ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So talking with a friend of mine at the ECNL showcase this weekend. Also I’ll say he told me last summer at surf cup about the age change that was coming and has some very reliable people that he knows. Here is the info I got. It sounds like the Aug hater might get their way and kids will play within their grade within the new 12 month window.
Well sort of…

According to him ECNL is most likely breaking into 3 different groups. Youngers U10-12 and U13-15 and older recruiting ages U16,17,19.
U10-15 will no longer play showcases but will have various cups throughout the year with divisions and tournament champions. Strong RL teams will be invited to these as well.

U10-15 will be based only off the Aug to July 12 month window. However U16/17 will be based off players grades between that 12 month window. So some kids will be pushed up for showcases so they will play against kids within their same grade. League play is still tbd. He didn’t know for sure.
U19 will be for any player who is a senior in high school, age will not matter as long as they are under 19 at the start their club season.

He also has more questions than answers at this point but this is what’s being discussed by ECNL/US Club admin team.

This is already happening? The ECNL showcase this weekend is up to U15 which are the non recruited age groups.
I like the idea of getting away from showcases and adding cups with strong RL teams is smart because that will attract more players to RL.

This won’t be a big change and aligning kids within their same grade U16 and up for showcases to me isn’t a big deal as showcases are meant for recruiting.

I don’t think clubs should or will force players up for league play as they want to be competitive and show how strong their teams are. Kids can always play up if they are capable and willing.

As long as results from showcases don’t matter I completely agree.

They do in ECNL not sure about GA

They do this year. It should be obvious but that would have to change if they were going to use GY for showcases sophomore year and up next year.

Nothing would change for league play, it would still be 8/1-7/31.

I find it hard to believe people would care a ton about exhibition showcases but my kids are aligned so I don't care much either way.

I highly doubt this would work.

Currently theres 3 levels at showcases. Mixing everyone together on the same teams would be 1/3 the amount of games. Assuming they stuck with the one game per day rule.

On top of that Sophmores would get screwed out of their recruitment opportunity when they're the players colleges coaches want to see the most.

I’m not understanding this.. please explain how sophomores are losing out.
I really don’t understand so break it down for me. Please and thank you.

It all depends on how GY showcases are defined. If its purely by grade only what will happen is parents will hold their kid back in school usually up to 2x. This will make them an 18 year old Sophmore. In league games they'd need to play on the u18/u19 team but at showcases they could play on the Sophmore u16 and u17 team.

Do you want holdbacks that are 2 years older than your kid playing with /against them at showcases?

That’s who you are competing with for college spots.

League games are for competition first with some recruiting. Showcases are for recruiting only. They are not the same.

Parents when people tell you who they are listen to them.

The people that dont want a SY 8/1-7/31 rule that younger players play on a team with their grade. Don't want this because they know it will kill GY and players playing 1-2 years down on ECNL teams. They want club soccer to be like HS Soccer.

How is a 2010 player playing 2011 or 2012 in ECNL today?

They want ECNL to adopt the MLS biobanding bullshit, so they can play down to cheat.

Do some reading on Relative Age Effect and biobanding in how it's been used for many years in Europe effectively

Only in the true Academy teams, not in P2P clubs. ECNL leadership is very firm on not letting biobanding slip in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If mlsn2=SY and mlsn1=BY then current u12 with Aug-Dec birthdays have to play up a year for mlsn2 starting in 2026, or repeat u12 premls? If they repeat u12 in the correct new SY age groupings they would then be developmental locked into mlsn2 going forward it seems. otherwise, they would have to play back up a year to get on BY MLsN1?

Getting pigeonholed into mlsn2 would suck for kids that don’t play HS. Games are in the winter too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If mlsn2=SY and mlsn1=BY then current u12 with Aug-Dec birthdays have to play up a year for mlsn2 starting in 2026, or repeat u12 premls? If they repeat u12 in the correct new SY age groupings they would then be developmental locked into mlsn2 going forward it seems. otherwise, they would have to play back up a year to get on BY MLsN1?

Getting pigeonholed into mlsn2 would suck for kids that don’t play HS. Games are in the winter too.

Yeah. Most MLSN1 clubs get tons of kids from ECNL too. That will also be more problematic if they don't switch to SY. You'll basically have two pipelines developing and switching out of one or the other will not be easy. At my kids MLSN1 team (u16) there are exactly 2 players on the team who started with the club. Most of the players arrived after U12 from ECNL, NPL and other MLSN clubs...

