maternity leave?

Do they have any other applicant who they can hire who will not need maternity leave and who would compare with you in terms of your skill set and experience?

How they will react depends on these two factors.

Having said this, I would disclose your pregnancy after they make you an offer and negotiate the best deal you can but as a hiring manager, I can tell you that depending on the position who I would offer a position to would be influenced by whether the position is one where I can function without the individual present for a period of time during maternity leave.

Not to hire someone because she is pregnant is illegal but it is not illegal to permit maternity leave only in accordance with company policy and the requirements of FMLA. Even after the job offer is made, the hiring manager can effectively sabotage the offer through how much leeway they would give the pregnant applicant. So depending on how much you want the job, you should be willing to accept the minimum that the company allows its employees in the way of leave unless your skill set is such that you have the leverage to be aggressive in your demands.

From the standpoint of the hiring manager he/she cannot use the pregnancy of an employee as a reason for why goals have not been satisfied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, a few things:

- You are not entitled to ANY maternity leave at all per law. They can ask you to come back right away. FMLA protection doesn't kick in until you've been on the job 1 year. I'm not saying they will, but I wouldn't go in expecting to get that 6 months paid, or even 6 months unpaid leave as a new employee.

- They can't legally have you work for them unpaid during your maternity leave. That violates FLSA and it's foolish and you shouldn't even bring it up as an option. You could offer to be responsive to communication during that time, though.

- You have probably identified the best strategy for potentially maximizing your salary and chances of getting the job, but PP is right that it's essentially dishonest and could leave people upset that you weren't straightforward. It's a trade-off. If it's a small organization where people are close and need good relationships to get things done, I'd err on the side of disclosing early. If it's a big organization and you can be assured people work on project teams wherein there is less reliance on personal relationships, I'd err on the side of hedging my best by telling later (at negotiation).

- Please at least ask for a range that includes the former employee's salary. Don't undervalue yourself just because you are expecting.

OP here.

I realize that I'm not entitled to any maternity leave, but if I get an offer I am planning on negotiating a leave package as part of the salary negotiations. I didn't lowball my salary b/c I am pregnant, but rather I lowballed the salary because the person (who has been in the job for 5 years) is making 105 so I assumed I would be making less than that.

Thanks for the information re: working unpaid during maternity leave. That is super helpful. I balked at that suggestion but it's helpful to know that it is illegal.

It is a fairly big organization and the person I would be working with (who would shoulder the burden when I'm on maternity leave) just took several months paternity leave so I think he would understand.