Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

You mean like my Palestinian relatives who are "citizens" of that "dEmOCracY" and live in E. Jerusalem? It's PALESTINIAN, not "Arab." Israelis are the ones with the made-up identity. They even erased Arab Jews (including Palestinian Jews) and call all of them "Mizrahi" because that's how despicable Zionism is. A racist ideology from Europe which destroyed PALESTINE and made all PALESTINIAN and other ARAB Jews erase their own identity to please their Ashkenazi interlopers, and then have the audacity to claim the Arab culture and the food is now "iSrAeli."

Well, you've been lied to about the equality. They're given different IDs and even license plates look different so they know it's not Jews in the car. Which is why my family who've been there forever (we've done DNA tests, so we know we're comprised of every 'invader,' not to mention I've laughably had a couple of Israelis here in the US hit on me in Hebrew thinking I was Israeli), are denied the access to certain roads, but an (alleged) rapist like Brett Ratner fleeing US prosecution, can just show up and on day one, gets to use that road which gets you to where you need to be within a few minutes while it takes my 80yo grandfather an hour if he's lucky (with nasty checkpoints along the way), to get to his destination.

It is a virulently racist oppressive country and the fact is that the US media has done everything to deny it for decades because it's no longer up for debate: When you have the likes of David Brooks (whose own son served w/ the IDF), Bret Stephens (who writes articles titled "The Diseased Arab Mind" BEFORE he even got hired by the NYT) and countless others who are unrelenting in their Zionism, but considered "American, unbiased media," then you know why it's my family who gets vilified by people like them who get to control the narrative and conditioned Americans for generations into believing israel "hAS a rIghT tO dEFenD iTsElF" against my grandfather trying to just go to places he was free to do as a child before some Long Island/Russian-born, arrogant, violent 20yo bully got to tell him he couldn't.

Social media has exposed the glaring hypocrisy of MSM and that's why the younger generation isn't "brainwashed" into believing Israel was spreading joy and then some evil Palestinians showed up and ruined all of that "peace." They see the word "killed" reserved for Israelis and "died" for Palestinians. They see the media and the govt simply taking the lies of israel as gospel.

The absolute nerve of some of you in denial about the barbarism, RAPE, torture of Zionist Jews showing up from Europe and they brought terrorism themselves. My God, you have actual documentaries w/ old Zionist Jewish men laughing and bragging about their depravity. Israelis have never been made to feel ashamed or vilified for what they did to STEAL Palestine and being the very reason a Hamas even exists. The pro-Israeli side gets away w/ the most disgusting language (and PROJECTION) about my people along w/ disgusting behavior -- which I know first-hand.

The most accurate quote for Israel and its arrogant, hypocritical defenders: Offended by everything, ashamed of nothing.

You are so mad and there is some stuff that you want really bad! Well your anger and desires are not powerful, they are actually powerless. We can't think or dictate things into being. Israel isn't going to just say welp here is the country so you can have it. So what is your plan? Just be mad for the rest of your life? Only thing you can do to try to solve your problems is start a war. Go for it.

Love the arrogance of this response. It’s almost like the author has forgotten that tides can shift pretty quickly, but why expect anyone to remember events as far back as 80 years ago anyway?

Ok try to start more wars good luck with that. Or just rely on hopes and dreams and the power of your anger.

Should have clarified, DP. Nevertheless, marveling at your attitude about all of this. It's 2024 - if you think Israel armed to the teeth can hold off the inevitability of demographical shifts forever, good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

Palestinians have never been given an option to "opt in", except the 1948 Arabs who managed to avoid expulsion, and a tiny group of East Jerusalemites who have to overcome tremendous hurdles to apply for citizenship.

Non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have equal rights. Stop lying.

What rights do non Jewish Israelis not have? Not being allowed to be buried at a Jewish cemetery? There are Arabs in the Knesset, Arab on the supreme court, Arab muslim ambassadors. Same voting and land owing rights, same access to universities and professions. Let’s talk Lebanon where Palestinians not allowed to own land or be doctors and lawyers .

The right not to have sitting ministers in the cabinet call for their expulsion?