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

So BY+SY, with the age range being 17 months on a given team? Great idea, that won’t be problematic at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

So BY+SY, with the age range being 17 months on a given team? Great idea, that won’t be problematic at all.

There will be problems no matter what they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

So BY+SY, with the age range being 17 months on a given team? Great idea, that won’t be problematic at all.

There will be problems no matter what they do.

Not if they move to SY with everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

So BY+SY, with the age range being 17 months on a given team? Great idea, that won’t be problematic at all.

There will be problems no matter what they do.

Not if they move to SY with everyone else.

Well, according to posters here mlsn is the best and can do whatever they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

So BY+SY, with the age range being 17 months on a given team? Great idea, that won’t be problematic at all.

There will be problems no matter what they do.

Not if they move to SY with everyone else.

I mean sure, they should (I have an MLSN player) but they seem to like to do their own thing (even if their own thing already exists and they just call it something else). So making up complicated bioband rules and throwing SY into the bioband mix seems like something they would do. I mean, I can see them being almost completely SY but refusing to call it that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

So BY+SY, with the age range being 17 months on a given team? Great idea, that won’t be problematic at all.

That is no difference from Biobands on the team now. There is a bioband on my kids team who has a mustache and drives himself to practice. It is a U15 team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't checked-in in a couple weeks. Anything new? Looked back a few pages and arguing with the crazy August guy (and his multiple personas) seems to be the only action.

MLSN still being silent on the issue (even after their partner GA announced SY) is baffling to me. I know their communications have always been slow (case in point, they didn't announce the actual name of MLSN2 until what, August), but I don't see what benefit it can be at this point to stay mum. Unless they just enjoy watching ECNL sweat. I talked to a few directors (one MLSN1 and two MLSN2) in the last month and they were all over the place on what they thought was going to happen and all had heard absolutely nothing official.

I don’t think mlsnext has a plan. I think they were full steam ahead BY not realizing the difficulty that would cause their clubs. Do they care now? Who knows.

MLS Next doesn't own or run clubs
It's a league

A league that doesn't concern with what all the lower leagues are doing

Lower leagues are their pipeline. If either or both MLSN leagues stay BY, they will lose a year's worth of 9v9 experience. They also lose out on cumulative RAE effect for the majority of better players to that point that were on SY registration, pushing those players to find an alternative SY league. MLSN is a business first. You know that, but you are just trying to start an argument.

Their top tier is losing money left and right. The league is dependent on money from p2p mlsn 1 and 2 clubs. The league has to think through issues to staying BY to ensure they are still financially viable.

1. How to expand mlsn1 in the future when all outside clubs are 8/1
2. What to do about mlsn2 and how to make a second tier league attractive. They wouldn’t have created mlsn2 if they didn’t need the money.
3. How to keep aug-dec in the mlsn pathway when teams switch from 8/1 to 1/1. A certain number can play down?

If the league has a plan for these issues that allows them to stay BY good for them. The attitude that “mlsn is the best and can do whatever it wants” is not going to lead anywhere good.

Man, talk about just making stuff up for argument sake lol

I think you have no idea how MLSNext works.

MLS academies are a minority of MLSNext.

P2P clubs’ interest is MLS Next moving to SY, otherwise they won’t be able to self organize.

So P2P clubs are more important than the Major League Soccer pipeline and USYNT?

Yes, they are.

P2P are the core for the MLSNext 1/2 business model started last year with the recent creation of the MLS Next Academy Division (pure business Pay To Play soccer).

MLS Next 1 P2P clubs, plus the whole MLS Next 2 (all P2P) have nothing to do with MLS pipeline and USYNT.

I think you haven’t realized that last year MLS Next changed in a direction very different that when it was founded.

This new MLSNext 1/2 is incompatible (to be successful) with a BY system, due to the fact that the whole rest of US soccer has moved to SY.

100% P2P MLS1 has no real connection to the actual MLS Next (aka MLS Academy) — other than one token game a year to play down against a younger MLS Academy team. Any attempt to link it to a professional pathway is just marketing scam and a joke.

There is no “actual” MLS Next different than Homegrown and Academy divisions, where in both divisions P2P clubs OUTNUMBER by a lot to MLS academies.

MLS Next decided to separate of a pure professional pathway when they decided to incorporate dozens of P2P clubs to the 2 leagues.

