Confused about math(s) now

[Anonymous]

While trying to follow the other topic, I got confused about Common core math, Curriculum 2.0 math, college ready math, ...

What do they mean? Are they the same? If not, which is better?

After googling around, I found that there was a person named Jason Zimba. He said Common Core math was a minimum definition of college readiness and was not for "STEM" "selective colleges". Maybe even "international market" "economics" "business".

Is it really true that given only a small amount of kids went to some special programs, most of kids will be not ready for things like STEM, economics, business, selective colleges and international market?

[Anonymous]

How could ANY curriculum make "most kids" prepared for, say, selective colleges?

I'm neither a common core fan nor detractor--I just think no single curriculum is going to make every student a top student.

[Anonymous]

With the current standards in the state of MD, many kids who go to college need to take remedial math, so the standards they were exposed to didn't even prepare them for community college.

The Common Core standards for high school seem to be pretty basic -- algebra, statistics, geometry.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math

There's no trig, precal, calculus. I assume advanced students with a serious interest in STEM would be accelerated at some point to study precalculus and perhaps calculus before graduation, by taking AP classes. But there's no need for the majority of students to take those classes in high school -- not even for a career in business of finance. If they need the coursework they can take it in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How could ANY curriculum make "most kids" prepared for, say, selective colleges?

I'm neither a common core fan nor detractor--I just think no single curriculum is going to make every student a top student.

Make sense. Then, I think that a valid question is what the right expectation should be. 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%? Note that there is a large well-educated population in this area. The top 10% / 20% kids here is way above top 10% / 20% in many other places.

If Common Core math is only about the minimum college readiness as someone suggested, what could be strategies to reach the expectation?

[Anonymous]

AP Calculus?

[Anonymous]

But don't they do the IB in many schools, like BCC? how does this relate to common core?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With the current standards in the state of MD, many kids who go to college need to take remedial math, so the standards they were exposed to didn't even prepare them for community college.

The Common Core standards for high school seem to be pretty basic -- algebra, statistics, geometry.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math

There's no trig, precal, calculus. I assume advanced students with a serious interest in STEM would be accelerated at some point to study precalculus and perhaps calculus before graduation, by taking AP classes. But there's no need for the majority of students to take those classes in high school -- not even for a career in business of finance. If they need the coursework they can take it in college.

You are mixing up standards, classes, and curricula.

If it's true that many high school graduates in Maryland have to take remedial math in college, that's not a standards issue -- that's an issue of what they learned in the classes they took.

Also, the Common Core is standards -- what students should know and be able to do -- not a series of classes. The standards include things students usually learn in algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and pre-calculus, as well as statistics and probability.

You can look up the content knowledge for the Common Core standards in high school is here:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/note-on-courses-transitions/courses-transitions/

Finally, the Common Core is the Common CORE, not the Common Limit. There is nothing in the Common Core that says: here is what you should know and be able to do, AND NOT ONE THING MORE.

[Anonymous]

Curriculum 2.0 aims to get most kids to Algebra in 8th grade which takes them to 1 AP math class in HS. 2 for kids in compacted math. That seems pretty good to me. If a child is truly math focused they can double up on math in HS or take a summer class to go farther. How much college level math are you looking for OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With the current standards in the state of MD, many kids who go to college need to take remedial math, so the standards they were exposed to didn't even prepare them for community college.

The Common Core standards for high school seem to be pretty basic -- algebra, statistics, geometry.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math

There's no trig, precal, calculus. I assume advanced students with a serious interest in STEM would be accelerated at some point to study precalculus and perhaps calculus before graduation, by taking AP classes. But there's no need for the majority of students to take those classes in high school -- not even for a career in business of finance. If they need the coursework they can take it in college.

I don't know about that... I graduated from BCC a little over 10 years ago having taken IB calc, and tested into Calc III for college. Obviously not all kids are taking IB, but I think all MoCo high schools offer AP, some AP and IB. While some kids may need it, I wouldn't expect that "many" kids need remedial classes to get through college, even with these curriculum changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the current standards in the state of MD, many kids who go to college need to take remedial math, so the standards they were exposed to didn't even prepare them for community college.

