How much is a basement worth?

[Anonymous]

I am doing my best to generate a list of comps to support an upcoming appraisal for a refi and am stuck on how to factor in the below-grade square footage (i.e., my finished basement with full BA and can be considered an additional bedroom). Most houses of similar size in my neighborhood (northern part of Shaw) have slightly higher square footage (per DC OTR listings) however they do not have basements. If I (or more importantly, the appraiser) do a straight $/sq foot (as provided by DC OTR) calculation, I feel like my house will be significantly undervalued compared to the available comps.

Can anyone provide insight as to how an appraiser is likely to consider a finished basement in the final valuation?

When determining which comps I will recommend that the appraiser consider, would it be appropriate to include my basement square footage in the total square footage?

Thanks a bunch!
M

[Anonymous]

When we had our place appraised, I was told that they factor in the total square footage of the basement at half the value of above-grade sq. footage.

[Anonymous]

There is no answer. I've seen them all over the place.

We recently had an appraisal completed and it was completely piss-poor. (My father owns an appraisal business, so I'm remarkably well-informed about appraisals.) In our case, the appraiser valued basements solely on the total square footage, without regard to usability or whether the space was finished. There were no adjustments for height, etc.

Needless to say, my father's contacts in Wells Fargo corporate headquarters (he's been in the business a while) got involved and the appraiser came back out again. They conceded that they'd never seen such a bad appraisal. (There were copious other problems.) Heads eventually rolled.

Sadly, had I not had very high-level contacts, nothing would have changed. The low-level grunts at Wells were insistent that there was nothing they could do; their hands were tied with recent legislation. (This is not accurate as the banks communicate with the appraisers ALL of the time.)

The point of this anecdote is that you should make sure you have your comps in line before he gets there. Include a range of properties, even suggesting some choice on his part, bracketing what you think is the appropriate value.

Since I have no qualms about revealing his name, the appraiser was by Lloyd Appraisal Services.

Note that your bank will blindly select an appraiser. In the case of Wells, their sub-company Rels handles hiring appraisers for firewall purposes. (Again, the firewall doesn't work, but anyway...)

[Anonymous]

Usually 1/2 value psf of the above-grade. However, with a legal bedroom and full bath, you might be able to bump that a little bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Usually 1/2 value psf of the above-grade. However, with a legal bedroom and full bath, you might be able to bump that a little bit.

This doesn't help, since above-grade values are also all over the place. The last two I've seen in DMV were 90 psf and 150 psf. That difference swamps any commonality.

[Anonymous]

What a great and informative post! It's always satisfying to see someone set something straight, name names and also provide some valuable info. I have reading the thread about the appraiser in Arlington who did a drive-by or the fleecing post about contractors, estimates, etc. It's just nice to have more information about things, so thanks!

Anonymous wrote:There is no answer. I've seen them all over the place.

We recently had an appraisal completed and it was completely piss-poor. (My father owns an appraisal business, so I'm remarkably well-informed about appraisals.) In our case, the appraiser valued basements solely on the total square footage, without regard to usability or whether the space was finished. There were no adjustments for height, etc.

Needless to say, my father's contacts in Wells Fargo corporate headquarters (he's been in the business a while) got involved and the appraiser came back out again. They conceded that they'd never seen such a bad appraisal. (There were copious other problems.) Heads eventually rolled.

Sadly, had I not had very high-level contacts, nothing would have changed. The low-level grunts at Wells were insistent that there was nothing they could do; their hands were tied with recent legislation. (This is not accurate as the banks communicate with the appraisers ALL of the time.)

The point of this anecdote is that you should make sure you have your comps in line before he gets there. Include a range of properties, even suggesting some choice on his part, bracketing what you think is the appropriate value.

Since I have no qualms about revealing his name, the appraiser was by Lloyd Appraisal Services.

Note that your bank will blindly select an appraiser. In the case of Wells, their sub-company Rels handles hiring appraisers for firewall purposes. (Again, the firewall doesn't work, but anyway...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually 1/2 value psf of the above-grade. However, with a legal bedroom and full bath, you might be able to bump that a little bit.

This doesn't help, since above-grade values are also all over the place. The last two I've seen in DMV were 90 psf and 150 psf. That difference swamps any commonality.

Sure prices are all over the place in the DMV area, but for your neighborhood or street they should be pretty much the same adjusted for age, condition, etc. If your neighbors house sold for $90 psf, but it hasn't been updated in 20 years, whereas you have a new kitchen, you might be 20% higher, or $108 psf. And maybe you're home is a corner, so add another 10%. That is how appraisers work, making adjustments for date of sale, condition, location, etc. Your basement is then probably 1/2 or a little more than that adjusted number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually 1/2 value psf of the above-grade. However, with a legal bedroom and full bath, you might be able to bump that a little bit.

This doesn't help, since above-grade values are also all over the place. The last two I've seen in DMV were 90 psf and 150 psf. That difference swamps any commonality.

Sure prices are all over the place in the DMV area, but for your neighborhood or street they should be pretty much the same adjusted for age, condition, etc. If your neighbors house sold for $90 psf, but it hasn't been updated in 20 years, whereas you have a new kitchen, you might be 20% higher, or $108 psf. And maybe you're home is a corner, so add another 10%. That is how appraisers work, making adjustments for date of sale, condition, location, etc. Your basement is then probably 1/2 or a little more than that adjusted number.