MLS Next big money comes from P2P clubs parents, not from MLS academies.

By the way my son is a 2011 U15 (starter and max scorer) at a MLS academy, playing at U16 because this year MLS academies are playing 1 year up, and being beaten badly many times by U16 P2P clubs.

Believe me, coaches and staff are infuriated with MLS Next forcing academies to play 1 year up.

What do you think mlsn does next year regarding the age cutoff?

I believe the best solution for everybody would be:

1) MLS Next Homegrown/Academy divisions moving to SY, so that P2P clubs can organize all their age categories in an orderly manner, and not breaking the U12 pipeline to U13. From business point of view MLS Next could grow and face ECNL.

2) MLS academies playing MLS Next Homegrown (SY) but assembling their teams with a BY age cutoff. In that way they would play 5 months up, what would add an extra challenging effort, and also would be aligned with international, professional and USYNs interests.

This makes too much sense so I doubt it will happen lol! I actually expect them to say they aren't changing anything*.

*Biobands will now be allowed strictly on an age basis so that Q4s can play 'down'.

So BY+SY, with the age range being 17 months on a given team? Great idea, that won’t be problematic at all.

There will be problems no matter what they do.

Not if they move to SY with everyone else.

Well, according to posters here mlsn is the best and can do whatever they want.

OR, posters say they don't know what they are doing and it's all about to fall apart and/or ECNL is great.

Seems to me both sides have a few good points but just can't admit it to each other.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So talking with a friend of mine at the ECNL showcase this weekend. Also I’ll say he told me last summer at surf cup about the age change that was coming and has some very reliable people that he knows. Here is the info I got. It sounds like the Aug hater might get their way and kids will play within their grade within the new 12 month window.
Well sort of…

According to him ECNL is most likely breaking into 3 different groups. Youngers U10-12 and U13-15 and older recruiting ages U16,17,19.
U10-15 will no longer play showcases but will have various cups throughout the year with divisions and tournament champions. Strong RL teams will be invited to these as well.

U10-15 will be based only off the Aug to July 12 month window. However U16/17 will be based off players grades between that 12 month window. So some kids will be pushed up for showcases so they will play against kids within their same grade. League play is still tbd. He didn’t know for sure.
U19 will be for any player who is a senior in high school, age will not matter as long as they are under 19 at the start their club season.

He also has more questions than answers at this point but this is what’s being discussed by ECNL/US Club admin team.

This is already happening? The ECNL showcase this weekend is up to U15 which are the non recruited age groups.
I like the idea of getting away from showcases and adding cups with strong RL teams is smart because that will attract more players to RL.

This won’t be a big change and aligning kids within their same grade U16 and up for showcases to me isn’t a big deal as showcases are meant for recruiting.

I don’t think clubs should or will force players up for league play as they want to be competitive and show how strong their teams are. Kids can always play up if they are capable and willing.

As long as results from showcases don’t matter I completely agree.

They do in ECNL not sure about GA

They do this year. It should be obvious but that would have to change if they were going to use GY for showcases sophomore year and up next year.

Nothing would change for league play, it would still be 8/1-7/31.

I find it hard to believe people would care a ton about exhibition showcases but my kids are aligned so I don't care much either way.

I highly doubt this would work.

Currently theres 3 levels at showcases. Mixing everyone together on the same teams would be 1/3 the amount of games. Assuming they stuck with the one game per day rule.

On top of that Sophmores would get screwed out of their recruitment opportunity when they're the players colleges coaches want to see the most.

I’m not understanding this.. please explain how sophomores are losing out.
I really don’t understand so break it down for me. Please and thank you.

It all depends on how GY showcases are defined. If its purely by grade only what will happen is parents will hold their kid back in school usually up to 2x. This will make them an 18 year old Sophmore. In league games they'd need to play on the u18/u19 team but at showcases they could play on the Sophmore u16 and u17 team.

Do you want holdbacks that are 2 years older than your kid playing with /against them at showcases?

That’s who you are competing with for college spots.

League games are for competition first with some recruiting. Showcases are for recruiting only. They are not the same.

Parents when people tell you who they are listen to them.

The people that dont want a SY 8/1-7/31 rule that younger players play on a team with their grade. Don't want this because they know it will kill GY and players playing 1-2 years down on ECNL teams. They want club soccer to be like HS Soccer.

How is a 2010 player playing 2011 or 2012 in ECNL today?

They want ECNL to adopt the MLS biobanding bullshit, so they can play down to cheat.