Isn’t this the thread where someone was calling for the expulsion of all dual citizens? And suggesting that politicians with dual citizenship are not loyal to America?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

Palestinians have never been given an option to "opt in", except the 1948 Arabs who managed to avoid expulsion, and a tiny group of East Jerusalemites who have to overcome tremendous hurdles to apply for citizenship.

Non-Jewish citizens of Israel do not have equal rights. Stop lying.

What rights do non Jewish Israelis not have? Not being allowed to be buried at a Jewish cemetery? There are Arabs in the Knesset, Arab on the supreme court, Arab muslim ambassadors. Same voting and land owing rights, same access to universities and professions. Let’s talk Lebanon where Palestinians not allowed to own land or be doctors and lawyers .

The right not to have sitting ministers in the cabinet call for their expulsion?

Isn’t this the thread where someone was calling for the expulsion of all dual citizens? And suggesting that politicians with dual citizenship are not loyal to America?

No one has a right to prevent other people say shot about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

And Israel will still be there. Apartheid will be the only thing that vanishes. Israel needs the west. They will not accept the standard of living they would have absent the United States underwriting their military

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Biden is the G.O.A.T.

All those American bombs put to such fair use. And more coming!

Gimme Gimee.

Bombs Bombs Bombs.

That NYT article on two thousand pounders was awesome.

We're so lucky it's Biden doing it not Trump so we get a free pass.

[Anonymous]

The drone strike in Lebanon was a Game Changer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

And Israel will still be there. Apartheid will be the only thing that vanishes. Israel needs the west. They will not accept the standard of living they would have absent the United States underwriting their military

Yusef, is that still you? You’re still here after all these days arguing with internet strangers about Israel not receiving a penny from the US when Hamas receives billions of aid intended for Palestine? Mummy would be so proud of your tenacity, Yusef.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

And Israel will still be there. Apartheid will be the only thing that vanishes. Israel needs the west. They will not accept the standard of living they would have absent the United States underwriting their military

Yusef, is that still you? You’re still here after all these days arguing with internet strangers about Israel not receiving a penny from the US when Hamas receives billions of aid intended for Palestine? Mummy would be so proud of your tenacity, Yusef.

Reminder: Netanyahu funneled millions to Hamas (via Qatar) so he wouldn't have to deal with the Palestinian Authority's demands for a two-state solution. This has been well-documented. It's a bit hypocritical to accuse outsiders of financially supporting Hamas when it was done by the Israeli government.

[Anonymous]

Whoa. In the drone strike around Beirut, seven key Hamas members were eliminated. It is Unclear Who Is Responsible for the strike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

And Israel will still be there. Apartheid will be the only thing that vanishes. Israel needs the west. They will not accept the standard of living they would have absent the United States underwriting their military

Yusef, is that still you? You’re still here after all these days arguing with internet strangers about Israel not receiving a penny from the US when Hamas receives billions of aid intended for Palestine? Mummy would be so proud of your tenacity, Yusef.

Reminder: Netanyahu funneled millions to Hamas (via Qatar) so he wouldn't have to deal with the Palestinian Authority's demands for a two-state solution. This has been well-documented. It's a bit hypocritical to accuse outsiders of financially supporting Hamas when it was done by the Israeli government.

genocide Joe is the last of the generation of democrats who will blindly support Israel. There will be a time when they will either need a new benefactor or to live within their means

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

And Israel will still be there. Apartheid will be the only thing that vanishes. Israel needs the west. They will not accept the standard of living they would have absent the United States underwriting their military

Yusef, is that still you? You’re still here after all these days arguing with internet strangers about Israel not receiving a penny from the US when Hamas receives billions of aid intended for Palestine? Mummy would be so proud of your tenacity, Yusef.

Reminder: Netanyahu funneled millions to Hamas (via Qatar) so he wouldn't have to deal with the Palestinian Authority's demands for a two-state solution. This has been well-documented. It's a bit hypocritical to accuse outsiders of financially supporting Hamas when it was done by the Israeli government.

OK, nutjob.

