Question for Parents with 2E Children in AAP

[Anonymous]

My son is 2E (auditory processing problems) and was accepted into AAP. He does great in math, science and social studies but is slightly below grade level in reading and a horrible speller. We have been going back and forth about whether to let him go to a center school this year or keep him at his school this year (no level IV services) and letting him go in 4th grade. In talking with the school they suggested that he would be in the AAP program for everything but language arts, which he would be pulled out for.

For others with 2E kids in AAP any suggestions? If you child had an IEP, was the school able to meet your childs needs? Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences.

[Anonymous]

We were lucky to have LLIV. Although, it was started with DC's class, it was string to start. I knew of too many 2E children who had gone to the AAP Center school, only to return to our home school because of lack of understanding of 2E children. That may have changed as DC is now on 9th grade and Assistant Superintendent Dockery has done quite a bit of 2E education through back channels. DC has had an ISP since 2nd grade and we have had to fight for most of what he needs and there have been good years and bad years. The worst was 7th grade. His strengths are in math and science and there is no better place in the area for that than FCPS- none of the private schools that consider 2E children can match it. We have supplemented outside of school to fill in the blanks- there is no perfect school.

I would ask other local parents who have 2E children who are a year of two older about your specific school options. Does your school have a PTA committee for Special Education Parents? If you don't know of anyone with older children- ask the parents in your DC's grade- some are bound to know parents of older children. It may take a bit of networking.

[Anonymous]

Not ISP, IEP

[Anonymous]

PPs, are you certain that an AAP kid can be pulled out and put into Gen ed? I think this requires parent permission, and I, for one, would not be OK with such. Schools need to be more aware of 2E and need to add more tools to the teacher's toolbox to efficiently teach 2E kids. Our DC is 2E (processing), and we would NEVER agree to having DC moved into Gen ed for any subject.

OP, I would have DC go to AAP center. As I understand, AAP was created for bright children who learn a different way. 2E kids are bright kids who learn a different way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PPs, are you certain that an AAP kid can be pulled out and put into Gen ed? I think this requires parent permission, and I, for one, would not be OK with such. Schools need to be more aware of 2E and need to add more tools to the teacher's toolbox to efficiently teach 2E kids. Our DC is 2E (processing), and we would NEVER agree to having DC moved into Gen ed for any subject.

OP, I would have DC go to AAP center. As I understand, AAP was created for bright children who learn a different way. 2E kids are bright kids who learn a different way.

One of the things that I have learned in parenting children who are "2E", or for that matter parenting children in general, is to never say "NEVER". Each child is different and we have to balance each child's needs and gifts. There are no team taught Honors/AAP/AP classes. They are only in Gen Ed. For some 2E children it makes sense for one (or more) class(es) to be in a special ed or a team taught environment. 2E is too broad for a "one way is the only way" type of mentality. A child with dyslexia and/or dysgraphia needs to spend quite a bit of time working on basic writing and reading skills on a daily basis. Adding the addition work load of AAP/Honors/AP may tip the balance to all work and no play. It can be prudent to have a child enrolled in 3 AAP classes and one gen ed/special ed class to help balance things out. IME, at the ES level, this is done best by the robust LLIV. IME, the Centers do not have the expertise or experience in dealing with certain types of mild to moderate forms of2E- they tend to do mild to moderate ADHD and ASD very well and perhaps mild forms of LDs- but not moderate to severe LDs or more severe forms of ADHD or ASD.

What AAP "was created for" and what it actual is are not the same thing.

[Anonymous]

This depends a great deal on the center and how flexible they are willing to be and what the scheduling options are. I know at our Center, there were AAP kids who were in Gen Ed for some classes. And there were some Gen Ed kids who had advanced classes with AAP kids. Also the AAP teachers did some of the advanced/compacted classes for Gen Ed kids as well, often this was a smaller class for kids with various learning differences.