The Common Core standards for high school seem to be pretty basic -- algebra, statistics, geometry.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math

There's no trig, precal, calculus. I assume advanced students with a serious interest in STEM would be accelerated at some point to study precalculus and perhaps calculus before graduation, by taking AP classes. But there's no need for the majority of students to take those classes in high school -- not even for a career in business of finance. If they need the coursework they can take it in college.

I don't know about that... I graduated from BCC a little over 10 years ago having taken IB calc, and tested into Calc III for college. Obviously not all kids are taking IB, but I think all MoCo high schools offer AP, some AP and IB. While some kids may need it, I wouldn't expect that "many" kids need remedial classes to get through college, even with these curriculum changes.

If you take calculus in high school, odds are good you will not need to take remedial math in college.

However, many MD high school graduates DO enter college needing to take basic math remediation. I.e. they are not "college ready" for math despite having a high school diploma.

"This trend has been reported in Maryland where nearly one-third of even the best-prepared high school graduates require mathematics remediation in college. Worse, the problem seems to be increasing: The need for remedial mathematics among Maryland students who take a college-preparatory curriculum in high school and attend Maryland colleges has increased from 23 percent in 1997 to 32 percent in 2007.2 These rates vary across districts and student subgroups, and for some subgroups of students, the most recently reported remediation rate is as high as 69 percent."

http://www.math.jhu.edu/~wsw/ED/Abell0904.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the current standards in the state of MD, many kids who go to college need to take remedial math, so the standards they were exposed to didn't even prepare them for community college.

The Common Core standards for high school seem to be pretty basic -- algebra, statistics, geometry.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math

There's no trig, precal, calculus. I assume advanced students with a serious interest in STEM would be accelerated at some point to study precalculus and perhaps calculus before graduation, by taking AP classes. But there's no need for the majority of students to take those classes in high school -- not even for a career in business of finance. If they need the coursework they can take it in college.

You are mixing up standards, classes, and curricula.

If it's true that many high school graduates in Maryland have to take remedial math in college, that's not a standards issue -- that's an issue of what they learned in the classes they took.

Also, the Common Core is standards -- what students should know and be able to do -- not a series of classes. The standards include things students usually learn in algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and pre-calculus, as well as statistics and probability.

You can look up the content knowledge for the Common Core standards in high school is here:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/note-on-courses-transitions/courses-transitions/

Finally, the Common Core is the Common CORE, not the Common Limit. There is nothing in the Common Core that says: here is what you should know and be able to do, AND NOT ONE THING MORE.

I'm the PP You are responding to. I LOVE Common Core standards. I think they are great.

I was just pointing out that the Common Core math standards are a basic standard-- they don't go farther than algebra. So yes, if they are ALL a child is exposed to in high school, it would not take the student through trig, precalc and calculus. But there's no reason those classes can't be offered! Students would likely take accelerated math classes in middle and high school to cover the Common Core requirements by 9th or 10th grade, which is easily doable as they aren't that hard for smart kids.

I looked at the standards for Geometry and probability, but they don't seem to me to include much calculus. WHich is a good thing. I don't think Calculus, trig and precalculus SHOULD be part of what all high schoolers are expected to master. I think algebra and statistics are plenty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the current standards in the state of MD, many kids who go to college need to take remedial math, so the standards they were exposed to didn't even prepare them for community college.

The Common Core standards for high school seem to be pretty basic -- algebra, statistics, geometry.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math

There's no trig, precal, calculus. I assume advanced students with a serious interest in STEM would be accelerated at some point to study precalculus and perhaps calculus before graduation, by taking AP classes. But there's no need for the majority of students to take those classes in high school -- not even for a career in business of finance. If they need the coursework they can take it in college.

You are mixing up standards, classes, and curricula.

If it's true that many high school graduates in Maryland have to take remedial math in college, that's not a standards issue -- that's an issue of what they learned in the classes they took.

Also, the Common Core is standards -- what students should know and be able to do -- not a series of classes. The standards include things students usually learn in algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and pre-calculus, as well as statistics and probability.

You can look up the content knowledge for the Common Core standards in high school is here:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/note-on-courses-transitions/courses-transitions/

Finally, the Common Core is the Common CORE, not the Common Limit. There is nothing in the Common Core that says: here is what you should know and be able to do, AND NOT ONE THING MORE.

