Biden wants RTO

[Anonymous]

If telework (3 days a week) was in place pre-COVID, will that remain the same or do you think the expectation will be in person 5 days a week?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for a economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.

You don’t know politics obviously. That’s not how it works. COS speaks for the president.

No they don’t.

So, you think Zients sent this out without Biden's blessing? Only 15 months before the election?

Could care less what Zients sent out. He has ABSOLUTELY ZERO authority over agency heads. The President does though and if this were an issue he would speak out on it. I guarantee there will be no significant impact from this announcement. If you think we Feds will RTO from this memo, I have a bridge to sell you.
It’s obvious you have no idea how politics work.

I am a pro-WFH but, as much as I want you to be right, I think you are wrong. COS is COO of Biden administration. You really shouldn't "guarantee" something you know nothing about.

Whatever. Again , if it was an issue President Biden would have spoken on it. It’s not an issue though and this is why it was staff that pushed out the memo. And if there’s any confusion, I GUARANTEE that there will be no significant RTO in the District.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for a economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.

You don’t know politics obviously. That’s not how it works. COS speaks for the president.

No they don’t.

So, you think Zients sent this out without Biden's blessing? Only 15 months before the election?

Could care less what Zients sent out. He has ABSOLUTELY ZERO authority over agency heads. The President does though and if this were an issue he would speak out on it. I guarantee there will be no significant impact from this announcement. If you think we Feds will RTO from this memo, I have a bridge to sell you.
It’s obvious you have no idea how politics work.

I am a pro-WFH but, as much as I want you to be right, I think you are wrong. COS is COO of Biden administration. You really shouldn't "guarantee" something you know nothing about.

Whatever. Again , if it was an issue President Biden would have spoken on it. It’s not an issue though and this is why it was staff that pushed out the memo. And if there’s any confusion, I GUARANTEE that there will be no significant RTO in the District.

ok that's enough. you are not worth my time

[Anonymous]

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.


False. My neighbor works for HHS. They’re basically expected to RTO normally by end of year. Well, at least that’s what she told me the other day while I was out mowing my lawn.

Even if so, isn't that like 2 days a week for some divisions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.


False. My neighbor works for HHS. They’re basically expected to RTO normally by end of year. Well, at least that’s what she told me the other day while I was out mowing my lawn.

Even if so, isn't that like 2 days a week for some divisions?

My program (different mid-sized agency) is talking 3 days a week to keep your office. No one talked about it for many months but, all of sudden, it's on the table again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.


False. My neighbor works for HHS. They’re basically expected to RTO normally by end of year. Well, at least that’s what she told me the other day while I was out mowing my lawn.

Even if so, isn't that like 2 days a week for some divisions?

My program (different mid-sized agency) is talking 3 days a week to keep your office. No one talked about it for many months but, all of sudden, it's on the table again.

It isn’t going to happen. The genie is out of the bottle (wrt WFH) and as pointed out above the cos has no authority to order agency rto. Mayor Bowser will still be demanding to know where feds are a year from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for an economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Oh please. Federal employees working remotely do not have the power to tank the economy. Lol!!! The histrionics are hilarious.

Clearly you missed what Bowser is crying about. DC is in deep do with budget shortfalls starting in 2024.

She is desperate for feds to return. The metro is also losing massive amounts of money due to wfh.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/cfo-warns-dc-tax-revenue-to-drop-by-464m-budget-cuts-to-follow/3289228/

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/20/bowser-biden-federal-workers-washington-dc-00078677

https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/metro-projects-750-million-deficit-which-could-lead-to-reduction-in-bus-rail-service/


Anyone saying feds wfh aren’t problematic for DC and commercial RE is delusional. This same kind of story is playing out across the country. Commercial RE is in dire straits. Once a bank collapses due to huge losses it will be contagion. Localities are going to up sh!ts creek without a paddle as their tax base abruptly implodes, since they’ve built budgets based on commercial RE values that no longer exist.

Sure. But ordering feds back is like throwing a rock into a rushing stream. It’s not going to do much.

Commercial real estate won’t come back so long as the backbone of the US economy is small and medium businesses, many of which have realized enormous cost savings by moving to remote work.

That depends on the size of the rock.

Literally every single fed across the country could be ordered back to being in office (not even physically possible now), and that rock isn’t going to do much in the face of the stream. There is simply too much money being saved by other businesses.

The stream is not stopping. Cushman & Wakefield and JLL, two giant brokerages, just announced enormous losses in their recent earnings calls. As an example Cushman’s net income last quarter was $5.1 million, which is down from $97.2 million in the second quarter of 2022. That is a devastating change. This is post-pandemic loss: businesses are just not renewing leases. Why should all these small and midsized businesses take a huge hit to profits for the sake of large commercial real estate interests and mismanaged cities?

Biden can order workers back for whatever reason he wants. But it’s not going to do anything to stop the profound societal change that has already happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for a economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Biden didn’t order Feds to RTO. A member of his staff wrote a lukewarm memo. If the President was serious about RTO, he could simply demand tomorrow all feds report. By the way it’s not the responsibility of the good citizens of MD an VA to prop up the District’s economy. I guarantee you that a month from now commuting into DC will be unchanged from what it’s been over the past 18 months. No agency head is going to give two cents to what Zients says.

False. My neighbor works for HHS. They’re basically expected to RTO normally by end of year. Well, at least that’s what she told me the other day while I was out mowing my lawn.

Was it CY or FY? My agency head said the same thing but wasn't clear whether he meant CY or FY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for an economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Oh please. Federal employees working remotely do not have the power to tank the economy. Lol!!! The histrionics are hilarious.

Clearly you missed what Bowser is crying about. DC is in deep do with budget shortfalls starting in 2024.

