ECNL moving to school year not calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would any parent want their kid to play 2 years down based on some of these scenarios being painted?
You definitely couldn't take a club or coach seriously who wanted that.

If MLSN goes to SY and an older player does bio-banding, he will be on the same team with some two years younger players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep talking about kids playing "down" nobody is going to play down. It puts the teams in more of what they are currently in school.

Most teams right now (take 2010) ... 60/70 percent of the team are Freshman. 40/30 percent of the team is in 8th grade. This team is considered u15 or called 2010 (depending on the league)

If they make the change ... 95+ of the teams will be in the same grade. Nobody will be playing "down" - or less than a few percentages.

The players that are August/Sept birthdays or frankly anyone from August-July could go and try and play up with the older group, but nobody can just go "play down".

I truly don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids playing down - especially in club soccer. They change will put 95%+ of all kids from the same grade on the same team.

Currently it is not close to that.

Most important - from my few - is it eliminates trapped 8th graders that don't get a club team when their teams are in 9th grade.

Current rules are BY

If things change to SY trapped players can play down an age group.

Pretty easy to understand by everyone but you because you're trying to use semantics because you're so stuck on SY.

Isn't everyone going to play in their SY age group, just not their former BY age group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which kids now have the advantage? Which months are we talking about?

Previously using calendar which birth years had the advantage?

"Depending on the date, RAE will be reduced for kids born from Jan-July and increased for those from August-December."

So now Jan-June has a sliding scale of age advantage and July-August has a sliding scale of disadvantage.

But the theory is with SY is players can play with kids in their grade at school that it will somehow make RAE go away?

Does not compute.

The theory is not that RAE goes away completely under SY or BY. One of the theories of the switch to BY was that it would combat RAE because it would be easier to see via the simplicity of "month X is later in the year than month Y." Once noticed, coaches were assumed to be able to take it into account for team placements and development tracks. The problem is that our youth system prioritizes winning too much from an early age, so coaches just don't care about mitigating RAE. What clearly wasn't anticipated by US Soccer, but was by many others, was that RAE would also get worse under BY due to choices by players in light of new social dynamics. By compounding the disadvantage of being the youngest with trapped player issues and playing above their social tier (especially at elementary school ages), more late birthdays quit early or never transitioned to club soccer. These late birthdays, and potential late bloomers, lost a reason (social relationships) which might have motivated them to have some resiliency while their growth caught up.

Under neither system does RAE go away, but it can get worse or better. While some may have honestly thought BY would make it better, it actually got worse. And now, many now think SY is actually the system which makes RAE better.

This is 100% accurate. USA Soccer has data that Sept-Dec birthday kids quit soccer under the new system at much higher rates than May-Aug birthday quit under the old system. This is bad for $$ *and* for the quality of soccer. It is really a no brainer. No one should be surprised that "I want to play with my school friends" matters when 5-10 year old kids are picking the sports they want to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which kids now have the advantage? Which months are we talking about?

Previously using calendar which birth years had the advantage?

"Depending on the date, RAE will be reduced for kids born from Jan-July and increased for those from August-December."

So now Jan-June has a sliding scale of age advantage and July-August has a sliding scale of disadvantage.

But the theory is with SY is players can play with kids in their grade at school that it will somehow make RAE go away?

Does not compute.

The theory is not that RAE goes away completely under SY or BY. One of the theories of the switch to BY was that it would combat RAE because it would be easier to see via the simplicity of "month X is later in the year than month Y." Once noticed, coaches were assumed to be able to take it into account for team placements and development tracks. The problem is that our youth system prioritizes winning too much from an early age, so coaches just don't care about mitigating RAE. What clearly wasn't anticipated by US Soccer, but was by many others, was that RAE would also get worse under BY due to choices by players in light of new social dynamics. By compounding the disadvantage of being the youngest with trapped player issues and playing above their social tier (especially at elementary school ages), more late birthdays quit early or never transitioned to club soccer. These late birthdays, and potential late bloomers, lost a reason (social relationships) which might have motivated them to have some resiliency while their growth caught up.