No one here is interested in your ridiculous conspiracy theories. You can go back to Q-anon now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

And Israel will still be there. Apartheid will be the only thing that vanishes. Israel needs the west. They will not accept the standard of living they would have absent the United States underwriting their military

Yusef, is that still you? You’re still here after all these days arguing with internet strangers about Israel not receiving a penny from the US when Hamas receives billions of aid intended for Palestine? Mummy would be so proud of your tenacity, Yusef.

Reminder: Netanyahu funneled millions to Hamas (via Qatar) so he wouldn't have to deal with the Palestinian Authority's demands for a two-state solution. This has been well-documented. It's a bit hypocritical to accuse outsiders of financially supporting Hamas when it was done by the Israeli government.

OK, nutjob.

No one here is interested in your ridiculous conspiracy theories. You can go back to Q-anon now.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/middleeast/qatar-hamas-funds-israel-backing-intl/index.html

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article-opinion/.premium/a-brief-history-of-the-netanyahu-hamas-alliance/0000018b-47d9-d242-abef-57ff1be90000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Look, there are almost 2 million Arabs living in Israel - about 20% of the country's population. And no one is proposing to throw them out. They are living there peacefully.

The Palestinians in Gaza WERE able to come and go when they had jobs in Israel or needed medical treatment, or all kinds of other things. But I don't know why you would think that it would ever make sense to fold Gaza into Israel. Who in the world would actually want that? You think the Palestinians who are angry to the point of rape and slaughter about Israel existing at all, want to live under Israeli rule?! You think this is a plan that should be proposed? "Hey, you keep saying 'from the river to the sea' and 'death to all Jews' - but wanna come join our country?"

I don't know why you think this is a gotcha.

Ah yes, the 2 million Arabs in Israel, the "1948 Arabs", the 20% of the total Arab population in 1948 that escaped deportation, Jewish militias or super-ardent Zionists who thought we no needo no Arabs in Eretz Israel, that ain't what good lord promised!

I'll leave the discussion of "nobody wants to throw them out" (guess what! some do!) or "they are completely equal to Israeli Jews!" (guess what! they aren't!) for another day. Better people than me have days jobs that focus exclusively on cataloguing that type of inequality. But a few facts for the readers:

"In the aftermath of the 1947–49 Palestine war, of the estimated 950,000 Arabs that lived in the territory that became Israel before the war, over 80% fled or were expelled and 20%, some 156,000, remained.[31] Arab citizens of Israel today are largely composed of the people who remained and their descendants. Others include some from the Gaza Strip and the West Bank who procured Israeli citizenship under family-unification provisions made significantly more stringent in the aftermath of the Second Intifada.[32]

While most Arabs remaining in Israel were granted citizenship, they were subject to martial law in the early years of the state.[33][34] Zionism had given little serious thought as to how to integrate Arabs, and according to Ian Lustick subsequent policies were 'implemented by a rigorous regime of military rule that dominated what remained of the Arab population in territory ruled by Israel, enabling the state to expropriate most Arab-owned land, severely limit its access to investment capital and employment opportunity, and eliminate virtually all opportunities to use citizenship as a vehicle for gaining political influence'.[35] Travel permits, curfews, administrative detentions, and expulsions were part of life until 1966.

I want to remind you that this discussion was brought on by the post lamenting "why can't Gazans integrate peacefully into Israeli society like other Arabs who live in Israel!" The "gotcha" part is that in fact, this integration, i.e. citizenship, has never, ever, ever been made available to ANY ARAB OUTSIDE OF "1948 ARABS, that is, the 20% that escaped deportation in 1948. Never since then. Not once.

Don't talk about being able to "come and go". Libraries can be filled with stories by the people whose lives were derailed by random rejections at checkpoints, inordinately long wait times, lost opportunities to travel, do business, receive an education, perform or play sports at the global stage.

How about Arabs in East Jerusalem and the Golan who are able to apply for citizenship?

yes how about them?