She is desperate for feds to return. The metro is also losing massive amounts of money due to wfh.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/cfo-warns-dc-tax-revenue-to-drop-by-464m-budget-cuts-to-follow/3289228/

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/20/bowser-biden-federal-workers-washington-dc-00078677

https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/metro-projects-750-million-deficit-which-could-lead-to-reduction-in-bus-rail-service/


Anyone saying feds wfh aren’t problematic for DC and commercial RE is delusional. This same kind of story is playing out across the country. Commercial RE is in dire straits. Once a bank collapses due to huge losses it will be contagion. Localities are going to up sh!ts creek without a paddle as their tax base abruptly implodes, since they’ve built budgets based on commercial RE values that no longer exist.

Sure. But ordering feds back is like throwing a rock into a rushing stream. It’s not going to do much.

Commercial real estate won’t come back so long as the backbone of the US economy is small and medium businesses, many of which have realized enormous cost savings by moving to remote work.

This. It is amusing to watch people try to suck the toothpaste back into the tube though.

[Anonymous]

Even if so, isn't that like 2 days a week for some divisions?


My program (different mid-sized agency) is talking 3 days a week to keep your office. No one talked about it for many months but, all of sudden, it's on the table again.

So you could go in somewhat less often but give up your office? That doesn't necessarily seem unfair to me, if people are going in less often it makes sense to give up space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the country cannot tolerate WFH.

Banks are sh!tting bricks right now about huge losses they would be on the hook for as commercial real estate values tank due to WFH. City govts across the country are also in deep dookie as they are losing massive amounts of tax revenue due to commercial real estate vacancies. Converting offices to living space doesn’t solve the problem either, because local govts get 2x the amount of tax revenue from commercial RE as they do from residential.

Biden is moving t push fir RTO because our banking overlords will losing trillions of dollars due to huge losses in commercial RE value. Tons of local govts will also go bankrupt and spiral into insolvency. SF has now blown up its budget and is running almost $1B in the red now. DC warned the same, and is almost $500M in the red over the coming years due to huge losses in tax revenue from office vacancies. Our entire stupid system is built upon RE speculation, thus when the model gets completely upended the country is now at dire risk for a massive black swan event that will crater the economy. All it is going to take is one bank going belly up and citing commercial RE losses for an economic maelstrom to be unleashed.

Oh please. Federal employees working remotely do not have the power to tank the economy. Lol!!! The histrionics are hilarious.

Clearly you missed what Bowser is crying about. DC is in deep do with budget shortfalls starting in 2024.

She is desperate for feds to return. The metro is also losing massive amounts of money due to wfh.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/cfo-warns-dc-tax-revenue-to-drop-by-464m-budget-cuts-to-follow/3289228/

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/01/20/bowser-biden-federal-workers-washington-dc-00078677

https://www.dcnewsnow.com/news/local-news/washington-dc/metro-projects-750-million-deficit-which-could-lead-to-reduction-in-bus-rail-service/


Anyone saying feds wfh aren’t problematic for DC and commercial RE is delusional. This same kind of story is playing out across the country. Commercial RE is in dire straits. Once a bank collapses due to huge losses it will be contagion. Localities are going to up sh!ts creek without a paddle as their tax base abruptly implodes, since they’ve built budgets based on commercial RE values that no longer exist.

Sure. But ordering feds back is like throwing a rock into a rushing stream. It’s not going to do much.

Commercial real estate won’t come back so long as the backbone of the US economy is small and medium businesses, many of which have realized enormous cost savings by moving to remote work.

This. It is amusing to watch people try to suck the toothpaste back into the tube though.

Yeah, there is quite an unwillingness to accept reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Even if so, isn't that like 2 days a week for some divisions?


My program (different mid-sized agency) is talking 3 days a week to keep your office. No one talked about it for many months but, all of sudden, it's on the table again.

So you could go in somewhat less often but give up your office? That doesn't necessarily seem unfair to me, if people are going in less often it makes sense to give up space.

PP you are responding to... Yeah, I agree. I think it's fair. I just hope they offer us an option to go in less than 3 days (providing I give up my office). I don't know if that option will be available though.

[Anonymous]

Kvetch all you want, but Feds are going to be in office 3 days per week by 1Q2024. Sure, it's not going to be enough to "save CRE." But vast majority of large companies and organizations are back in person for a meaningful part of the week. The Federal government is a similarly large organization.

It is what it is. Make peace with with it. Accept it. Make a plan to deal with it, or start polishing that resume.

-Fed currently in the office 4 days/week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kvetch all you want, but Feds are going to be in office 3 days per week by 1Q2024. Sure, it's not going to be enough to "save CRE." But vast majority of large companies and organizations are back in person for a meaningful part of the week. The Federal government is a similarly large organization.

It is what it is. Make peace with with it. Accept it. Make a plan to deal with it, or start polishing that resume.

-Fed currently in the office 4 days/week

I disagree with the number of days per week, but agree about the return to office. It will vary by agency. Pre covid our managers were in 3 days and staff 2. I can't see that increasing due to space limitations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kvetch all you want, but Feds are going to be in office 3 days per week by 1Q2024. Sure, it's not going to be enough to "save CRE." But vast majority of large companies and organizations are back in person for a meaningful part of the week. The Federal government is a similarly large organization.

It is what it is. Make peace with with it. Accept it. Make a plan to deal with it, or start polishing that resume.

-Fed currently in the office 4 days/week

I know a lot of us who were in the office fewer than 3 days per week even before COVID. Telework was popular with many agencies before this became a trend. We don’t have physical office space for everyone even if they wanted us back that many days. So I think it depends on your agency’s history and whether in office vs telework was the culture before.