NP here, shouldn't lot size have some impact as well? Say a 12K sq. ft. lot vs. an 8K sq. ft. lot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually 1/2 value psf of the above-grade. However, with a legal bedroom and full bath, you might be able to bump that a little bit.

This doesn't help, since above-grade values are also all over the place. The last two I've seen in DMV were 90 psf and 150 psf. That difference swamps any commonality.

Sure prices are all over the place in the DMV area, but for your neighborhood or street they should be pretty much the same adjusted for age, condition, etc. If your neighbors house sold for $90 psf, but it hasn't been updated in 20 years, whereas you have a new kitchen, you might be 20% higher, or $108 psf. And maybe you're home is a corner, so add another 10%. That is how appraisers work, making adjustments for date of sale, condition, location, etc. Your basement is then probably 1/2 or a little more than that adjusted number.

This is how it should be, I agree. Again, my father has an appraisal business. But my home was priced at $90 psf and my friends, two week's later, on Western Avenue in Maryland, was $150. We are less than 1.5 miles apart. My home is 1941, his is 1948. The point remains: there is a lot of idiosyncrasy with appraisers, and that swamps what "should be." Our home was updated in 2011. (Like I said before, it was the worst appraisal several people at Wells said they'd ever seen. I cannot imagine it's that uncommon to see great variation in quality.)

[Anonymous]

We had an appraisal for a refi that came in insanely low. The comps were not from our neighborhood, even though actual comps within a few blocks were available. The appraiser miscounted the above-grade bedrooms. She counted nothing for the completely finished and walkout basement, including the legal in-law apartment.

The mortgage company acknowledged that it was screwed up, but would only "appeal" the appraisal.

[Anonymous]

Yup. And the "appeal" means a "request" that the appraiser reconsider. Some will. Some won't.

They cannot actually throw out the appraisal.

In my case, the processors in Minnesota started seeing a bunch of Manhattan people digging in their files and realized their a$$es were on the line. They immediately changed their tune when dealing with me. (At one point, they were calling me multiple times a day, including to let me know that they were leaving for the weekend and that they were still waiting on the revised numbers. I told them that I expected they stay and they replied "I understand." They stayed. Such a far cry from the way I was treated before high-level people got involved and an absolute indictment of the pay system for processors.)

Minnesota then "strongly requested" the appraiser go back out and correct his mistakes, which were cataloged (including far/old comps, photos from another house, internal inconsistencies with numbers used, fireplaces counting for nothing for me, but a fence in a comp counting for 30k, etc.). The incompetent boob came in exactly 1k over purchase price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yup. And the "appeal" means a "request" that the appraiser reconsider. Some will. Some won't.

They cannot actually throw out the appraisal.

In my case, the processors in Minnesota started seeing a bunch of Manhattan people digging in their files and realized their a$$es were on the line. They immediately changed their tune when dealing with me. (At one point, they were calling me multiple times a day, including to let me know that they were leaving for the weekend and that they were still waiting on the revised numbers. I told them that I expected they stay and they replied "I understand." They stayed. Such a far cry from the way I was treated before high-level people got involved and an absolute indictment of the pay system for processors.)

Minnesota then "strongly requested" the appraiser go back out and correct his mistakes, which were cataloged (including far/old comps, photos from another house, internal inconsistencies with numbers used, fireplaces counting for nothing for me, but a fence in a comp counting for 30k, etc.). The incompetent boob came in exactly 1k over purchase price.

What kind of appraisal gives value to a fence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yup. And the "appeal" means a "request" that the appraiser reconsider. Some will. Some won't.

They cannot actually throw out the appraisal.

In my case, the processors in Minnesota started seeing a bunch of Manhattan people digging in their files and realized their a$$es were on the line. They immediately changed their tune when dealing with me. (At one point, they were calling me multiple times a day, including to let me know that they were leaving for the weekend and that they were still waiting on the revised numbers. I told them that I expected they stay and they replied "I understand." They stayed. Such a far cry from the way I was treated before high-level people got involved and an absolute indictment of the pay system for processors.)

Minnesota then "strongly requested" the appraiser go back out and correct his mistakes, which were cataloged (including far/old comps, photos from another house, internal inconsistencies with numbers used, fireplaces counting for nothing for me, but a fence in a comp counting for 30k, etc.). The incompetent boob came in exactly 1k over purchase price.

What kind of appraisal gives value to a fence?

Let alone 30k. A few thousand for a fence is fine. Patios too. But burying the lede behind weird adjustments is never okay. Between random valuations for fences, patios, fireplaces and basements, there was no way to compare the values. It was a terrible appraisal. Amateurish, except for it takes more than an amateur to do a job that poorly. I had like 20 bullet-points of problems. (Again, I was not just some whiny homeowner. I know the appraisal business and I had professionals look at the appraisal and help me explain the issues. And it would have all been for nothing had a big-wig not gotten involved.)

[Anonymous]

When I tried to refinance my home a couple of months ago, the appraiser gave no value to unfinished basement space, but valued the bathroom/bedroom comparably to above ground space.

[Anonymous]

OP here - Thanks for the very informative responses/discussion!