Due to a bullying situation, they offered to let my kid do compacted math/advanced science with the advanced Gen Ed math/science group. This worked very well for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PPs, are you certain that an AAP kid can be pulled out and put into Gen ed? I think this requires parent permission, and I, for one, would not be OK with such. Schools need to be more aware of 2E and need to add more tools to the teacher's toolbox to efficiently teach 2E kids. Our DC is 2E (processing), and we would NEVER agree to having DC moved into Gen ed for any subject. OP, I would have DC go to AAP center. As I understand, AAP was created for bright children who learn a different way. 2E kids are bright kids who learn a different way.

Oh, the horror.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PPs, are you certain that an AAP kid can be pulled out and put into Gen ed? I think this requires parent permission, and I, for one, would not be OK with such. Schools need to be more aware of 2E and need to add more tools to the teacher's toolbox to efficiently teach 2E kids. Our DC is 2E (processing), and we would NEVER agree to having DC moved into Gen ed for any subject.

OP, I would have DC go to AAP center. As I understand, AAP was created for bright childen who learn a different way. 2E kids are bright kids who learn a different way.

OP here, thanks all for your comments, I really appreciate it. I am still investigating, but believe that he will need to be in general ed. to get help under IEP for reading/writting. I think this is the only place the school gives these services.

If they give him the help he needs, I am fine with this. It would actually be the best of both worlds. He would get the help he needs plus the learning environment he needs. The concern that I have is that when pulled out of class for his IEP at is current school my son is put with children at a much lower level and he is not benefiting as he should under his IEP. The school recognizes this and has started taken some steps, but it has been a tough fight and we are not there yet.

I am worried the new school will not take his IEP seriously. I agree, schools need to be better with 2E children. There is really no excuse to not give them the tools they need to succeed, especially where they are under an IEP and there is a recognized need. It is a very frustrating process.

[Anonymous]

I thought that if a child was found eligible for level IV services, the child would need to be challenged in all aspects of the curriculum. How does a child get identified by the County as needing level IV services at the AAP level but get pulled out for language arts? Would that not be level III - ie needing to be challenged in some but not all aspects of the curriculum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought that if a child was found eligible for level IV services, the child would need to be challenged in all aspects of the curriculum. How does a child get identified by the County as needing level IV services at the AAP level but get pulled out for language arts? Would that not be level III - ie needing to be challenged in some but not all aspects of the curriculum?

You would think so, wouldn't you? Isn't that who full-time level IV services are supposed to be for - students who are advanced in all areas? It's absurd how far AAP has strayed from its original intent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that if a child was found eligible for level IV services, the child would need to be challenged in all aspects of the curriculum. How does a child get identified by the County as needing level IV services at the AAP level but get pulled out for language arts? Would that not be level III - ie needing to be challenged in some but not all aspects of the curriculum?

You would think so, wouldn't you? Isn't that who full-time level IV services are supposed to be for - students who are advanced in all areas? It's absurd how far AAP has strayed from its original intent.

OP here, before my son I might have felt the same. But I know he is a good fit for AAP setting-thus my dilema His sister is in APP and from our experience is geared to how children learn. I disagree that this is straying from the intent of the AAP program-son tests in the 99% on all test and gets top grades with the exception of those covered by IEP which is not surprising. However, I can understand how someone without a 2E child might think differently-I might have thought this too if I did not have first hand experience with my son and know how smart he is and see how his needs aren't being met on either end.

I really appreaciate folks that have shared their experiences hear and others if they are willing to share how they have addressed these types of issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought that if a child was found eligible for level IV services, the child would need to be challenged in all aspects of the curriculum. How does a child get identified by the County as needing level IV services at the AAP level but get pulled out for language arts? Would that not be level III - ie needing to be challenged in some but not all aspects of the curriculum?

How they handled it with my son, is that he was in pull out Special Ed for Language arts in ES until 6th grade. It was two fold. One was addressing his reading and writing issues and one addressed his ability to understand books and write about complex things. So, he had daily one on one reading with a certified Wilson teacher, PT and different spelling and grammar, but did book reports on books well above his grade level. He used audio books and dictated things for the worksheets and book reports that were set at his cognitive level. He used an Alpha Smart for things he did not dictate until he moved to a regular laptop computer with word prediction software and text to speech software. It is a gradual process and balancing out the time constraints of dealing with the issues surrounding his LDs with the things that address his cognitive level are difficult.