Do some reading on Relative Age Effect and biobanding in how it's been used for many years in Europe effectively

Only in the true Academy teams, not in P2P clubs. ECNL leadership is very firm on not letting biobanding slip in.

Are there only early and late developers in academy teams but not in P2P?

[Anonymous]

BY or SY or GY my kid is still going to ride the bench and can't use both feet

I'm smart enough to know age cutoff isn't her problem

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So talking with a friend of mine at the ECNL showcase this weekend. Also I’ll say he told me last summer at surf cup about the age change that was coming and has some very reliable people that he knows. Here is the info I got. It sounds like the Aug hater might get their way and kids will play within their grade within the new 12 month window.
Well sort of…

According to him ECNL is most likely breaking into 3 different groups. Youngers U10-12 and U13-15 and older recruiting ages U16,17,19.
U10-15 will no longer play showcases but will have various cups throughout the year with divisions and tournament champions. Strong RL teams will be invited to these as well.

U10-15 will be based only off the Aug to July 12 month window. However U16/17 will be based off players grades between that 12 month window. So some kids will be pushed up for showcases so they will play against kids within their same grade. League play is still tbd. He didn’t know for sure.
U19 will be for any player who is a senior in high school, age will not matter as long as they are under 19 at the start their club season.

He also has more questions than answers at this point but this is what’s being discussed by ECNL/US Club admin team.

This is already happening? The ECNL showcase this weekend is up to U15 which are the non recruited age groups.
I like the idea of getting away from showcases and adding cups with strong RL teams is smart because that will attract more players to RL.

This won’t be a big change and aligning kids within their same grade U16 and up for showcases to me isn’t a big deal as showcases are meant for recruiting.

I don’t think clubs should or will force players up for league play as they want to be competitive and show how strong their teams are. Kids can always play up if they are capable and willing.

As long as results from showcases don’t matter I completely agree.

They do in ECNL not sure about GA

They do this year. It should be obvious but that would have to change if they were going to use GY for showcases sophomore year and up next year.

Nothing would change for league play, it would still be 8/1-7/31.

I find it hard to believe people would care a ton about exhibition showcases but my kids are aligned so I don't care much either way.

I highly doubt this would work.

Currently theres 3 levels at showcases. Mixing everyone together on the same teams would be 1/3 the amount of games. Assuming they stuck with the one game per day rule.

On top of that Sophmores would get screwed out of their recruitment opportunity when they're the players colleges coaches want to see the most.

I’m not understanding this.. please explain how sophomores are losing out.
I really don’t understand so break it down for me. Please and thank you.

It all depends on how GY showcases are defined. If its purely by grade only what will happen is parents will hold their kid back in school usually up to 2x. This will make them an 18 year old Sophmore. In league games they'd need to play on the u18/u19 team but at showcases they could play on the Sophmore u16 and u17 team.

Do you want holdbacks that are 2 years older than your kid playing with /against them at showcases?

That’s who you are competing with for college spots.

League games are for competition first with some recruiting. Showcases are for recruiting only. They are not the same.

Parents when people tell you who they are listen to them.

The people that dont want a SY 8/1-7/31 rule that younger players play on a team with their grade. Don't want this because they know it will kill GY and players playing 1-2 years down on ECNL teams. They want club soccer to be like HS Soccer.

How is a 2010 player playing 2011 or 2012 in ECNL today?

They want ECNL to adopt the MLS biobanding bullshit, so they can play down to cheat.

Do some reading on Relative Age Effect and biobanding in how it's been used for many years in Europe effectively

Only in the true Academy teams, not in P2P clubs. ECNL leadership is very firm on not letting biobanding slip in.

Instead of biobanding ECNL uses the term "u18/u19" also many of the parents on this thread think ECNL will use "GY at Showcases".

Apparently playing down is good when we do it. But everyone else is a cheater.

This is how GY sneaks into youth sports. Generally some sob story edge case is used as the justification. Once implemented real players exploit the rule and sob story edge case never sees the field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:BY or SY or GY my kid is still going to ride the bench and can't use both feet

I'm smart enough to know age cutoff isn't her problem

Theres snowplow parents who honestly believe the development can turn any kid into the next superstar. As you've identified some people are just more naturally talented than others. You cant teach height or speed theres some things you can do to enhance natural attributes which is why players practice. This is the problem with the RAE acolytes they completely discount natural ability.