Under neither system does RAE go away, but it can get worse or better. While some may have honestly thought BY would make it better, it actually got worse. And now, many now think SY is actually the system which makes RAE better.

This is 100% accurate. USA Soccer has data that Sept-Dec birthday kids quit soccer under the new system at much higher rates than May-Aug birthday quit under the old system. This is bad for $$ *and* for the quality of soccer. It is really a no brainer. No one should be surprised that "I want to play with my school friends" matters when 5-10 year old kids are picking the sports they want to play.

The "data" you're referring to is questionable at best.

RAE is the same in both BY and SY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep talking about kids playing "down" nobody is going to play down. It puts the teams in more of what they are currently in school.

Most teams right now (take 2010) ... 60/70 percent of the team are Freshman. 40/30 percent of the team is in 8th grade. This team is considered u15 or called 2010 (depending on the league)

If they make the change ... 95+ of the teams will be in the same grade. Nobody will be playing "down" - or less than a few percentages.

The players that are August/Sept birthdays or frankly anyone from August-July could go and try and play up with the older group, but nobody can just go "play down".

I truly don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids playing down - especially in club soccer. They change will put 95%+ of all kids from the same grade on the same team.

Currently it is not close to that.

Most important - from my few - is it eliminates trapped 8th graders that don't get a club team when their teams are in 9th grade.

Current rules are BY

If things change to SY trapped players can play down an age group.

Pretty easy to understand by everyone but you because you're trying to use semantics because you're so stuck on SY.

Isn't everyone going to play in their SY age group, just not their former BY age group?

My kid is a G2010 trapped player and she doesn't want to play down with 2011s. She'd rather play up with 2009s at our club. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep talking about kids playing "down" nobody is going to play down. It puts the teams in more of what they are currently in school.

Most teams right now (take 2010) ... 60/70 percent of the team are Freshman. 40/30 percent of the team is in 8th grade. This team is considered u15 or called 2010 (depending on the league)

If they make the change ... 95+ of the teams will be in the same grade. Nobody will be playing "down" - or less than a few percentages.

The players that are August/Sept birthdays or frankly anyone from August-July could go and try and play up with the older group, but nobody can just go "play down".

I truly don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids playing down - especially in club soccer. They change will put 95%+ of all kids from the same grade on the same team.

Currently it is not close to that.

Most important - from my few - is it eliminates trapped 8th graders that don't get a club team when their teams are in 9th grade.

Current rules are BY

If things change to SY trapped players can play down an age group.

Pretty easy to understand by everyone but you because you're trying to use semantics because you're so stuck on SY.

Isn't everyone going to play in their SY age group, just not their former BY age group?

My kid is a G2010 trapped player and she doesn't want to play down with 2011s. She'd rather play up with 2009s at our club. Go figure.

Same..... are these rules going to be inforced or suggested? If it is the first, this is going to be really political, as per usual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which kids now have the advantage? Which months are we talking about?

Previously using calendar which birth years had the advantage?

"Depending on the date, RAE will be reduced for kids born from Jan-July and increased for those from August-December."

So now Jan-June has a sliding scale of age advantage and July-August has a sliding scale of disadvantage.

But the theory is with SY is players can play with kids in their grade at school that it will somehow make RAE go away?

Does not compute.

The theory is not that RAE goes away completely under SY or BY. One of the theories of the switch to BY was that it would combat RAE because it would be easier to see via the simplicity of "month X is later in the year than month Y." Once noticed, coaches were assumed to be able to take it into account for team placements and development tracks. The problem is that our youth system prioritizes winning too much from an early age, so coaches just don't care about mitigating RAE. What clearly wasn't anticipated by US Soccer, but was by many others, was that RAE would also get worse under BY due to choices by players in light of new social dynamics. By compounding the disadvantage of being the youngest with trapped player issues and playing above their social tier (especially at elementary school ages), more late birthdays quit early or never transitioned to club soccer. These late birthdays, and potential late bloomers, lost a reason (social relationships) which might have motivated them to have some resiliency while their growth caught up.

Under neither system does RAE go away, but it can get worse or better. While some may have honestly thought BY would make it better, it actually got worse. And now, many now think SY is actually the system which makes RAE better.

