Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep. This is all on the Army. They killed 64 people.

+1 There’s no excuse for a non-essential flight putting civilians at risk.

They can practice that route at midnight, when no commercial flights are landing - which is just like if we were evacuating anyway because those flights would be diverted.

Most countries evacuate their key persons well before announcing an issue.

Look who China got out during winter break when COVID came out. Everyone else “found out” in mid February.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the coverup has started. NSTB said thst NSTB instructed Blackhawk to go behind plane BUT. There was a a possibility that BH didn't receive message!

Because a button was pressed (in ATC or the by??) or was held down. Weird.

Still had two prior descriptors of what was happening that the BH took visual responsibility for

Didn’t we all learn how to use walker talkies in elementary school? Yeah, you can’t get an incoming message if you’re depressing Talk all the time.

Besides, what were they saying inside the BH not on radio talk. Did they disclose that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The way I read it on Wapo, at the moment ATC was giving instructions to go behind the aircraft, the BH was holding down a button to speak to ATC, so they were both speaking at the same time. The ATC's instructions were not heard on the blackbox of the BH, so it is assumed those didnt' go through. These were the last instructions like 15 seconds before impact, not before that.

What was the BH communicating then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also read that the may not have heard that the plane had changed runways (and therefore approach).

Twice? 4 and 2 minutes before they collided? wtf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also read that the may not have heard that the plane had changed runways (and therefore approach).

What does that mean? They hear half a message twice yet say Yes we have visuals?

Hopefully the written report isn’t so badly written or ambiguous as the press coverage of the press conference. The technicals matter, as usual.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problems that all lined up tragically:

Number one issue: Crowded airport with helicopters crossing into the flight paths of landing jets with little clearance room. This was standard, yes, but it diminishes room for human error or other issues, which needs to always be assumed in safety analysis. I can only aasume this will change after this incident

Plane was switched to a different run way and did a little turn that brought it into the black Hawks flight path

The new runway was shorter than the original runway and so the planes descent was likely steeper than if they’d landed on the original run way- again, bringing it into thr Blackhawk path at the worst moment

Plane and Blackhawk were talking to the same controller but on different frequencies so couldn’t hear each other or gain any sort of awareness that way

Blackhawk pilots likely had on night vision goggles which significantly reduces one’s field of vision and with city lights was probably distracting rather than helpful

Whelp, if ATC telling them the jet and runway two or three times and then to go around the landing plane can't help the Black Hawk then they need to be grounded during 6am to 12 midnight around Wash DC.

There already were many stop gaps: Radar, Navs, ATC directions and warnings, 3 people in the helo looking around or piloting, maintenance checks every time, jet had blinking wing lights to land plus landing floodlight, laminated Zone 1 flight requirements in the helo and route book, etc.

I am curious if the CRJ, at any point of landing, was told there was a Black Hawk traveling south on an intersecting route, albeit at different altitudes.

I feel experienced pilots would have aborted the landing based on that alone. Just general untrust of part-time military pilots or cowboy mentality.

Straight up bs. Your assumptions about military pilots are ignorant. Cowboy mentality? You watch too many bad movies.

Where’s the hours and flying frequency of Army BH pilots versus navy, marine and Air Force BH pilots?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problems that all lined up tragically:

Number one issue: Crowded airport with helicopters crossing into the flight paths of landing jets with little clearance room. This was standard, yes, but it diminishes room for human error or other issues, which needs to always be assumed in safety analysis. I can only aasume this will change after this incident

Plane was switched to a different run way and did a little turn that brought it into the black Hawks flight path

The new runway was shorter than the original runway and so the planes descent was likely steeper than if they’d landed on the original run way- again, bringing it into thr Blackhawk path at the worst moment

Plane and Blackhawk were talking to the same controller but on different frequencies so couldn’t hear each other or gain any sort of awareness that way

Blackhawk pilots likely had on night vision goggles which significantly reduces one’s field of vision and with city lights was probably distracting rather than helpful

Whelp, if ATC telling them the jet and runway two or three times and then to go around the landing plane can't help the Black Hawk then they need to be grounded during 6am to 12 midnight around Wash DC.