This was done in a flexible LLIV environment - where some kids were in Level IV for all four core classes and others were in it for 1-3 core subjects. I don't think it would have been done our Center school as they tend to segregate the AAP kids from the Gen Ed kids for everything including homeroom, PE, Art........ I would also say that just because a child is found eligible for LV services for all core courses, it doesn't mean that the best choice is to put him in all four AAP classes if there are extenuating circumstances competing for his attention.

In MS and now in HS, he takes the Honors level classes for math, science and history, but the team taught English classes. If they had team taught Honors English he would be in those, but I pick my battles. He is a science and math kid and he can take plenty of challenging courses as he likes in HS. He is currently a freshman and finishing up Algebra II Honors. Next year, instead of taking World History AP, he will take AP Statistics. Again, balancing out the needs and gifts with time constraints we all have. He likes history, but the time verses value of AP World History just isn't there for him. We will reassess next year for AP US history, but maybe he will take additional science AP instead.

OP- good luck with everything with your son. I have learned that small steps over time yield sustained progress- be the tortoise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that if a child was found eligible for level IV services, the child would need to be challenged in all aspects of the curriculum. How does a child get identified by the County as needing level IV services at the AAP level but get pulled out for language arts? Would that not be level III - ie needing to be challenged in some but not all aspects of the curriculum?

How they handled it with my son, is that he was in pull out Special Ed for Language arts in ES until 6th grade. It was two fold. One was addressing his reading and writing issues and one addressed his ability to understand books and write about complex things. So, he had daily one on one reading with a certified Wilson teacher, PT and different spelling and grammar, but did book reports on books well above his grade level. He used audio books and dictated things for the worksheets and book reports that were set at his cognitive level. He used an Alpha Smart for things he did not dictate until he moved to a regular laptop computer with word prediction software and text to speech software. It is a gradual process and balancing out the time constraints of dealing with the issues surrounding his LDs with the things that address his cognitive level are difficult.

This was done in a flexible LLIV environment - where some kids were in Level IV for all four core classes and others were in it for 1-3 core subjects. I don't think it would have been done our Center school as they tend to segregate the AAP kids from the Gen Ed kids for everything including homeroom, PE, Art........ I would also say that just because a child is found eligible for LV services for all core courses, it doesn't mean that the best choice is to put him in all four AAP classes if there are extenuating circumstances competing for his attention.

In MS and now in HS, he takes the Honors level classes for math, science and history, but the team taught English classes. If they had team taught Honors English he would be in those, but I pick my battles. He is a science and math kid and he can take plenty of challenging courses as he likes in HS. He is currently a freshman and finishing up Algebra II Honors. Next year, instead of taking World History AP, he will take AP Statistics. Again, balancing out the needs and gifts with time constraints we all have. He likes history, but the time verses value of AP World History just isn't there for him. We will reassess next year for AP US history, but maybe he will take additional science AP instead.

OP- good luck with everything with your son. I have learned that small steps over time yield sustained progress- be the tortoise.

Thanks for sharing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that if a child was found eligible for level IV services, the child would need to be challenged in all aspects of the curriculum. How does a child get identified by the County as needing level IV services at the AAP level but get pulled out for language arts? Would that not be level III - ie needing to be challenged in some but not all aspects of the curriculum?

How they handled it with my son, is that he was in pull out Special Ed for Language arts in ES until 6th grade. It was two fold. One was addressing his reading and writing issues and one addressed his ability to understand books and write about complex things. So, he had daily one on one reading with a certified Wilson teacher, PT and different spelling and grammar, but did book reports on books well above his grade level. He used audio books and dictated things for the worksheets and book reports that were set at his cognitive level. He used an Alpha Smart for things he did not dictate until he moved to a regular laptop computer with word prediction software and text to speech software. It is a gradual process and balancing out the time constraints of dealing with the issues surrounding his LDs with the things that address his cognitive level are difficult.