This is 100% accurate. USA Soccer has data that Sept-Dec birthday kids quit soccer under the new system at much higher rates than May-Aug birthday quit under the old system. This is bad for $$ *and* for the quality of soccer. It is really a no brainer. No one should be surprised that "I want to play with my school friends" matters when 5-10 year old kids are picking the sports they want to play.

The "data" you're referring to is questionable at best.

RAE is the same in both BY and SY.

Deny it all you want. The decision-makers won't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard on another board that there is discussion of a Jan-June & July-Dec cutoff and U11 wouldn’t start until U15. This would basically extend the 7v7 and 9v9 format which in turns provides more touches for players. This is what a lot of other countries do and I find it interesting but can’t see it being feasible in our country, it would be a huge change and a lot of clubs unfortunately focus too much on winning at the younger age.

You can say Talking Soccer, it's not forbidden . Agree with the follow on posts though that there would have to be some pretty big changes other than just the number of players. Even at U12 Pre-ECNL league the small 9v9 fields are ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep talking about kids playing "down" nobody is going to play down. It puts the teams in more of what they are currently in school.

Most teams right now (take 2010) ... 60/70 percent of the team are Freshman. 40/30 percent of the team is in 8th grade. This team is considered u15 or called 2010 (depending on the league)

If they make the change ... 95+ of the teams will be in the same grade. Nobody will be playing "down" - or less than a few percentages.

The players that are August/Sept birthdays or frankly anyone from August-July could go and try and play up with the older group, but nobody can just go "play down".

I truly don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids playing down - especially in club soccer. They change will put 95%+ of all kids from the same grade on the same team.

Currently it is not close to that.

Most important - from my few - is it eliminates trapped 8th graders that don't get a club team when their teams are in 9th grade.

Current rules are BY

If things change to SY trapped players can play down an age group.

Pretty easy to understand by everyone but you because you're trying to use semantics because you're so stuck on SY.

Isn't everyone going to play in their SY age group, just not their former BY age group?

My kid is a G2010 trapped player and she doesn't want to play down with 2011s. She'd rather play up with 2009s at our club. Go figure.

Same..... are these rules going to be inforced or suggested? If it is the first, this is going to be really political, as per usual.

No matter what happens, the rule will only be a maximum age (or grade) in each bracket. US Soccer would never, ever agree to a system that prevented playing up, as that's the pool our national team players are likely to come from. So it will be your club's decision, as always. And as always, there is a political element to club placement decisions. If a trapped 2010 would rather play with 2009's than 2011's, you just need to convince your club that you belong there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep talking about kids playing "down" nobody is going to play down. It puts the teams in more of what they are currently in school.

Most teams right now (take 2010) ... 60/70 percent of the team are Freshman. 40/30 percent of the team is in 8th grade. This team is considered u15 or called 2010 (depending on the league)

If they make the change ... 95+ of the teams will be in the same grade. Nobody will be playing "down" - or less than a few percentages.

The players that are August/Sept birthdays or frankly anyone from August-July could go and try and play up with the older group, but nobody can just go "play down".

I truly don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids playing down - especially in club soccer. They change will put 95%+ of all kids from the same grade on the same team.

Currently it is not close to that.

Most important - from my few - is it eliminates trapped 8th graders that don't get a club team when their teams are in 9th grade.

Current rules are BY

If things change to SY trapped players can play down an age group.

Pretty easy to understand by everyone but you because you're trying to use semantics because you're so stuck on SY.

Isn't everyone going to play in their SY age group, just not their former BY age group?

My kid is a G2010 trapped player and she doesn't want to play down with 2011s. She'd rather play up with 2009s at our club. Go figure.

If can double hop to the 09's she should! But, realistically, she can probably (club dependent perhaps) stick with the 10's and play one level up from where the new system would place her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which kids now have the advantage? Which months are we talking about?

Previously using calendar which birth years had the advantage?

"Depending on the date, RAE will be reduced for kids born from Jan-July and increased for those from August-December."

So now Jan-June has a sliding scale of age advantage and July-August has a sliding scale of disadvantage.