There already were many stop gaps: Radar, Navs, ATC directions and warnings, 3 people in the helo looking around or piloting, maintenance checks every time, jet had blinking wing lights to land plus landing floodlight, laminated Zone 1 flight requirements in the helo and route book, etc.

I am curious if the CRJ, at any point of landing, was told there was a Black Hawk traveling south on an intersecting route, albeit at different altitudes.

I feel experienced pilots would have aborted the landing based on that alone. Just general untrust of part-time military pilots or cowboy mentality.

Straight up bs. Your assumptions about military pilots are ignorant. Cowboy mentality? You watch too many bad movies.

Many commercial pilots who land at DCA have come out and said if they hear of or see a BH flying the river route they do a fly by and get back in the landing queue. Just not having it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This has brought to light some huge failures in pilot training. I think it’s fair to consider is this is related to intentionally filling more women into these roles that were previously closed. Did that alter training standards? Or is it something else that has caused this massive training failure? Is it that they were trained properly but the culture has changed pilots go off script and don’t follow standards because they feel over confident- and that’s become acceptable?

But the pilots of Vietnam could fly their bullet ridden low tech helicopters through gun fire, landing with ease between close trees,
where staying on the ground for seconds longer than absolutely necessary means low survival. I think it’s care training standards have changed as well as acceptable practices when out of flight school

What absolute horse shite. That you assume any woman pilot is less competent tells us everything about you. Take your project 2025 crap and shove it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problems that all lined up tragically:

Number one issue: Crowded airport with helicopters crossing into the flight paths of landing jets with little clearance room. This was standard, yes, but it diminishes room for human error or other issues, which needs to always be assumed in safety analysis. I can only aasume this will change after this incident

Plane was switched to a different run way and did a little turn that brought it into the black Hawks flight path

The new runway was shorter than the original runway and so the planes descent was likely steeper than if they’d landed on the original run way- again, bringing it into thr Blackhawk path at the worst moment

Plane and Blackhawk were talking to the same controller but on different frequencies so couldn’t hear each other or gain any sort of awareness that way

Blackhawk pilots likely had on night vision goggles which significantly reduces one’s field of vision and with city lights was probably distracting rather than helpful

Whelp, if ATC telling them the jet and runway two or three times and then to go around the landing plane can't help the Black Hawk then they need to be grounded during 6am to 12 midnight around Wash DC.

There already were many stop gaps: Radar, Navs, ATC directions and warnings, 3 people in the helo looking around or piloting, maintenance checks every time, jet had blinking wing lights to land plus landing floodlight, laminated Zone 1 flight requirements in the helo and route book, etc.

I am curious if the CRJ, at any point of landing, was told there was a Black Hawk traveling south on an intersecting route, albeit at different altitudes.

I feel experienced pilots would have aborted the landing based on that alone. Just general untrust of part-time military pilots or cowboy mentality.

Straight up bs. Your assumptions about military pilots are ignorant. Cowboy mentality? You watch too many bad movies.

Many commercial pilots who land at DCA have come out and said if they hear of or see a BH flying the river route they do a fly by and get back in the landing queue. Just not having it.

Because they don't think a couple hundred feet of separation is sufficiently safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A shocking compilation of ineptitude from the people on that Blackhawk. This is the best of the best? Can’t keep their altitude correct, can’t operate with night vision goggles, can’t spot airplanes, can’t work their radio? Baffling.

Yeah, I can’t help but agree. There needs to be a hard look at who they accept into flight school, the graduation standards, what is being taught,
and are they continuing to fly how they were trained or at some point does the flying culture deem is acceptable to go by one’s owns rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has brought to light some huge failures in pilot training. I think it’s fair to consider is this is related to intentionally filling more women into these roles that were previously closed. Did that alter training standards? Or is it something else that has caused this massive training failure? Is it that they were trained properly but the culture has changed pilots go off script and don’t follow standards because they feel over confident- and that’s become acceptable?

But the pilots of Vietnam could fly their bullet ridden low tech helicopters through gun fire, landing with ease between close trees,
where staying on the ground for seconds longer than absolutely necessary means low survival. I think it’s care training standards have changed as well as acceptable practices when out of flight school

What absolute horse shite. That you assume any woman pilot is less competent tells us everything about you. Take your project 2025 crap and shove it.

