Read this GMU law student's study of TJ's admissions process. It's an eye opener...

[Anonymous]

It's not my paper, I was searching the web to try to find a date when TJ will mail the letters to the kids who applied and tested in December and found this. I remember reading on their documents that they are trying to achieve a diverse student body, and recall that they asked about race on the application. I didn't know all this background info about their selection process. It sounds very stacked to me now, IMO. I'd love to hear other people's thought on this guy's dissertation.

http://mason.gmu.edu/~lcohen2/Cohen%20Final%20Final.doc

[Anonymous]

I think his paper is too convoluted to read casually. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Well, having indulged in an afternoon cup of coffee and thus rendered unable to sleep tonight, I read it. Not a smooth read by any measure. I found his assertions persuasive and well supported.

BUT, given that only 10 black students out of about 400 total were accepted, I had a really hard time getting upset that there might have truly been some bias in that result. Instead, my concern was more centered on why so few black students were applying to TJ such that only 11 would be available in the top 800 for selection.

I wish this guy would have spent more energy focused on this more meaningful issue than worrying about the potential for 10 more white/asian kids to have a shot at TJ. My DC is a white male, by the way.

[Anonymous]

I agree, and I think TJ's assertion that they are trying to achieve a more diverse student body is a fair one to make. What boggles the mind is this process is so convoluted and opaque for the purpose of cherry-picking diverse candidates. It seemed to me that they reject 75% of the applicants based on the test score (appropriate first cut), then they take the top 400 applicants and weed through them looking for the right combination of ability and diversity.

I feel like if TJ wants a more diverse student body, they should start with an outreach program to 5th and 6th graders across the county. Kids should be encouraged to start thinking about math and science in middle school with an eye toward TJ if that's their interest.

Stacking the applications after the fact is too late. They need more diverse applicants to get more diverse students. My child is a white male too, and of all the odds for kids below applicant 400, those stats are the worst for getting into TJ.

[Anonymous]

10:45 again... I also came away from this paper believing that the student information sheet and essays are irrelevant to the selection process. Did you? That whole second screening process is looking for diverse candidates to include, not candidates to exclude.... Bottom line, imo, it's all about the test score and being in the top 300 applicants. After 300, it seems to get dicey.

[Anonymous]

1:07 here. Yes, I agree and was really surprised about how little the information sheet and essays seemed to matter. I know parents that really spend a lot of time and effort over the years making sure their kids have good items to put on that sheet (math camps, science fairs, blah, blah, blah). No doubt such things help children be inspired and do well on the tests, but if your child has natural ability in these areas, they may very well be fine without jumping through so many hoops.

The other question largely ignored is how kids do once they get to TJ. Working so hard to get in can obscure the fact that your work has just begun if you succeed!! I caution parents to be very careful what they hope for ... let your child's natural ability do the admissions work, because if you manage to test prep and child resume him/her in and s/he's not self-motivated to do the work on own ... boy have you got a problem!

Finally, yes I absolutely agree that preparing minorities for TJ way in advance is the only way to ultimately succeed in improving representation at the school. I want to see those kids get in AND have a real chance to do well. Otherwise, you have hurt them by putting them someplace where they are not likely to succeed and this hurts minorities overall in terms of stereotypes about their abilities, etc. Kids of any ethnic group can do well in math and science IF given the chance to explore and learn early. IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The other question largely ignored is how kids do once they get to TJ. Working so hard to get in can obscure the fact that your work has just begun if you succeed!! I caution parents to be very careful what they hope for ... let your child's natural ability do the admissions work, because if you manage to test prep and child resume him/her in and s/he's not self-motivated to do the work on own ... boy have you got a problem!

Amen! I have told my son repeatedly that whether he gets in or not, he will be exactly where he should be. He'd be happy and honored to get in to TJ, but he'd also be happy and very well educated at his home HS if not, and all of his friends will be there. The commute is his biggest concern - - the bus picks up at 6:40 am out here in Loudoun county!! Everything happens for a reason, I tell him...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The other question largely ignored is how kids do once they get to TJ. Working so hard to get in can obscure the fact that your work has just begun if you succeed!! I caution parents to be very careful what they hope for ... let your child's natural ability do the admissions work, because if you manage to test prep and child resume him/her in and s/he's not self-motivated to do the work on own ... boy have you got a problem!

Amen! I have told my son repeatedly that whether he gets in or not, he will be exactly where he should be. He'd be happy and honored to get in to TJ, but he'd also be happy and very well educated at his home HS if not, and all of his friends will be there. The commute is his biggest concern - - the bus picks up at 6:40 am out here in Loudoun county!! Everything happens for a reason, I tell him...

I'm a former LC resident who graduated from TJ. I love to hear about LC children who aren't deterred by that long bus ride. Good luck to your son!

My husband is also a former LC resident/TJ grad. Those bus rides are good for lots of things.

[Anonymous]

I looked at the article, and question the statistical analysis (as far as I can tell, there's no "missing" ethnicity category, which means that the stats program should have crashed...)

Also, this author was so pretentious I could barely stomach the read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, this author was so pretentious I could barely stomach the read.

Yes, I was thinking it read like high drama, and realized he's a law student! I can almost hear him in a courtroom in a few years....

[Anonymous]

Oy. Sadly, that article is not by a law student. It is by a law PROFESSOR. (Who should probably get a life).

[Anonymous]

You are joking!!!

Then the problems with the statistics are egregious. He should have hired a better statistician/econometrician, worked with them to write up those sections PROPERLY and then added the statistician/econometrician as a coauthor.

[Anonymous]

Alas, no. See footnote 1. It says he teaches law. Ow.

[Anonymous]

This is certainly a good read, providing additional details on the process which TJ folks do not tell you about during their open house.

I am wondering and very interested in how this process has changes since last year as their test format has changed (50 questions each for math / science, scrambled paragraphs).

Please advise or let me know, how to reach out to you.

VJ - [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I looked at the article, and question the statistical analysis (as far as I can tell, there's no "missing" ethnicity category, which means that the stats program should have crashed...)

Also, this author was so pretentious I could barely stomach the read.

There is no constant in Table 4, so the program will not crash (i.e. the data matrix is not singular). In Table 5, White is the missing ethnicity category.