This was done in a flexible LLIV environment - where some kids were in Level IV for all four core classes and others were in it for 1-3 core subjects. I don't think it would have been done our Center school as they tend to segregate the AAP kids from the Gen Ed kids for everything including homeroom, PE, Art........ I would also say that just because a child is found eligible for LV services for all core courses, it doesn't mean that the best choice is to put him in all four AAP classes if there are extenuating circumstances competing for his attention.

In MS and now in HS, he takes the Honors level classes for math, science and history, but the team taught English classes. If they had team taught Honors English he would be in those, but I pick my battles. He is a science and math kid and he can take plenty of challenging courses as he likes in HS. He is currently a freshman and finishing up Algebra II Honors. Next year, instead of taking World History AP, he will take AP Statistics. Again, balancing out the needs and gifts with time constraints we all have. He likes history, but the time verses value of AP World History just isn't there for him. We will reassess next year for AP US history, but maybe he will take additional science AP instead.

Look at all the additional attention/resources this student has received. Compare to all the average or low average kids who gets zero additional services. Does this not seem unfair in a time where we are always over budget? I think parents of kids in public school need to decide which "special service" they want for their child. The county only has so many resources/$$ and teachers are underpaid and classes are too big as it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought that if a child was found eligible for level IV services, the child would need to be challenged in all aspects of the curriculum. How does a child get identified by the County as needing level IV services at the AAP level but get pulled out for language arts? Would that not be level III - ie needing to be challenged in some but not all aspects of the curriculum?

How they handled it with my son, is that he was in pull out Special Ed for Language arts in ES until 6th grade. It was two fold. One was addressing his reading and writing issues and one addressed his ability to understand books and write about complex things. So, he had daily one on one reading with a certified Wilson teacher, PT and different spelling and grammar, but did book reports on books well above his grade level. He used audio books and dictated things for the worksheets and book reports that were set at his cognitive level. He used an Alpha Smart for things he did not dictate until he moved to a regular laptop computer with word prediction software and text to speech software. It is a gradual process and balancing out the time constraints of dealing with the issues surrounding his LDs with the things that address his cognitive level are difficult.

This was done in a flexible LLIV environment - where some kids were in Level IV for all four core classes and others were in it for 1-3 core subjects. I don't think it would have been done our Center school as they tend to segregate the AAP kids from the Gen Ed kids for everything including homeroom, PE, Art........ I would also say that just because a child is found eligible for LV services for all core courses, it doesn't mean that the best choice is to put him in all four AAP classes if there are extenuating circumstances competing for his attention.

In MS and now in HS, he takes the Honors level classes for math, science and history, but the team taught English classes. If they had team taught Honors English he would be in those, but I pick my battles. He is a science and math kid and he can take plenty of challenging courses as he likes in HS. He is currently a freshman and finishing up Algebra II Honors. Next year, instead of taking World History AP, he will take AP Statistics. Again, balancing out the needs and gifts with time constraints we all have. He likes history, but the time verses value of AP World History just isn't there for him. We will reassess next year for AP US history, but maybe he will take additional science AP instead.

Look at all the additional attention/resources this student has received. Compare to all the average or low average kids who gets zero additional services. Does this not seem unfair in a time where we are always over budget? I think parents of kids in public school need to decide which "special service" they want for their child. The county only has so many resources/$$ and teachers are underpaid and classes are too big as it is.

He gets special services because of his Special Education status, not because he qualified for AAP. The AAP part of his services did not cost the county anymore than a Gen Ed student. Since it is LLVI, he didn't even have the extra expense of bussing to a Center school. The 80 children in his ES grade needed three Gen ed or AAP teachers- two taught Gen Ed and one taught AAP. The Special Education children receive services regardless of if they are in Gen Ed, AAP or in the special education classroom. Average or low average students with the same disabilities would qualify for the same services.