Just 5 Percent of E. Jerusalem Palestinians Have Received Israeli Citizenship Since 1967
Since 1967, over 14,000 Palestinians living in East Jerusalem have had their residency status revoked, something that cannot be done to citizens
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-05-29/ty-article/why-so-few-palestinians-from-jerusalem-have-israeli-citizenship/00000181-0c46-d090-abe1-ed7fefc20000

The lack of Israeli citizenship has many implications. Without it, East Jerusalem Palestinians cannot vote in Israeli legislative elections or obtain an Israeli passport. To travel abroad they must apply for a temporary travel document (laissez passer). Some jobs are not open to non-citizens. Most importantly, their residency status can be revoked, unlike citizens. This has happened to over 14,000 Palestinians since 1967, mostly due to information showing that the center of their life was not in Jerusalem. With the loss of resident status, they lose their health insurance, livelihood and even the right to enter Jerusalem.

Over the years, the Interior Ministry has given various and sundry reasons for denying citizenship to Palestinians. This includes a family member owning land or having an electricity bill in the West Bank, or a failed short Hebrew test, or a small criminal file that was closed years ago. In one case, a person was denied because his wife, who is an Israeli citizen, published a post that mentioned the Nakba. Another person was denied because their social media profile photo showed a Palestinian flag, even though there was an Israeli flag alongside it. For many years, the ministry ignored a clause making the process easier by allowing for an expedited process for people under 21, denying applications made on the basis of this clause.

Just proves that your assertion that only those who remained after 1948 were able to get citizenship is wrong and your “has never ever been available” is also wrong.

Just proves that you have zero understanding of context surrounding the so-called "eligibility" of East Jerusalemites.

Just proves that you were caught in a lie and now trying to weasel out of it.

What? The poster said, "why can't Arabs from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israeli society, like other Arabs in Israel". Tell me. How can an Arab from Gaza peacefully integrate into the Israel society, i.e. move to Israel and obtain citizenship? I'll wait.

No the poster said that Arabs have never been offered Israeli citizenship since 1948 which is a lie. Citizens of Gaza do not want to be citizens of Israel. Why do you infantilize them with your white superiority complex and think that you know best? They want their own country they don’t want to be Israelis. You all keep yelling about colonization but then think that you can tell these Gazans what they should be doing. Again, they don’t want to be Israelis.

Does any of what you just said matter? Israel and the Zionists supporting Israel's right to maintain a Jewish identity have made it abundantly clear that a non-Jewish population with equal rights (voting, by way of example) could never be allowed. Based on that fact, suggesting that non-Jewish citizens of Gaza or the West Bank could simply "opt in" to Israeli citizenship seems dishonest.

What's a lie is suggesting non-Jewish people cannot be Israeli citizens. That is patently false. There are MILLIONS of Israeli citizens with equal rights, who are Palestinian Arab Muslims, Christians and so on. And, Palestinians have in the past been given the option to opt in. They reject it, they throw it away.

It's almost like Israel is an apartheid state that shouldn't have a right to exist in its current form

fantasies.

Says who? Who determines what states can and cannot exist? Who has the power to make it not exist? Has it broken the laws of physics somehow and become an impossibility? No.
You don't want it to exist, that is a different story. Some want it to exist. So that is that.
If for some reason it did not exist anymore, why not then make it a nation for Christians? Red heads? Mongols? No inherent reason for it to belong to any one group.

You saw how long South Africa lasted once the west started pulling support

Ahem South Africa is still there.

As are so many other countries with zero support from the "west."

And Israel will still be there. Apartheid will be the only thing that vanishes. Israel needs the west. They will not accept the standard of living they would have absent the United States underwriting their military

Yusef, is that still you? You’re still here after all these days arguing with internet strangers about Israel not receiving a penny from the US when Hamas receives billions of aid intended for Palestine? Mummy would be so proud of your tenacity, Yusef.

Reminder: Netanyahu funneled millions to Hamas (via Qatar) so he wouldn't have to deal with the Palestinian Authority's demands for a two-state solution. This has been well-documented. It's a bit hypocritical to accuse outsiders of financially supporting Hamas when it was done by the Israeli government.

Reminder: much more recently than that Biden funneled millions to the PA and Hamas and billions to Qatar and Iran, the main supporters of Hamas.