I'm the PP You are responding to. I LOVE Common Core standards. I think they are great.

I was just pointing out that the Common Core math standards are a basic standard-- they don't go farther than algebra. So yes, if they are ALL a child is exposed to in high school, it would not take the student through trig, precalc and calculus. But there's no reason those classes can't be offered! Students would likely take accelerated math classes in middle and high school to cover the Common Core requirements by 9th or 10th grade, which is easily doable as they aren't that hard for smart kids.

I looked at the standards for Geometry and probability, but they don't seem to me to include much calculus. WHich is a good thing. I don't think Calculus, trig and precalculus SHOULD be part of what all high schoolers are expected to master. I think algebra and statistics are plenty.

A new PP chiming in. MCPS and the State of Maryland used to have a focus on churning out kids who were ready for highly technical jobs including in STEM fields. I have been in education for twenty years and I am now witnessing on the frontlines a movement by MCPS to spout in particular situations, "All MCPS is required to do is make sure kids meet State standards. Nothing more." When State standards align themselves with minimal preparedness for life after high school, I worry the net result is that opportunities for well paying jobs for a large segment of the Maryland population will be limited.

I dislike the alignment of the State of Maryland with the Common Core Standards on the principal the Common Core Standards are too low. I would support a movement to raise the Common Core Standards or at least raise the standards in education in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

So you think eventually MCPS will not offer any math beyond algebra?

[Anonymous]

Yeah -- you think MCPS is going to just drop its AP Courses? I highly doubt that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With the current standards in the state of MD, many kids who go to college need to take remedial math, so the standards they were exposed to didn't even prepare them for community college.

The Common Core standards for high school seem to be pretty basic -- algebra, statistics, geometry.

http://www.corestandards.org/Math

There's no trig, precal, calculus. I assume advanced students with a serious interest in STEM would be accelerated at some point to study precalculus and perhaps calculus before graduation, by taking AP classes. But there's no need for the majority of students to take those classes in high school -- not even for a career in business of finance. If they need the coursework they can take it in college.

You are mixing up standards, classes, and curricula.

If it's true that many high school graduates in Maryland have to take remedial math in college, that's not a standards issue -- that's an issue of what they learned in the classes they took.

Also, the Common Core is standards -- what students should know and be able to do -- not a series of classes. The standards include things students usually learn in algebra, geometry, trigonometry, and pre-calculus, as well as statistics and probability.

You can look up the content knowledge for the Common Core standards in high school is here:

http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/note-on-courses-transitions/courses-transitions/

Finally, the Common Core is the Common CORE, not the Common Limit. There is nothing in the Common Core that says: here is what you should know and be able to do, AND NOT ONE THING MORE.

I'm the PP You are responding to. I LOVE Common Core standards. I think they are great.

I was just pointing out that the Common Core math standards are a basic standard-- they don't go farther than algebra. So yes, if they are ALL a child is exposed to in high school, it would not take the student through trig, precalc and calculus. But there's no reason those classes can't be offered! Students would likely take accelerated math classes in middle and high school to cover the Common Core requirements by 9th or 10th grade, which is easily doable as they aren't that hard for smart kids.

I looked at the standards for Geometry and probability, but they don't seem to me to include much calculus. WHich is a good thing. I don't think Calculus, trig and precalculus SHOULD be part of what all high schoolers are expected to master. I think algebra and statistics are plenty.

A new PP chiming in. MCPS and the State of Maryland used to have a focus on churning out kids who were ready for highly technical jobs including in STEM fields. I have been in education for twenty years and I am now witnessing on the frontlines a movement by MCPS to spout in particular situations, "All MCPS is required to do is make sure kids meet State standards. Nothing more." When State standards align themselves with minimal preparedness for life after high school, I worry the net result is that opportunities for well paying jobs for a large segment of the Maryland population will be limited.

I dislike the alignment of the State of Maryland with the Common Core Standards on the principal the Common Core Standards are too low. I would support a movement to raise the Common Core Standards or at least raise the standards in education in Maryland.

Half the people think the standards are too low, half think they're too high. That leads me to believe that they're probably set at the right level.