But the theory is with SY is players can play with kids in their grade at school that it will somehow make RAE go away?

Does not compute.

The theory is not that RAE goes away completely under SY or BY. One of the theories of the switch to BY was that it would combat RAE because it would be easier to see via the simplicity of "month X is later in the year than month Y." Once noticed, coaches were assumed to be able to take it into account for team placements and development tracks. The problem is that our youth system prioritizes winning too much from an early age, so coaches just don't care about mitigating RAE. What clearly wasn't anticipated by US Soccer, but was by many others, was that RAE would also get worse under BY due to choices by players in light of new social dynamics. By compounding the disadvantage of being the youngest with trapped player issues and playing above their social tier (especially at elementary school ages), more late birthdays quit early or never transitioned to club soccer. These late birthdays, and potential late bloomers, lost a reason (social relationships) which might have motivated them to have some resiliency while their growth caught up.

Under neither system does RAE go away, but it can get worse or better. While some may have honestly thought BY would make it better, it actually got worse. And now, many now think SY is actually the system which makes RAE better.

This is 100% accurate. USA Soccer has data that Sept-Dec birthday kids quit soccer under the new system at much higher rates than May-Aug birthday quit under the old system. This is bad for $$ *and* for the quality of soccer. It is really a no brainer. No one should be surprised that "I want to play with my school friends" matters when 5-10 year old kids are picking the sports they want to play.

The "data" you're referring to is questionable at best.

RAE is the same in both BY and SY.

The data is actually very clear according to USA Soccer. However, there are obviously so many complicating factors that causality is difficult to prove/know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which kids now have the advantage? Which months are we talking about?

Previously using calendar which birth years had the advantage?

"Depending on the date, RAE will be reduced for kids born from Jan-July and increased for those from August-December."

So now Jan-June has a sliding scale of age advantage and July-August has a sliding scale of disadvantage.

But the theory is with SY is players can play with kids in their grade at school that it will somehow make RAE go away?

Does not compute.

The theory is not that RAE goes away completely under SY or BY. One of the theories of the switch to BY was that it would combat RAE because it would be easier to see via the simplicity of "month X is later in the year than month Y." Once noticed, coaches were assumed to be able to take it into account for team placements and development tracks. The problem is that our youth system prioritizes winning too much from an early age, so coaches just don't care about mitigating RAE. What clearly wasn't anticipated by US Soccer, but was by many others, was that RAE would also get worse under BY due to choices by players in light of new social dynamics. By compounding the disadvantage of being the youngest with trapped player issues and playing above their social tier (especially at elementary school ages), more late birthdays quit early or never transitioned to club soccer. These late birthdays, and potential late bloomers, lost a reason (social relationships) which might have motivated them to have some resiliency while their growth caught up.

Under neither system does RAE go away, but it can get worse or better. While some may have honestly thought BY would make it better, it actually got worse. And now, many now think SY is actually the system which makes RAE better.

This is 100% accurate. USA Soccer has data that Sept-Dec birthday kids quit soccer under the new system at much higher rates than May-Aug birthday quit under the old system. This is bad for $$ *and* for the quality of soccer. It is really a no brainer. No one should be surprised that "I want to play with my school friends" matters when 5-10 year old kids are picking the sports they want to play.

The "data" you're referring to is questionable at best.

RAE is the same in both BY and SY.

RAE being the same in CY and SY and participation rates going down in CY is not in conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So which kids now have the advantage? Which months are we talking about?

Previously using calendar which birth years had the advantage?

"Depending on the date, RAE will be reduced for kids born from Jan-July and increased for those from August-December."

So now Jan-June has a sliding scale of age advantage and July-August has a sliding scale of disadvantage.

But the theory is with SY is players can play with kids in their grade at school that it will somehow make RAE go away?

Does not compute.

