Catholics and the Pledge of Allegiance

[Anonymous]

So I was raised Catholic, am now non-practicing, child attends an episcopal school...My dad also pretty much non-practicing in that he's fed up with the Catholics, but he enjoys the Knights of Columbus social events (!) So I went to some event with my parents, and they said the pledge, then after it, a bunch of people say, "...with liberty and justice for all BORN AND UNBORN." I was like, WTF? So I asked my friend who is an expert at all things Catholic these days (and it's different from when I was a kid), she said the kids at the local Catholic school also say this and they're dragged down to DC each year on the Roe anniversary. Can't believe schoolchildren are being programmed like this. It's obviously part of their pro-life zealotry. It's like, culturally, I consider myself a Catholic but I just can't get over this obsession with one issue: abortion! And it's so inconsistent. Where is the church on the death penalty. And on caring for the poor? It's all taken a backseat to abortion. So disappointed with the church.

Anyone else heard of this born and unborn business? What do you think?

[Anonymous]

The pledge has not been altered at my daughter's catholic school. It is an excused absence if the kids at the school miss school in order to participate in the march for life that happens every year on Jan. 22nd, the anniversary of the SCOTUS' decision Roe v. Wade. Attendance at the march is not mandatory. The church opposes the death penalty officially. And our school, at least, is FAR more involved with service, care for others, and other catholic social teachings then it is in promoting an opposition to abortion. We have several food drives, each class has its own service project starting in kindergarten, before Christmas each year there is a giving mass where the children bring small presents for one our outreach groups to give to children of struggling families, every year there is a giving tree in the church and many parish families choose a child close in age to their child to purchase a gift for with their own families. I personally love the service projects and the giving mass and the food drives. It makes for more to remember, but it is nice to hear your kid remind you that they need some change for the penny drive instead of that they need to newest wii game.

And our school handbook is very clear that the school is a catholic school where the catholic religion will be taught, the church's position will be presented and no alternative positions will be offered in school.

I think it varies from parish to parish. I have certainly belonged to far more conservative parishes in the past. I also think it depends on the leadership at the parish.

[Anonymous]

Liberty for a fetus? What exactly would that mean?

Can a fetus apply for emancipation? Sue its mother for fetal distress? Enter into a book contract?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I was raised Catholic, am now non-practicing, child attends an episcopal school...My dad also pretty much non-practicing in that he's fed up with the Catholics, but he enjoys the Knights of Columbus social events (!) So I went to some event with my parents, and they said the pledge, then after it, a bunch of people say, "...with liberty and justice for all BORN AND UNBORN." I was like, WTF? So I asked my friend who is an expert at all things Catholic these days (and it's different from when I was a kid), she said the kids at the local Catholic school also say this and they're dragged down to DC each year on the Roe anniversary. Can't believe schoolchildren are being programmed like this. It's obviously part of their pro-life zealotry. It's like, culturally, I consider myself a Catholic but I just can't get over this obsession with one issue: abortion! And it's so inconsistent. Where is the church on the death penalty. And on caring for the poor? It's all taken a backseat to abortion. So disappointed with the church.

Anyone else heard of this born and unborn business? What do you think?

I am ex-Catholic and pro-choice. The pledge thing does sound scary. But regarding some other comments above, the Catholic Church is against the death penalty and does advocate or the poor. Catholic Charities is one of the largest organizations of its kind in the country. That doesn't justify this pledge thing, but there is some consistency.

[Anonymous]

I am a practicing Catholic, and I have never heard the pledge said that way. I am reasonably confident this was due to the specific parish's leadership, and not a "Catholic" as in "universal" thing at all.

[Anonymous]

I am an atheist, anti-death penalty, pro-life. OP, Catholics have every right to their opinions. The pro-lifers are not going away.

[Anonymous]

My kids go to catholic school and i've never heard such a thing. I'm like prior poster - there are a lot of outreach and community support activities at the school and it is a very positive experience. My kids have never come home talking about the "unborn". .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist, anti-death penalty, pro-life. OP, Catholics have every right to their opinions. The pro-lifers are not going away.

Congratulations. Who said they didn't have a right to their opinions? Not me. I'm speaking as an ex-Catholic who is shocked by the fanaticism that leads them to muck with the pledge (not that it wasn't mucked with already by inserting the phrase "under God" in the 50s). It's called a discussion -- not a call for censorship.

Also, I googled the "born and unborn" pledge thing. It's become popular among pro-life groups (the Knights, being Catholic, is one.) I'm surprised the kids say it at school though, that surprised me.

[Anonymous]

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America,
because of the Republic for which it stands,
and that Republic's Constitution,
which assures
freedom of speech and assembly,
and freedom from state-sponsored religion,
and liberty and justice for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist, anti-death penalty, pro-life. OP, Catholics have every right to their opinions. The pro-lifers are not going away.

As an atheist, how do you justify your "pro-life" position? (not that I'm anti-life, by any means - I am pro-choice.) Do you believe life begins at conception just as the Catholics do? And if that's the case, how do you define life? when a soul enters the body - again, what Catholics believe

Please do explain. I am fascinated by your complex nature.

[Anonymous]

Actually this does not appear to be an exclusively Catholic movement as the OP indicates.

On the website NATIONAL AMERICAN HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL AND CHRISTIAN PATRIOTS FOR LIFE JOINT COOPERATIVE EDUCATION PROJECT

http://www.cpforlife.org/id74.htm

It is identified as a Pro-Life Movement project - which the Roman Catholic Church of course considers itself to be a member, but not the whole. Christian encompasses many different mainstream, and not so mainstream, religions. And the National American Holocaust Memorial I would assume (don't know definitively) includes members of both the Jewish as well as Christian faiths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America,
because of the Republic for which it stands,
and that Republic's Constitution,
which assures
freedom of speech and assembly,
and freedom from state-sponsored religion,
and liberty and justice for all.

I like that, but you should add one nation, indivisible somewhere.

[Anonymous]

I would probably have a cow if that was said in my child's school. I am pro-choice(ish)*, but I don't think abortion is really something that should be addressed until you have teenagers. When young children are praying for the born and unborn, they are being said to same something they have no real understanding or comprehension of.

*Abortion isn't for me, and I believe it should always be a last resort. I certainly wouldn't advocate abortion as birth control. I however wouldn't ever want to take away the choice from other women.