Are there such things as Christians who don't believe...
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Anonymous
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the Bible is the inerrant word of God...
homosexually in a committed relationship is not a sin... non-believers will not go to hell... I've been a Christian my whole adult life and I struggle with these issues. If I don't believe in the first and third am I not really a Christian? If non-believer won't go to hell then why did we need Jesus to die and "save" us? If I don't believe this my life will crumble (home, work, family all are Christian). The fall-out will be huge and painful. Just venting... I don't have anyone safe in my life to say these things to. |
Anonymous
| OP, these issues have been on my mind a lot lately, as I have observed the definition of "Christian" changing. I was at a church bible study recently where half the group said they do not believe you have to believe Christ was the son of God and died to save our sins to be a "devout Christian." When I was growing up as a pastor's child, this was the definition of "Christian." But to the bible-study members, the definition feels "exclusionary" and and even mean-spirited. I can see that. Borrowing the words from Nichole Nordeman's song ("What If"), some believe that Jesus is "just another nice guy" who "takes His place in history with all the prophets and the kings who taught us love and came in peace... but then the story ends. I could talk about this topic at some length -- and probably get myself in big trouble on this site because I'm not the most articulate or precise -- but I will say this: I try to leave the judgment to God and not opine on who will be in heaven. I've had my own doubts, and at times, have felt zero connection to anything spiritual. But at the core and putting aside "theology" or how people interpret the Bible, to me being a Christian is about a relationship -- a real, current, "not-the-end-of-the-story" relationship with Jesus. |
Anonymous
Are you asking if there are Christians who don't believe that non-believers will not go to hell, or don't believe that homosexuality is not a sin? That is that they believe that non-believers will go to hell, and homosexuality is a sin? Or are you asking the opposite? Either way, the answer is yes. There are Christians (e.g. many Baptists) who believe that the Bible is inerrant, that homosexuality is any context is a sin, and that everyone who is not a believer will go to hell. There are also Christians (e.g. most Episcopalians) who believe that Bible is inspired but not inerrant or literally true, that ordain and marry homosexuals, and that believe various things about hell. It might make sense for you to explore other Christian denominations, to learn about other ways to interpret the Bible, and other kinds of Christian lives and communities that might be a better fit for your beliefs. |
Anonymous
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Many Christian religions do not believe the Bible is literal (including Catholics even).
Some Christian religions perform gay weddings, so clearly they're ok with the concept of committed homosexual relationships. (Episcopalians, Lutherans and UCC among the most mainstream/prominent). Not all Christian's believe in a literal hell--some view hell as an absence of God/afterlife. Basically, your "punishment" is that your soul ceases to exist, not that you're sent to some fiery pit for eternity. As for whether or not any Christians believe that non-beievers go to heaven, I'll just quote CS Lewis for you: Though all salvation is through Jesus, we need not conclude that He cannot save those who have not explicitly accepted Him in this life. And it should (at least in my judgment) be made clear that we are not pronouncing all other religions to be totally false, but rather saying that in Christ whatever is true in all religions is consummated and perfected. |
Anonymous
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OP here. Great replies. I go to a church that is pretty fundamental. I have a hard time looking at the Bible and not seeing it as literal, but I don't agree with some of it and can't understand a loving creator behaving the way some of the Bible says he does. I go from one issue down to the next and end up with wondering if I really believe in God at all. I know, I'm a mess. I appreciate that these responses have been genuine. I need genuine in my life and sometimes it's hard to find unless someone is anonymous (sad, I think).
@10:25 post- Great quote by Lewis. This is how I imagine it should be. I think I need to read a book of his. He seemed to be so intelligent but thoughtful and spiritual. That's lacking in the fundamental Christian leadership right now. |
Anonymous
| OP you don't sound like a mess at all. |
Anonymous
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OP, see if this helps you. From the Bible and said by Jesus Christ:
“When the Son of Man comes in all His glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory. All the nations will be assembled before him and he will separate men from one another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats. He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left. Then the King shall say to those on his right hand: ‘Come you whom my Father has blessed, take for your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was a stranger and you made me welcome. I was thirsty and you gave me drink; I was a stranger and you made me welcome; naked and you clothed me; sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me.’ Then the virtuous will say to him in reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you; or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you hungry and feed you; or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome; naked and clothe you; sick or in prison and go to see you?’ And the King will answer, ‘I tell you solemnly, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me.’ Next he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, for when I was hungry you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me.’ Then it will be their turn to ask, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty; a stranger or naked, sick or in prison, and not come to your help?’ Then he will answer, “I tell you solemnly, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me.” And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life.” Matthew 25 (verses 31-46) |
Anonymous
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Bible inerrant word of God
At one time the bible said Moses had horns and some old churches in Europe have statues of Moses with horns Later the ancient hebrew word was translated as halo Ancient hebrew only has consonants. |
Anonymous
| Episcopalians. |
Anonymous
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The truth is that all denominations - including evangelicals - emphasize certain aspects of the Bible more than others. The selectivity depends on the thrust of their overall message.
Of course, the more fundamentalist believers feel that their message is only one that matters. In days gone by, some of these very same fundamentalist groups defended racism as being decreed by the Bible. Follow the teachings of Jesus in their entirety - not emphasizing certain things he said at the exclusion of others. |
Anonymous
| Yes, I am one. |
Anonymous
I'm one. I tend to focus on the New Testament rather than the Old, and this strongly influences my beliefs on the three items you mention. For example, Jesus said it's not necessary to follow dietary rules from the Old Testament, instead what matters is what you think and say (what comes out of your mouth not what you put in it), et cetera. WRT homosexuality, Jesus never said anything about it one way or another. The Apostle Paul did weigh in on homosexuality, but Paul isn't Jesus and I don't regard what he says as having the same status. I'm not GLBT myself but I take the lack of recorded pronouncements from Jesus as an opening to tolerance. WRT nonbelievers going to hell, I like what C.S. Lewis said on the subject (and on other subjects) although, like Lewis, I don't think we can know what happens in the afterlife until we get there. So for the first two on your list, check me off as following Jesus rather than the Old Testament, and this basically means you can check me off for the first two items. Put me down as still ignorant on the third. I'm currently attending an Episcopal church, which ordains gay priests, although I have attended liberal Presbyterian churches (one that blessed gay marriages) in the past. |
Anonymous
+1. OP, regarding the Bible being the word of God -- how about that it is, yes, but humans are simply not capable in this life of understanding the nuances, stories, and meaning behind all of it. So some cling to the idea that it must be read literally, word for word, even though those people are probably the least capable of understanding it in its entirety. |
Anonymous
| Re non-believers maybe it is because the majority are believers. Re the first one, do you not ever wonder why most major religions are misogynistic? Would a loving God really make one of His creatures subservient to another? |
Anonymous
Indeed. Try an episcopalian church. |