The theory is not that RAE goes away completely under SY or BY. One of the theories of the switch to BY was that it would combat RAE because it would be easier to see via the simplicity of "month X is later in the year than month Y." Once noticed, coaches were assumed to be able to take it into account for team placements and development tracks. The problem is that our youth system prioritizes winning too much from an early age, so coaches just don't care about mitigating RAE. What clearly wasn't anticipated by US Soccer, but was by many others, was that RAE would also get worse under BY due to choices by players in light of new social dynamics. By compounding the disadvantage of being the youngest with trapped player issues and playing above their social tier (especially at elementary school ages), more late birthdays quit early or never transitioned to club soccer. These late birthdays, and potential late bloomers, lost a reason (social relationships) which might have motivated them to have some resiliency while their growth caught up.

Under neither system does RAE go away, but it can get worse or better. While some may have honestly thought BY would make it better, it actually got worse. And now, many now think SY is actually the system which makes RAE better.

This is 100% accurate. USA Soccer has data that Sept-Dec birthday kids quit soccer under the new system at much higher rates than May-Aug birthday quit under the old system. This is bad for $$ *and* for the quality of soccer. It is really a no brainer. No one should be surprised that "I want to play with my school friends" matters when 5-10 year old kids are picking the sports they want to play.

The "data" you're referring to is questionable at best.

RAE is the same in both BY and SY.

RAE being the same in CY and SY and participation rates going down in CY is not in conflict.

Participation was going down in 2017 before switching to BY

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep talking about kids playing "down" nobody is going to play down. It puts the teams in more of what they are currently in school.

Most teams right now (take 2010) ... 60/70 percent of the team are Freshman. 40/30 percent of the team is in 8th grade. This team is considered u15 or called 2010 (depending on the league)

If they make the change ... 95+ of the teams will be in the same grade. Nobody will be playing "down" - or less than a few percentages.

The players that are August/Sept birthdays or frankly anyone from August-July could go and try and play up with the older group, but nobody can just go "play down".

I truly don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids playing down - especially in club soccer. They change will put 95%+ of all kids from the same grade on the same team.

Currently it is not close to that.

Most important - from my few - is it eliminates trapped 8th graders that don't get a club team when their teams are in 9th grade.

Current rules are BY

If things change to SY trapped players can play down an age group.

Pretty easy to understand by everyone but you because you're trying to use semantics because you're so stuck on SY.

Isn't everyone going to play in their SY age group, just not their former BY age group?

My kid is a G2010 trapped player and she doesn't want to play down with 2011s. She'd rather play up with 2009s at our club. Go figure.

If can double hop to the 09's she should! But, realistically, she can probably (club dependent perhaps) stick with the 10's and play one level up from where the new system would place her.

Most leagues won't allow you to play two games for two different age groups. Also, the point of a trapped player is to have playing time; therefore, playing with the 09s won't happen since they aren't playing or training.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people keep talking about kids playing "down" nobody is going to play down. It puts the teams in more of what they are currently in school.

Most teams right now (take 2010) ... 60/70 percent of the team are Freshman. 40/30 percent of the team is in 8th grade. This team is considered u15 or called 2010 (depending on the league)

If they make the change ... 95+ of the teams will be in the same grade. Nobody will be playing "down" - or less than a few percentages.

The players that are August/Sept birthdays or frankly anyone from August-July could go and try and play up with the older group, but nobody can just go "play down".

I truly don't understand why everyone keeps talking about kids playing down - especially in club soccer. They change will put 95%+ of all kids from the same grade on the same team.

Currently it is not close to that.

Most important - from my few - is it eliminates trapped 8th graders that don't get a club team when their teams are in 9th grade.

Current rules are BY

If things change to SY trapped players can play down an age group.

Pretty easy to understand by everyone but you because you're trying to use semantics because you're so stuck on SY.

Isn't everyone going to play in their SY age group, just not their former BY age group?

My kid is a G2010 trapped player and she doesn't want to play down with 2011s. She'd rather play up with 2009s at our club. Go figure.

If can double hop to the 09's she should! But, realistically, she can probably (club dependent perhaps) stick with the 10's and play one level up from where the new system would place her.

Most leagues won't allow you to play two games for two different age groups. Also, the point of a trapped player is to have playing time; therefore, playing with the 09s won't happen since they aren't playing or training.

Umm my trapped 2010 plays with the 2009s every couple of months.

Playing time is not an issue.