It’s not any woman pilot. It’s this specific woman pilot. With this many errors, it’s fair to question how they select flight candidates and what graduation qualifications are. Were they mandated to graduate a certain amount of women? I don’t know. But clearly the wrong pilots were in the helicopter and it speaks to bigger issues inside Army training and standards. Perhaps it isn’t DEI and is wide spread poor training, but it’s a fair question to ask

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A shocking compilation of ineptitude from the people on that Blackhawk. This is the best of the best? Can’t keep their altitude correct, can’t operate with night vision goggles, can’t spot airplanes, can’t work their radio? Baffling.

Yeah, I can’t help but agree. There needs to be a hard look at who they accept into flight school, the graduation standards, what is being taught,
and are they continuing to fly how they were trained or at some point does the flying culture deem is acceptable to go by one’s owns rules.

Your focus is on the wrong place. It should be on the flight traffic and rules for visual separation. Safety standards clearly need to be adjusted.

Fwiw American military pilots are known as the best trained pilots in the world. Man and woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A shocking compilation of ineptitude from the people on that Blackhawk. This is the best of the best? Can’t keep their altitude correct, can’t operate with night vision goggles, can’t spot airplanes, can’t work their radio? Baffling.

Yeah, I can’t help but agree. There needs to be a hard look at who they accept into flight school, the graduation standards, what is being taught,
and are they continuing to fly how they were trained or at some point does the flying culture deem is acceptable to go by one’s owns rules.

Your focus is on the wrong place. It should be on the flight traffic and rules for visual separation. Safety standards clearly need to be adjusted.

Fwiw American military pilots are known as the best trained pilots in the world. Man and woman.

Well, not anymore. Sorry you cannot excuse away the multiple errors they made. This isn’t the fault of air traffic rules, this completely on their failure to fly and operate the helicopter properly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A shocking compilation of ineptitude from the people on that Blackhawk. This is the best of the best? Can’t keep their altitude correct, can’t operate with night vision goggles, can’t spot airplanes, can’t work their radio? Baffling.

Yeah, I can’t help but agree. There needs to be a hard look at who they accept into flight school, the graduation standards, what is being taught,
and are they continuing to fly how they were trained or at some point does the flying culture deem is acceptable to go by one’s owns rules.

Also. It matters how “freshly you are in the cockpit. 500 hrs of flight time spread over 10 years is a different experience than over 3 or 5 years. Intensity and muscle memory matters, especially when most of the month you are doing totally different Army duties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Problems that all lined up tragically:

Number one issue: Crowded airport with helicopters crossing into the flight paths of landing jets with little clearance room. This was standard, yes, but it diminishes room for human error or other issues, which needs to always be assumed in safety analysis. I can only aasume this will change after this incident

Plane was switched to a different run way and did a little turn that brought it into the black Hawks flight path

The new runway was shorter than the original runway and so the planes descent was likely steeper than if they’d landed on the original run way- again, bringing it into thr Blackhawk path at the worst moment

Plane and Blackhawk were talking to the same controller but on different frequencies so couldn’t hear each other or gain any sort of awareness that way

Blackhawk pilots likely had on night vision goggles which significantly reduces one’s field of vision and with city lights was probably distracting rather than helpful

Whelp, if ATC telling them the jet and runway two or three times and then to go around the landing plane can't help the Black Hawk then they need to be grounded during 6am to 12 midnight around Wash DC.

There already were many stop gaps: Radar, Navs, ATC directions and warnings, 3 people in the helo looking around or piloting, maintenance checks every time, jet had blinking wing lights to land plus landing floodlight, laminated Zone 1 flight requirements in the helo and route book, etc.

I am curious if the CRJ, at any point of landing, was told there was a Black Hawk traveling south on an intersecting route, albeit at different altitudes.

I feel experienced pilots would have aborted the landing based on that alone. Just general untrust of part-time military pilots or cowboy mentality.

Straight up bs. Your assumptions about military pilots are ignorant. Cowboy mentality? You watch too many bad movies.

Where’s the hours and flying frequency of Army BH pilots versus navy, marine and Air Force BH pilots?

Key point of differentiation. Navy and AF has the best and most experienced, focused pilots. They don’t run their active Blackhawk programs like reserves programs. Many had pilot licenses before plus were IPs out of the gate upon joining.